Not going to remove IRS?

[theguyver]

Taken from this article:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/07/454040.aspx

All of his ideas were rooted in the Constitution, Paul said. But he recognizes that some -- like eliminating the IRS, and returning all funding of education to the states -- are unlikely to be achieved as president. So he said he’d focus on the one area a president has more leverage -- foreign policy.

WTF? This better be that the IRS as a *department* can't be dismantled during his presidency, but he better not back down from his "I'll abolish the unconstitutional income tax immediately" stance he'd been preaching all along.

Like one commenter said, I'd still vote for him but it would be a HUGE disappointment if he didn't honor this promise.

 

[Artemus]

Well first of all, that is a paraphrase, I don't know exactly what he said, but he is going to have a very hard time eliminating the IRS if all the people in Congress are against it.
He could technically pardon everyone the IRS charges, but I highly doubt Paul would do such a thing. Remember, Ron Paul would never eliminate the IRS until he can cut spending down to the point where it is no longer needed and with the amount money that is being spent right now, it would very well take some time.

 

[jon_perez]

The whole idea of a Ron Paul presidency is for the executive to have less powers and for congress to have more. It may be paradoxical because Ron Paul would then have less powers to implement his promises.

But it is actually more constitutional because congress, being the direct representatives of the people, should be vested with more powers and responsibility than the executive (who is more or less like a king).

This actually makes a heck of a lot of sense. So many people have this mistaken notion that they elect presidents to get certain policies in place, but getting involved with your congressman is actually the more practical and democratic approach.

Removal of the IRS is a federal issue, but congress still has to vote on it and the executive cannot repeal it unilaterally afaik, so if RP does become president, the next step would be to lobby your congressperson to support such a move.

 

[theguyver]

The whole idea of a Ron Paul presidency is for the executive to have less powers and for congress to have more. It may be paradoxical because Ron Paul would then have less powers to implement his promises.

But it is actually more constitutional because congress, being the direct representatives of the people, should be vested with more powers and responsibility than the executive (who is more or less like a king).

This actually makes a heck of a lot of sense. So many people have this mistaken notion that they elect presidents to get certain policies in place, but getting involved with your congressman is actually the more practical and democratic approach.

Removal of the IRS is a federal issue, but congress still has to vote on it and the executive cannot repeal it unilaterally afaik, so if RP does become president, the next step would be to lobby your congressperson to support such a move.

If it was just a matter of talking to our representatives and them doing what we ask them to do, then we wouldn't *need* to have Ron Paul as president. We could implement all of RP's ideas regardless of which president is elected. Snowball's chance in hell if you ask me...

 

[Todd]

Promise

I don't believe that it is something he doesn't intend to do. It is simply not going to be the easiest idea to implement from the Presidency. He is a man of principles.

 

[Jimmy]

This country is not a dictatorship (yet). He cannot just get rid of it. I'm sure he would to EVERYTHING in his power to do so....but in the end he will only have so much power as president. All he can do is fight in the right direction.

 

[johngr]

He can blanket pardon all tax evaders. I believe he will do just that as it is the only morally consistent thing he can do. It is not dictatorial, it is the opposite.

 

[ronpaul1]

I just wrote to the campiagn to clarify this issue. This is the response.

Thanks for writing.

Congressman Paul means that he will have to have the support of Congress to do it. That doesn't mean that he's not going to try. He will do everything in his executive power to dismantle the income tax, but the people are going to have to pressure Congress (along with Dr. Paul) to repeal the 16th amendment and abolish the IRS.

Dr. Paul will fight for these things and work for these things. He has every intention of doing that. What he is saying is that it is unlikely they will happen because Congress probably will not support him.

That's where we come in. We have to assist him when he gets in. He'll give the leadership. He'll veto the bills and talk about ending the IRS and work toward that end, but we have to put the pressure on Congress to follow his lead.

I can promise you that Dr. Paul will do everything in his power to end the IRS, but it's going to be hard if the Congress doesn't back him up. He wants to make people aware of that. Again, this is where we really have to help.

I hope this helps, but if you want to discuss it further, please feel free to contact me

 

[johngr]

He will do everything in his executive power to dismantle the income tax, but the people are going to have to pressure Congress (along with Dr. Paul) to repeal the 16th amendment and abolish the IRS.

That would include blanket pardons and making tax cases a very low (read: zero) priority for the US Attys he hires.

 

[framecut]

Taken from this article:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/07/454040.aspx



WTF? This better be that the IRS as a *department* can't be dismantled during his presidency, but he better not back down from his "I'll abolish the unconstitutional income tax immediately" stance he'd been preaching all along.

Like one commenter said, I'd still vote for him but it would be a HUGE disappointment if he didn't honor this promise.

Ron Paul would have a serious fight with congress/senate to overthrow something as monolithic as the IRS.

It would be a virtual miracle if he were able to pull it off...

Then again, as of late, I am beginning to believe in miracles!

 

[xao]

He can blanket pardon all tax evaders. I believe he will do just that as it is the only morally consistent thing he can do. It is not dictatorial, it is the opposite.

Absolutely Correct.

He can also make congress look like complete and utter fools when every american wants the IRS to be eliminated but they won't do it.

