There's a monumental difference between publicly funded government unions and private unions. The latter (the right to it) is fundementally part of a free market. The former is an act of aggression and should not be tolerated.
NYT Expose On Chinese Working Conditions In Apple Factories - Microeconomic Help Please
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LibForestPaul
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No property rights, no liberty, no freedom = slave.
As many have said before in this thread, the workers are taking up these manufacturing jobs because they value the money (albeit low by our standards) much more than the potential risks associated with the jobs. Since mainland China is still undergoing massive amounts of growth in trying to rise out of the tier of developed countries, it is seeing millions of people displaced by modern farming practices and technologies streaming from the countryside into the cities in search of work. These hundreds of millions of migrant workers driving the urbanization of cities (as seen in the industrial revolutions of the West) are the source of China's cheap labor - and a power keg of social instability.
I remember reading some articles last summer when the Apple suicides started happening that explained that many of the workers were vulnerable to depression because they were homesick and continued to feel isolated because they couldn't find other workers from the same home-provinces to connect with (cultural and linguistic barriers). I think I even saw some articles that indicated that some of the workers that killed themselves did so because they felt that the compensation their families could receive as a result of their deaths would be worth much more to them than if they were alive - if this was true, then the fact that they saw themselves as more valuable to their families dead than alive is truly really, really sad.
I remember reading some articles last summer when the Apple suicides started happening that explained that many of the workers were vulnerable to depression because they were homesick and continued to feel isolated because they couldn't find other workers from the same home-provinces to connect with (cultural and linguistic barriers). I think I even saw some articles that indicated that some of the workers that killed themselves did so because they felt that the compensation their families could receive as a result of their deaths would be worth much more to them than if they were alive - if this was true, then the fact that they saw themselves as more valuable to their families dead than alive is truly really, really sad.
As an aside, this article over a week ago concerning Apple and China is also interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/b...d-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all
If you read between the lines, you can see how mainland China's current status as a new, developing "Wild West" is conducive for business and how the litany of regulations here at home (OSHA, EPA, DOL, etc.) really hinders the economy here at home.
Additionally, given the conditions under how these phones are fabricated, the cheap components that go into them, and Apple's huge profit margin per phone, it is not hard to see how the general trend in America of style trumping substance (aka the 2008 presidential election, what happened in South Carolina, etc.) can be seen in iPhone sales... However, if you despair about the sheeple in our country, wait until you google the ironic response of iPhone sales in China of all places!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/b...d-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all
If you read between the lines, you can see how mainland China's current status as a new, developing "Wild West" is conducive for business and how the litany of regulations here at home (OSHA, EPA, DOL, etc.) really hinders the economy here at home.
Additionally, given the conditions under how these phones are fabricated, the cheap components that go into them, and Apple's huge profit margin per phone, it is not hard to see how the general trend in America of style trumping substance (aka the 2008 presidential election, what happened in South Carolina, etc.) can be seen in iPhone sales... However, if you despair about the sheeple in our country, wait until you google the ironic response of iPhone sales in China of all places!
Apples and oranges (no pun intended)
The work is nothing alike. Apple produces electronics. Google employees do not, they are computer technicians and customer service people.
You cannot compare teaching, psychological counseling and financial planning to coal mining, oil drilling , truck driving.
kah13176
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This plan only forces the sweatshop laborers out of jobs. Making little money is better than making even less or none at all. The reason they work in sweatshops is that there's not another, more preferable alternative. Again, I stress that people watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx5fzBNO4l4&feature=player_embedded
THIS. having the right perspective is important. if people applied the same labor laws to the 18th century,there would never have been an industrial revolution to benefit the masses
nonsense. they are under no obligation to work there.the only thing that keeps them there is grinding poverty and starvation as an alternative.american workers of today will look like slaves 200 years from now. the working conditions of the past always look atrocious to those enjoying the benefits of division of labor
listen guys, i make around 40k USD in india for work i would have routinely got 120k if i had an US passport .barely median american salary,but my country's standards and purchasing power parity, i am very well off.i can even afford foreign vacations.please get a perspective. and yes,we often pull allnigthers here at work.not because we are slaves,but because most of us want to get away from poverty/mediocrity of the socialist past.it is just too damn recent to forget and demand mollycoddling
If you are really concerned by the conditions in China, you should buy more Chinese products, not less.
you mean if we bought less Chinese products, their work conditions would get worse?
Yes it's OK today beceause it was ok 200 years ago, how else can you say we should follow the advice of our founding fathers and Constitution if you think we should stop doing what people did 200 years ago.
I suppose we have to ask, if Apple can profit $46 billion in one quarter, do they have a moral obligation to ensure proper working conditions at the factories they commission? Or is their obligation to maximize profits for the shareholder more important?
Business has no moral obligations. Business answers only to the law of the land and their explicitly agreed contracts.
Diurdi
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What, you mean my degree in Corporate Social Responsibility is useless?
(no I don't have a CSR degree)
nobody's_hero
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Sometimes it feels more like the law of the jungle but I get what you're saying. Business is business. While it would be great to see people exercise some moral consideration when engaging in transactions, it's not likely to happen.
The goal is to find the cheapest product. Everything else gets very little consideration, for better or worse.
A business is one thing but a corporation is another. Directors and officers of corporations really are obligated to act in the interests of the shareholders, lest they find themselves in a lawsuit(of course that is an extreme case--a more likely scenario would be getting voted out). It's often said that the obligation is to profit and avoid getting too deep into philanthropic ventures. Making quality products affordable is of course necessary, but their business dealings also affect their public perception. Maybe morality wasn't the right word, but if nothing other than public perception, should Apple feel compelled to provide beyond simply what the current landscape in China calls for?
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awake
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...and that folks is why we need the government to intervene and force Apple to hire American only, force those jobs back to our workers instead of theirs, cause the Chinese workers are the slaves of Apple not their own maniacal Communist leadership.
Overlooking true exploitation by the State to foster a false exploitation distracting from that fact - the good old socialist mindset alive and well.
If the growth in the US State keeps its trajectory, it won't be the Chinese enjoying a 40 hr work week, it will be North Americans learning what a 112 hour work week feels like.
The socialist, whatever he may call himself to help him sleep at night, hates all other socialists almost as much as he hates liberty. Why? Because he is full with envy of the man who might take his turn enslaving others when it was his idea first.
Overlooking true exploitation by the State to foster a false exploitation distracting from that fact - the good old socialist mindset alive and well.
If the growth in the US State keeps its trajectory, it won't be the Chinese enjoying a 40 hr work week, it will be North Americans learning what a 112 hour work week feels like.
The socialist, whatever he may call himself to help him sleep at night, hates all other socialists almost as much as he hates liberty. Why? Because he is full with envy of the man who might take his turn enslaving others when it was his idea first.
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Are you making the distinction that corporations have a board and answer to investors, whereas businesses only answer to customers?
It's misleading to say corporations only answer to investors, because unless they break the law, they can only make investors happy if they make customers happy as well.
Apple clearly doesn't care about public image, or else they'd lower their prices and donate to charity. They don't even care about serving the maximum amount of people (which is what WalMart and oil companies are condemned for doing)
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LibForestPaul
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So you are saying they are able to freely associate, acquire property, without crony-ism, without government violence and force. They are obligated to work there because their masters make certain they are SLAVES. Working conditions are irrelevant, as long as the contract is entered VOLUNTARY between the parties. Why this fascination with working conditions when I spoke nothing of this? If you are coerced because your rights to property are subverted, you are under duress because your freedom to work is controlled by men with guns who demand payment, your savings are unlawfully stolen from you through inflation, taxes, and "fees", you are a SLAVE.