Northeast Ohio rocked by 11th earthquake linked to Youngstown injection wells

[angelatc]

4.0 isn't that big for a quake- unless you are really close and in a static position- say sitting in a chair or on a couch- you might not even notice it. Just a little shaking. Kinda like a large truck driving by in front of your house.

I call hyperbole. Ohio sits square on the Madrid fault, and has always had small iearthquakes .

 

[angelatc]

I think that's the most worrisome part. If you release a pocket of trapped methane 10,000 feet below the surface, it's anybody's guess where that methane is eventually going to end up.

Physics wasn't my strong point, but I'm thinking that it's going straight up that shaft you just drilled. And if this is 10,000 feet below the surface, it's about 9900 feet below the water table

 

[moostraks]

I bookmarked that report. I'd like to follow what the outcome is. How much drilling is going on in that area? Also was curious if the "brine" injection was fracking fluid or if it was storage/disposal of fracking fluid.

As explained through the local paper,"the brine-injection well on Ohio Works Drive in Youngstown that is blamed for the 11 quakes — the first to have an epicenter in Mahoning County...Injection wells are the opposite; the fluid left over from the fracking process is injected deep into the ground, sometimes as deep as 9,300 feet in Ohio.

The brine injections is a separate practice from fracking.

The nearest horizontal fracking operation is in Milton Township. There is no horizontal fracking going on in the immediate Youngstown area.

There was, however, one fully-functional injection well, on Ohio Works Drive in Youngstown.

That well was shut down by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources on Friday."

http://www.vindy.com/news/2012/jan/02/quake-fallout-takes-many-paths/
They are going as far as they can to try and distance this from fracking. The local media is highly invested in encouraging people to support the fracking as the cure for the economy here. That alone makes me suspicious. I do like the comments from some who are paying close attention to how this matter is being handled. I am currently fence sitting on this issue as I have not taken enough time to be well read on the matter. I do think they are trying too hard to distance something which does have its ties to the fracking process. I also see how big corp manage to entice crooked government officials to look the other way in too many instances so I am incredibly leery of the matter going well for those of us who are here for the long haul and not looking to get the heck out of Dodge.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

That to me sounds like a bad practice altogether. It's a consequence of not having a good solution for what to do with the portion of fracking liquids that are reclaimed from the well, and it should become obsolete once new fracking chemicals are introduced. Gunny mentioned Halliburton is introducing a eco-friendly solution, and I've heard talk of a carbon dioxide based solution. In the meantime, there are on-site filter units which are being employed to handle the water. Pumping brine into the ground because they can't figure out what else to do with it is just a bad practice, I think.

 

[sam1952]

Thank you for the reply. If they are injecting the Brine, which I'm taking to mean used frack fluid, as a way of disposing it that is something I disagree with on the surface. Here there have beeen companies dumping frack fluid into streams and rivers in the past. Responsible drillers do not support that and it is illegal! They are now recycling the water to new wells and also have water treatment plants to return the water to normal.

I am confused about the earthquakes though and am interested in this. To me it seems the perforation of the pipe is minor. Just enough charge to blow through the well casing. then the Fracking takes place.The well spacing is only a couple of hundred feet apart meaning tiny fractures in the shale run a hundred feet each side. it just doesn't seem to be enough to disturb the rock that much. Of course i am no geologist and why I am interested in following this.

 

[moostraks]

I call hyperbole. Ohio sits square on the Madrid fault, and has always had small iearthquakes .

Previous quake history appears to be few and far between...
Historical Earthquake Data (Within 100 Miles)

All distances and depths in the table below are measured in miles

Date Distance Magnitude Depth
06/10/2010 60.96 2.6 5

06/07/2010 51.85 2.4 5

05/17/2010 45.79 2.7 5

04/25/2010 52.02 3 5

01/09/2008 58.92 3.1 5

10/17/2007 60.10 3.4 5

03/12/2007 39.97 3.7 5

06/20/2006 59.32 3.5 5

03/11/2006 60.66 3.1 5

06/30/2004 52.02 3.3 5

06/30/2003 56.15 3.6 4

06/03/2001 55.64 3.4 5

01/26/2001 58.57 4.4 5

09/25/1998 30.14 4.5 5

10/16/1993 45.49 3.6 5

03/15/1992 64.03 3.5 5

01/26/1991 51.48 3.4 5

07/13/1987 55.84 3 5

07/13/1987 55.64 3.8 5

01/31/1986 46.32 5 10

http://www.homefacts.com/earthquakes/Ohio/Mahoning-County/Youngstown.html

Now:

"The quake was the 11th over the last eight months in Mahoning County, all within two miles of the injection wells, he said. Saturday’s quake was the largest yet..."

http://www.ohio.com/news/local-news...linked-to-youngstown-injection-wells-1.252977

I think calling this hyperbole is disparaging people with well founded fears of a process being given tons of positive publicity and minimal oversite when damge is apparently being caused. I understand not jumping to conclusions after one earthquake but it took 11 quakes before the decided to see a connection. Geesh! 4.0 might not be a big deal in some areas of the country but in an area with old houses that already have sinking potentials due to extensive coal mining in the area, all areas are not created equal...

