Obama actually making some sense on education

So Obama says that the schools don't need more money, encourages teacher evaluations and encourages the idea of INDEPENDENT charter schools and you say he's being big government?!

I'm not saying he is going to follow through with any of these ideas but they all sound like reasonable solutions to our education problems but you guys are ridiculing him.

I know we're all supposed to hate the guy but lets not let our partisan hatred for Obama get in the way of recognizing that he actually had some good ideas.
 
Good ideas aren't relative to the discussion. There are a lot of good ideas out there, but in practice any related to giving the State more power over education will only fuck it up more. The only way to fix education is to get the government out of it completely.
 
As anti-statists, even if we agree that children need to be in school longer, the solution shouldn't ever be to have that decision handed down from the government. As someone mentioned earlier the public school system is one of indoctrination.

As for unions, there is no doubt that they are a problem. There was actually a child predator who taught at my high school, transferred from another high school for having an affair with an underage girl. They couldn't even fire him, the best they could do was transfer him. He ended up at my high school where he was the coach of the girl's basketball team, volleyball team, and softball team. Neat eh?
 
So Obama says that the schools don't need more money, encourages teacher evaluations and encourages the idea of INDEPENDENT charter schools and you say he's being big government?!

I'm not saying he is going to follow through with any of these ideas but they all sound like reasonable solutions to our education problems but you guys are ridiculing him.

I know we're all supposed to hate the guy but lets not let our partisan hatred for Obama get in the way of recognizing that he actually had some good ideas.

if you can't tell he is trying to win some hearts over before elections

all of a sudden he signs off on small business loans bill then pitching this save the kids education idea

he will say whatever he needs to in hopes of getting some pull since his current ratings are in the shitter.

apparently to some (including yourself) it must be working in some fashion.
 
He only has good ideas if you believe government is solution. I look at parts of this thread in total disbelief and really do not understand why some people are here. Conservatives, myself and Ron Paul included have been for eliminating the Department of Education. We do not need our children in indoctrination schools any longer than what they already are.

Encourage homeschooling and exempt people from school tax if you send your child to private school or home school. In fact if you do not have children you should not be forced to pay for school taxes at all. This country is putting people out of their homes including the elderly because of outrageous school taxes. Leave these decisions to local jurisdications.

You like Obama's school policies, then fine. Don't force your view and his shit on the rest of us or my children. Contribute to your own dam private school system that has all the bells and whistles you want it to have. You pay for it then.
 
Someone mentioned that 80% of us is determined by genes. There are a lot of neurologists that think 80% is determined by our environment. I am not defending socialism in case some one took it the wrong way.

I recommend listening to Stefan Moleneux's Bomb in the Brain series.
 
He only has good ideas if you believe government is solution. I look at parts of this thread in total disbelief and really do not understand why some people are here. Conservatives, myself and Ron Paul included have been for eliminating the Department of Education. We do not need our children in indoctrination schools any longer than what they already are.

Encourage homeschooling and exempt people from school tax if you send your child to private school or home school. In fact if you do not have children you should not be forced to pay for school taxes at all. This country is putting people out of their homes including the elderly because of outrageous school taxes. Leave these decisions to local jurisdications.

You like Obama's school policies, then fine. Don't force your view and his shit on the rest of us or my children. Contribute to your own dam private school system that has all the bells and whistles you want it to have. You pay for it then.



I'm with you. As people who love Liberty, there is no room for the idea of State schools. The public school system is the first real chance that Statists have to create the slaves of the next generation. I take this issue as one of the non-negotiables of the Liberty movement.
 
i'm with you. As people who love liberty, there is no room for the idea of state schools. The public school system is the first real chance that statists have to create the slaves of the next generation. I take this issue as one of the non-negotiables of the liberty movement.


+1000
 
The push for charter schools is simply because they don't offer the same kinds of contracts to teachers and tenure style situations that will allow them to keep their jobs with a sub-par teaching performance. It's basically and end-around to deal with the unions. They are still state funded and still teach kids in exactly the same way (most times) and still have the same administrative overhead costs if not more. The union situation needs to be dealt with directly and NCLB does nothing other than add more paperwork and costs to it.

Yes, public schools are intentionally designed to brainwash children. They are also designed to make cookie cutter graduates that don't think any more than they have to in order to work low wage jobs. Those that get out with a decent education and proper problem solving skills are the exception rather than the rule and parents concerned with their kids education will deal with that themselves. Texas just moved to a 4x4 system, 4 years each of english, math, science, and civics in high school, which is further away from allowing for specialization even in the junior and senior years which is what the other world systems do that absolutely blow us out of the water, but you do have to remember that when you see test scores comparing countries most others don't test all of their students at the high school level but rather only those that are into the university track like Japan and Germany's systems make pretty obvious.

