NY 23rd - Republican Drops Out of Race

[Ethek]

Two party systems like ours are a symptom of a government that is incapable of being representative in its current form. We do not have a representative government. All of these points made are how to get candidates into office. Our current system makes in almost a pointless process in small numbers. Once they are there, how do you keep them there an what good does it do anyone?

'Article the first'
http://www.thirty-thousand.org/
The original first amendment. This concept, sovereign state legislatures who seek to preserve 10th amendment powers once again designating senators, and constitutionally amended term limits (3 terms congress and 2 terms for Senate) would break the back of the two party system and return 'the peoples house' to the people.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'm intrigued by the 30k project...

A bit of history regarding parties for perspective

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=178085

 

[angelatc]

So this could be the first third party candidate to go to congress in a very long time, eh?

Maybe to the House, but there are 2 in the Senate. Lieberman and Saunders.

 

[erowe1]

Maybe to the House, but there are 2 in the Senate. Lieberman and Saunders.

I'm pretty sure both of them are independents. The last third party guy I can think of was another one from the Conservative Party, William F. Buckley's brother, also in the Senate and not the House.

 

[klamath]

I don't really care if people elect a third party or not. But for myself I don't think it is the awsome panacea to solving our problems like many people on here do. I am not real fond of european style elections and I think that is the way third parties here would turn out. All I see it as another step removing my voting decision in another layer of political back room deals. I am not that fond of caucuses for that reason.
No one has ever proved to me that if you are a third party you are politically pure. There has been some good ones and some pure awful ones just as there a good democrats and good republicans as well as some awful ones.
In this house race the primary process was skipped because it is a special election and some liberal party leaders made the choice for all the republican voters. They got their a** kicked.

 

[georgiaboy]

Dede wasn't splitting the conservative vote. She was splitting the liberal vote. Hoffman already had the entire conservative vote. Now, with Dede out of the race, her support will overwhelmingly go to the Democrat. Thus, her bowing out was the best way to endure Hoffman's defeat. It was quite shrewd on the part of the Republicrats, really.

Yes.

Nonetheless, it seems now the voters have a much clearer choice in front of them, though admittedly I don't know much about Hoffman to know if he is that good of an alternative to the Dem.

Regardless, the indication that conservatives are waking up and not wholesale voting "lesser of two evils GOP" is good to see.

That's been the biggest jolt I've experienced myself, that of no longer trusting whoever the GOP throws out in front of me. Seeing evidence that more voters are beginning to look past just party and look at the policies, principles, etc., is very encouraging. Especially after just having seen so many many votes for McCain in the presidency. People seem to be catching on that one can't just blindly vote GOP and expect smaller gov't, fiscal restraint, etc.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Yes.

Nonetheless, it seems now the voters have a much clearer choice in front of them, though admittedly I don't know much about Hoffman to know if he is that good of an alternative to the Dem.

Regardless, the indication that conservatives are waking up and not wholesale voting "lesser of two evils GOP" is good to see.

That's been the biggest jolt I've experienced myself, that of no longer trusting whoever the GOP throws out in front of me. Seeing evidence that more voters are beginning to look past just party and look at the policies, principles, etc., is very encouraging. Especially after just having seen so many many votes for McCain in the presidency. People seem to be catching on that one can't just blindly vote GOP and expect smaller gov't, fiscal restraint, etc.

The Government has not reduced it's budget in the last 100 years. Neither party has ever been for fiscal restraint. Sure, the GOP talk a nice rhetoric, but that is all it is. Who votes for talk?

Even the most conservative of President's in the past.....100 years Ronald Reagan didn't reduce the budget. Year over year it increased. At the very least if I was President if I did not receive a budget that was at least balanced AND cut 10% per year, I would veto every budget. I suspect Ron would do the same. If I was fortunate to get two terms, that would be an 80% decrease in Federal profligate spending. We would have 1885 back again.

10-15% Annual economic growth, liberty, and freedom. Once people get a taste of liberty they won't relinquish it so easily.