Ron can make a number of speeches explaining to the American people that they should only vote for a candidate who will eliminate the IRS. As president, he will have serious power on national tv to awaken the sheeple who still do not get it. Though if he gets elected and he will, then we the people will already be stronger in the grass roots and spread the word about other candidates like Paul who want to get rid of the IRS.

 

[0zzy]

So if he pardons everyone from tax invasion, wouldn't he essentially allow everyone from paying their IRS? I assume he would only do such a thing after cutting spending, which would take a few years. After that, there is no need for an IRS, and he can defy congress by pardoning them.

 

[jon_perez]

If it was just a matter of talking to our representatives and them doing what we ask them to do, then we wouldn't *need* to have Ron Paul as president. We could implement all of RP's ideas regardless of which president is elected. Snowball's chance in hell if you ask me...

You need both since the president has veto power...

This is all part of the checks and balances of a democracy.

Ron Paul would work towards repealing the 16th Amendment, I thought that was pretty categorical...

 

[jon_perez]

He can blanket pardon all tax evaders. I believe he will do just that as it is the only morally consistent thing he can do. It is not dictatorial, it is the opposite.

That would be unfair to the people who already paid their taxes. In that case, the people who already paid would demand a refund of their taxes...

 

[jon_perez]

I just wrote to the campiagn to clarify this issue. This is the response.

Congressman Paul means that he will have to have the support of Congress to do it. That doesn't mean that he's not going to try. He will do everything in his executive power to dismantle the income tax, but the people are going to have to pressure Congress (along with Dr. Paul) to repeal the 16th amendment and abolish the IRS.

Dr. Paul will fight for these things and work for these things. He has every intention of doing that. What he is saying is that it is unlikely they will happen because Congress probably will not support him.

That's where we come in. We have to assist him when he gets in. He'll give the leadership. He'll veto the bills and talk about ending the IRS and work toward that end, but we have to put the pressure on Congress to follow his lead.

I can promise you that Dr. Paul will do everything in his power to end the IRS, but it's going to be hard if the Congress doesn't back him up. He wants to make people aware of that. Again, this is where we really have to help.

I would imagine this is exactly how it would have to happen... a president isn't a monarch you know...

Ron Paul has passionate supporters, but it's kinda dismaying that a large chunk of them do not really understand how government is supposed to work... it just means it's going to be an uphill battle for us to be taken seriously.

What he is saying is that it is unlikely they will happen because Congress probably will not support him.

This would certainly have been better phrased as " it is unlikely they will happen IF Congress does not support him, and thus it is imperative for people to lobby at the congressional level as well"

 

[jumpyg1258]

For just about all his changes, they are going to have a transition period. Do not expect ANYTHING overnight. His powers are limited as chief executive. Sure you will see him remove us out of Iraq within 6 months or so, but other than that it will take some time to see anything. Ron Paul is only the first step in the necessary changes needed in our government. It will probably take at least two to three good presidencies in a row to see the major changes needed.

 

[jumpyg1258]

Perhaps we can persuade Rand Paul to run after his dad serves his two terms, heheh.

 

[CJLauderdale4]

Slow down, guys...

The IRS is a private agency working for the Department of Treasury to collect taxes for the Federal Government. They DO NOT work for Congress. The Department of the Treasury can simply fire all existing IRS field agents (private employees, not Federal), and change the IRS policy to no longer enforce tax liens and missing/false tax returns.

Tax Courts are a lot different from Federal courts, but escalated tax issues eventually do go to Federal Court, where prosecution is handled by U.S. Attorneys taking direction from the Attorney General and the Justice Department.

SO, even if the laws are not changed by Congress, and the IRS remains, the President and Attorney General can choose NOT TO ENFORCE the income tax laws.

For example, today we have immigration laws that make illegal entry into the U.S. a felony. How well does the Department of Homeland Security enforce these laws?? Exactly - they don't. So the same could be said for the income tax as well.

Napolitano for Attorney General!!!!

 

[jon_perez]

Perhaps we can persuade Rand Paul to run after his dad serves his two terms, heheh.

It doesn't even have to be the above...

RP now has to try to win the mainstream and not the kooks. If people become convinced that the mainstream is absorbing RP's message, then this would change the mindset of the politicians as a whole which is what you really want as opposed to having RP win per se. The latter is such a narrow goal.

Even Paul himself has said "it's not about me, it's about the message of liberty". People always get so hung up on the symbol and forget what's behind it...

 

[jon_perez]

Slow down, guys...

The IRS is a private agency working for the Department of Treasury to collect taxes for the Federal Government. They DO NOT work for Congress. The Department of the Treasury can simply fire all existing IRS field agents (private employees, not Federal), and change the IRS policy to no longer enforce tax liens and missing/false tax returns.

Tax Courts are a lot different from Federal courts, but escalated tax issues eventually do go to Federal Court, where prosecution is handled by U.S. Attorneys taking direction from the Attorney General and the Justice Department.

SO, even if the laws are not changed by Congress, and the IRS remains, the President and Attorney General can choose NOT TO ENFORCE the income tax laws.

For example, today we have immigration laws that make illegal entry into the U.S. a felony. How well does the Department of Homeland Security enforce these laws?? Exactly - they don't. So the same could be said for the income tax as well.

Napolitano for Attorney General!!!!

Sounds good to me...