There have not been any studies that have definitively put IQ anywhere outside of a 50/50 nature/nurture split over the years, but some have speculated in both directions. There is always something to be said for exposure to learning materials growing up in the home which happens a lot more with intelligent parents... and there are plenty of studies that show the huge impact it makes on IQ tests. IQ as a trait is a load of BS though and hopefully people don't put too much stock into that as something set in stone from youth or birth or even high school graduation.

And even being a public school teacher with a masters degree dealing with such, I still push for home schooling or at the very least returning ALL control of the schools to the local level so parents have an actual say in their child's education and not the one hundreds of miles away from them.
 
So Obama's solution for poor student performance is to not throw more money at the problem but to imprison children for one month longer? And how, pray tell, does he plan to PAY for that extra month?????

My solution for poor student performance is to say, "Fuck student performance" and free the children. Kids don't need to be in the schools more. They need to be in the schools less. In fact, they need to be out of the schools entirely because the schools peddle the precise opposite of education: ignorance, apathy, collectivism, conformity, blind obedience to authority, and 12+ years of child abuse. Obama wants more time allocated for systematic child abuse. How sensible.
 
Arggggg

HOLY S*&T PEOPLE!

THE LAST, I mean the absolute LAST thing government should be involved in is education.

The public schools have two areas in which they excel: crushing the natural desire to learn in children and inculcating resigned obedience to government authority. Everything else they do they SUCK at.

The cost is staggering because of waste.

The curriculum is totally non-responsive to the needs of the market and the desires of the customers.

They are flash points for the clash of different social, moral, and religious values.

They teach propaganda as fact.

They are tools of the state used to perpetuate and glorify the state.

They are bad in almost every way I can think of.

About the only thing good about them is they teach some kids to rebel and figure out how to avoid authority.

Government at every level should be prohibited by the Constitution from having anything whatsoever to do with education.
 
"We can no longer afford an academic calendar designed when America was a nation of farmers who needed their children at home plowing the land at the end of each day,"

And why Obama is this no longer a nation of farmers. Would that be a bad thing? Perhaps to a government that does not believe in self-sustenance.

Why Obama would you like for a longer school day. So that the government will spend more time with children than their parents?

After all. You have already engineered an economy in which it takes two incomes to be solvent thereby diminishing the time that a family has to bond with each other.

Sorry. Not buying it. FUCK OFF!
 
HOLY S*&T PEOPLE!

THE LAST, I mean the absolute LAST thing government should be involved in is education.

The public schools have two areas in which they excel: crushing the natural desire to learn in children and inculcating resigned obedience to government authority. Everything else they do they SUCK at.

The cost is staggering because of waste.

The curriculum is totally non-responsive to the needs of the market and the desires of the customers.

They are flash points for the clash of different social, moral, and religious values.

They teach propaganda as fact.

They are tools of the state used to perpetuate and glorify the state.

They are bad in almost every way I can think of.

About the only thing good about them is they teach some kids to rebel and figure out how to avoid authority.

Government at every level should be prohibited by the Constitution from having anything whatsoever to do with education.

^^^ This.

Then the last. Bolded. Which it is. The power is NOT enumerated.
 
The public schools have two areas in which they excel: crushing the natural desire to learn in children and inculcating resigned obedience to government authority. Everything else they do they SUCK at.

Government at every level should be prohibited by the Constitution from having anything whatsoever to do with education.

Oh weeping Jesus that ^^^^^ +100000000

That is what they are designed to do and they do an excellent job at it.

That's just one of the reasons why I'm a "conspiracy theorist".

Most people think government sucks because they look at things from a common sense perspective. Therefore government "missteps" can be chalked up to institutional foolishness and greedy, stupid, drunk politicians.

But when you look at it from "increase it's power, enslave the masses, razor wire the death camps" angle, government displays a ruthless, clockwork, precise success level. They know exactly what they are doing and they are goddamn good at it.

From that angle, gun and drug running out of the White House, targeted assassinations of US citizens, 9/11 and all the rest of it, starts making a lot more sense.

Back on topic, was just reading a comment about literature by Stephen King (yah, I know, the irony) that cited a study that showed once having left high school 49 percent never pick up another book again. That's over a twenty year period.

College grads, even worse, 52 percent.
 
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...was just reading a comment about literature by Stephen King (yah, I know, the irony) that cited a study that showed once having left high school 49 percent never pick up another book again. That's over a twenty year period.

College grads, even worse, 52 percent.

This is not surprising, given that forcing people to read literature on the threat of an exam is hardly going to make them love literature more. I loved to read as a child but after majoring in literature in college, it took me three years to pick up a book again. I still don't like it as much as I used to.
 
This is not surprising, given that forcing people to read literature on the threat of an exam is hardly going to make them love literature more. I loved to read as a child but after majoring in literature in college, it took me three years to pick up a book again. I still don't like it as much as I used to.