PS: I'm glad many people are starting to wake up. Let's see if people may actually look outside of the two party system to find their principled candidates....that will be the true test. (I don't count CPoNY as a third party, or independant) As an aside, we need a new generation of intelligent, articulate, staunch classical liberals and An-Caps to take over the political sphere in America. This means fighting the entrenched tenure in our Universities and transitioning from public to wholly private institutions. It also means, self-education as a core principle and not blind obedience to the State funded "teacher". I see good signs on the horizon. This is a very hopeful time for this country. As ol' Rambo said 'Don't let a crisis go to waste'.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/10/31/what-happens-to-scozzafavas-supporters/

Consider the Siena poll out this morning, which has all sorts of useful cross-tabs. Scozzafava’s supporters in this poll:

– Have a favorable view of Barack Obama by a 64-31 margin.
– Have an unfavorable view of Hoffman 15-57.
– Have an unfavorable view of Democrat Bill Owens, 19-50.

It’s not quite so clear how Hoffman stands to benefit from this. Although a majority of Scozzafava’s supporters are Republican (about 62 percent, by my reckoning), it is safe to assume that they are mostly rather moderate Republicans, because almost all the conservative Republicans had already gone over to Hoffman. To wit, two-thirds of Scozzafava’s supporters say they like Barack Obama. While moderate Republicans are an endangered species elsewhere in the country, that is not true in upstate New York, where a lot of voters are registered as Republicans and vote that way in statewide races but often vote Democratic in federal races. (NY-23 supported Barack Obama 52-47 last November.)

The reality is that a lot of Scozzafava’s ex-supporters, many of whom don’t like either Hoffman or Owens, simply won’t vote. And some of them will still wind up casting their ballots for Scozzafava undaunted, as she’ll still appear on the ballot and may have made herself something of a sympathetic figure.
(…)

If I had to guess, I’d think that of Scozzafava’s support, one-quarter of people don’t vote, one-quarter vote for Scozzafava anyway, 30 percent defect to Hoffman and 20 percent defect to Owens. Extrapolating from the morning’s Siena poll, that would produce a result of Hoffman 43, Owens 42, Scozzafava 5, with 10 percent of the voters still up for grabs.
In short, this race is far from over yet and Hoffman could still find himself on the short end here.

My prediction ? I’ll release that Wednesday morning around 9am.

 

[IamPersistent]

I'm sure she just bowed out to save face for the Republican party. Too bad really, they could use the egg in their faces (or is that feces?)

 

[specsaregood]

//

 

[LittleLightShining]

The local news had a piece on this last night. The people on the street they interviewed pretty much all agreed that this was a good thing for Owens because his position is so much closer to Scozzafava's than Hoffman's. Also, the commercials have been interesting. Hoffman has some good ones pointing out Owens' relationship with Nancy Pelosi. Owens' commercials paint Hoffman as a millionaire who doesn't understand the problems facing working people.

YouTube - Hoffman Spelling

YouTube - Doug Hoffman: Looking Out for Himself (NY-23)

 

[cindy25]

this was a unique situation, because there are no primaries in by-elections; had there been a primary Hoffman would have won, and no one would have heard of NY23; also NY has small parties established-from Conservative to Acorn (working families)

this district will be eliminated in 2012 anyway, and split up.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20091101/OPINION01/311019918/-1/OPINION

During the day Saturday, she began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters to vote for Democrat William L. Owens.

A RINO sheds its tusks after halloween and reveals an ass...

 

[Peace&Freedom]

The Conservative Party has a history in NY of generally endorsing the Republican candidates, while staying strong enough to often bolt from the GOP (when they go off the deep end) by supporting somebody else, thus keeping the latter in line. The 23rd District is the latest example, and if Hoffman loses it will only underscore to the Republicans that they need to be on the same page with the CP to ensure victory.

Otherwise, in terms of trying to win elections, it is well to remember there is a third option for pro-liberty people in the post Paul 2008 era, beyond "work within the GOP" or only vote third party traditional choices. We should simply focus on supporting strong pro-liberty candidates to run as either Republicans or Democrats, for the major nominations of whichever party the district or state trends toward.