You're about the millionth person I've heard that from.

No way to more quickly kill the love of reading than 12 or 16 years or more in the education gulag. Don't want anybody cracking open dangerous or subversive books or documents now do we?

I have never regretted quitting at 16 and getting the hell out.
 
I said it once and I'll say it again. I am a teacher and being in front of these students all day, day in and day out, I have learned a lot about the school system. The problem goes so much deeper than most people think. It is true that a few bad teachers, unions, government bureaucrats making decisions about education that have never taught and don't even know the real problems are some of the reasons, but there is something much deeper at fault. By the way, Unions for teachers are not as strong everywhere as you might think. Unions in MS where I live is almost none existant. The thing is, even if you removed all of these factors, our schools would still fail. As long as we live in a welfare state our schools will fail. Most people in America these days believes that they are entitled to something. When it comes to education, most students have the idea that they will just be handed an education and that they do not have to work for it. It is so sad being a teacher to see the utter laziness of most of my students. None of them want to work for it anymore. Then to make it worse parents, the government, administrators, college education professors, and the American public in general just look for other reasons for student failure than students. They say the teacher has failed. I have been told in college by my education professors that if a student fails, it is the teachers fault. The idea that a teacher should be rated or judged based on a students success is insane because I have seen great teachers get low performing students and be called a bad teacher because they couldn't perform a miracle. Then they say that the schools have failed. It is true that there are bad teachers and schools, but when the entire nation fails then you know that is not the big answer. No one is willing to point the finger at the real problem. No one respects an education anymore. It is seen as a right. Therefore, all the student should have to do is just sit there and it will be feed to them. I once had about 40 kids failing my class; mostly due to just not turning in work (in most cases the work was done in class and turned in the next day). My principle took me into her office and said that if that many students were failing, then I was doing something wrong. When I explained that it was due mainly to homework, she told me not to give any homework anymore because, "once a student leaves school they are not going to do anything except play games, talk on the phone, etc." I agree with those that think the government should get out of the education business, but I do not agree that charter schools or private schools are the answer because it is not the material or the format that is the problem, but rather society as a whole. Get rid of the welfare society that we live in, make people actually pay for their childrens education, make it much harder, and stop making it manditory to go to school and I gurantee that we will change our failing education system.
 
You're about the millionth person I've heard that from.

No way to more quickly kill the love of reading than 12 or 16 years or more in the education gulag. Don't want anybody cracking open dangerous or subversive books or documents now do we?

I have never regretted quitting at 16 and getting the hell out.

I was lucky enough to attend a private school in 8th and 9th grades. Went to public at 10th. So yeah pretty much quit it myself when I found it lacking and got a job.
 
I said it once and I'll say it again. I am a teacher and being in front of these students all day, day in and day out, I have learned a lot about the school system. The problem goes so much deeper than most people think. It is true that a few bad teachers, unions, government bureaucrats making decisions about education that have never taught and don't even know the real problems are some of the reasons, but there is something much deeper at fault. By the way, Unions for teachers are not as strong everywhere as you might think. Unions in MS where I live is almost none existant. The thing is, even if you removed all of these factors, our schools would still fail. As long as we live in a welfare state our schools will fail. Most people in America these days believes that they are entitled to something. When it comes to education, most students have the idea that they will just be handed an education and that they do not have to work for it. It is so sad being a teacher to see the utter laziness of most of my students. None of them want to work for it anymore. Then to make it worse parents, the government, administrators, college education professors, and the American public in general just look for other reasons for student failure than students. They say the teacher has failed. I have been told in college by my education professors that if a student fails, it is the teachers fault. The idea that a teacher should be rated or judged based on a students success is insane because I have seen great teachers get low performing students and be called a bad teacher because they couldn't perform a miracle. Then they say that the schools have failed. It is true that there are bad teachers and schools, but when the entire nation fails then you know that is not the big answer. No one is willing to point the finger at the real problem. No one respects an education anymore. It is seen as a right. Therefore, all the student should have to do is just sit there and it will be feed to them. I once had about 40 kids failing my class; mostly due to just not turning in work (in most cases the work was done in class and turned in the next day). My principle took me into her office and said that if that many students were failing, then I was doing something wrong. When I explained that it was due mainly to homework, she told me not to give any homework anymore because, "once a student leaves school they are not going to do anything except play games, talk on the phone, etc." I agree with those that think the government should get out of the education business, but I do not agree that charter schools or private schools are the answer because it is not the material or the format that is the problem, but rather society as a whole. Get rid of the welfare society that we live in, make people actually pay for their childrens education, make it much harder, and stop making it manditory to go to school and I gurantee that we will change our failing education system.

tldr. lack of paras. yawn. no wonder.
 
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