Run Paulite Democrats in Democratic leaning districts, and Paulite Republicans in Republican leaning districts. Upon winning the major nomination, the liberty candidate will naturally have the inside track on getting elected. This simple approach bypasses the twin problems of the structural suppression of thid parties, and the likely failure of the 'save the GOP' efforts.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

The Conservative Party has a history in NY of generally endorsing the Republican candidates, while staying strong enough to often bolt from the GOP (when they go off the deep end) by supporting somebody else, thus keeping the latter in line. The 23rd District is the latest example, and if Hoffman loses it will only underscore to the Republicans that they need to be on the same page with the CP to ensure victory.

Otherwise, in terms of trying to win elections, it is well to remember there is a third option for pro-liberty people in the post Paul 2008 era, beyond "work within the GOP" or only vote third party traditional choices. We should simply focus on supporting strong pro-liberty candidates to run as either Republicans or Democrats, for the major nominations of whichever party the district or state trends toward.

Run Paulite Democrats in Democratic leaning districts, and Paulite Republicans in Republican leaning districts. Upon winning the major nomination, the liberty candidate will naturally have the inside track on getting elected. This simple approach bypasses the twin problems of the structural suppression of thid parties, and the likely failure of the 'save the GOP' efforts.

I can go for that. Pro-liberty and integrity are my two prime issues... While I self identify with the limited gov't "right", many of the current positions [of those who call themselves social conservatives] are out of whack - IMO - and many might mistake my positions as leftist...

looks like Dede has formally endorsed the dem

It is in this spirit that I am writing to let you know I am supporting Bill Owens for Congress and urge you to do the same.

 

[specsaregood]

The thing about this that bothers me is that it has everything to do with "social values", not fiscal conservatism or spending. This is the social conservatives splitting off, not the financial conservatives. This does not represent the "tea party" issues one bit; but it is being spun as representative of the "tea parties"....

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

jus musin...

I wonder that the tyrants are feeling a bit more pressure than they were expecting and reacting a bit more than acting. Is the "reaction" a classic divide and conquer strategy done on the fly? It don't matter where and who gets divided, everybody everywhere, anyway... Divide the moderates, at all costs.

The tea-parties (jr.) rose as a response to Bush's Bailouts and were non-partisan. It was quickly made about Obama and HealthCare, peeling off most of the dems. If I were a tyrant I would be thinking how to further divide... Theistic beliefs are remarkably vulnerable and the first bulwark of such cowardly liars. Sadly, these [embarrassments to heaven and earth] are well entrenched and wisdom would dictate a considered approach.

I see rumors, and evidence, in different organizations, of people attempting to force theistic beliefs to the forefront, and hear the complaints of other faiths... A moment of silence (for personal quiet contemplation with [whatever it is one contemplates with]) and no more - IMO. (Unless the group is started around a theistic belief, of course)

The best we will ever do regarding "social issues" is localism, as envisioned by the founders. Turn the conversation back to restoring the balance of power in this country.Returning the power over our families/communities back to the people. That line of reasoning works with most people and brings us together. Anything more I, generally, find divisive in the big picture.

Be wary of those who divide.

 

[angelatc]

Maybe I am wrong, but IMHO the thing that drove most people away from the GOP was the Iraq war.

If you ask me, the GOP is doing a pretty good job of cashing in on the fiscal disenchantment and managing to avoid addressing that.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Maybe I am wrong, but IMHO the thing that drove most people away from the GOP was the Iraq war.

If you ask me, the GOP is doing a pretty good job of cashing in on the fiscal disenchantment and managing to avoid addressing that.

Yes, war and flag waving patriotism (Nationalism?) is probably next down the list from theism. This is another bulwark of the traitors and best approached diplomatically - IMHO.

I wonder that true "American" patriotism is enthusiastic reverence for those that have fought, and died, for Liberty, (which prevents many from even considering their position.)