 

[moostraks]

That to me sounds like a bad practice altogether. It's a consequence of not having a good solution for what to do with the portion of fracking liquids that are reclaimed from the well, and it should become obsolete once new fracking chemicals are introduced. Gunny mentioned Halliburton is introducing a eco-friendly solution, and I've heard talk of a carbon dioxide based solution. In the meantime, there are on-site filter units which are being employed to handle the water. Pumping brine into the ground because they can't figure out what else to do with it is just a bad practice, I think.

I had heard about the recycling as well. I was rather surprised to find out this waste is being dumped in a nearby town's back yard. They figure we are too poor and desperate to complain if I had my guess. You hear daily about fracking potential on the local talk radio but this is the first mention I have seen of the waste being dumped. The 11 quakes have also only been sparsely mentioned as I have only heard of 3 earthquakes out of the 11 and we have the local radio on almost 24/7 in the kitchen and bedroom...

 

[moostraks]

Thank you for the reply. If they are injecting the Brine, which I'm taking to mean used frack fluid, as a way of disposing it that is something I disagree with on the surface. Here there have beeen companies dumping frack fluid into streams and rivers in the past. Responsible drillers do not support that and it is illegal! They are now recycling the water to new wells and also have water treatment plants to return the water to normal.

I am confused about the earthquakes though and am interested in this. To me it seems the perforation of the pipe is minor. Just enough charge to blow through the well casing. then the Fracking takes place.The well spacing is only a couple of hundred feet apart meaning tiny fractures in the shale run a hundred feet each side. it just doesn't seem to be enough to disturb the rock that much. Of course i am no geologist and why I am interested in following this.

I am not very knowledgable on the matter but glad to pass on what I can find. I am very skeptical when government goes on a propaganda tour with corporations as they have been pimping in our area over the last few weeks. So I lean towards pessimistic. The term brine water seems very innocuous as opposed to waste water which is more accurate imo. Sorry about the problems in your area. I know many here are using PA's problems with the industry as a reason to go slow and trust no one while the industry is waving bundles of cash under the noses of those sitting on parcels of land.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Previous quake history appears to be few and far between...
Historical Earthquake Data (Within 100 Miles)

All distances and depths in the table below are measured in miles

Date Distance Magnitude Depth
06/10/2010 60.96 2.6 5

06/07/2010 51.85 2.4 5

05/17/2010 45.79 2.7 5

04/25/2010 52.02 3 5

01/09/2008 58.92 3.1 5

10/17/2007 60.10 3.4 5

03/12/2007 39.97 3.7 5

06/20/2006 59.32 3.5 5

03/11/2006 60.66 3.1 5

06/30/2004 52.02 3.3 5

06/30/2003 56.15 3.6 4

06/03/2001 55.64 3.4 5

01/26/2001 58.57 4.4 5

09/25/1998 30.14 4.5 5

10/16/1993 45.49 3.6 5

03/15/1992 64.03 3.5 5

01/26/1991 51.48 3.4 5

07/13/1987 55.84 3 5

07/13/1987 55.64 3.8 5

01/31/1986 46.32 5 10

http://www.homefacts.com/earthquakes/Ohio/Mahoning-County/Youngstown.html

Now:
http://www.ohio.com/news/local-news...linked-to-youngstown-injection-wells-1.252977

I think calling this hyperbole is disparaging people with well founded fears of a process being given tons of positive publicity and minimal oversite when damge is apparently being caused. I understand not jumping to conclusions after one earthquake but it took 11 quakes before the decided to see a connection. Geesh! 4.0 might not be a big deal in some areas of the country but in an area with old houses that already have sinking potentials due to extensive coal mining in the area, all areas are not created equal...

According to the article, the quakes have not been significant in size as far as earthquakes go. Other quakes mentioned in the article:
December 24th 2.4
March 17th 2.1 and 2.6

There are about 1.5 million earthquakes of 3.9 or lower each year someplace on earth. 1.3 million in the 2.0 to 2.9 category. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale Quakes under 3.0 are not usually felt at all.

This is not to say that fracking does not cause problems. Just to say that the quakes so far are not significant events.

The epicenter of this latest quake was over three miles down according to the USGS http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/ld60029101.html which is far below any wells being drilled in Ohio.

 

[sam1952]

Really the problems have been few and far between. Honestly local media and the state are not pushing the drilling agenda. There are enough news reports taking the anti-drilling position. The anti position has as much propaganda as any i've seen. Kinda like FOX vs CNN, lol.... My personal opinion now that the dust has settled is I belive it to be a safe energy source. i am glad to see PA take a lead position in the exploration of natural gas rather than put a moritorium on drilling as other states have done. Of course responsible drilling and waste disposal practices are a part of the equation.

I will still take natural gas drilling over coal minning anytime...

 

[angelatc]

I think calling this hyperbole is disparaging people with well founded fears of a process being given tons of positive publicity and minimal oversite when damge is apparently being caused. I understand not jumping to conclusions after one earthquake but it took 11 quakes before the decided to see a connection. Geesh! 4.0 might not be a big deal in some areas of the country but in an area with old houses that already have sinking potentials due to extensive coal mining in the area, all areas are not created equal...

I grew up there. It's no secret that the fault exists, and we've always known that there was going to be a big quake there some day, which still hasn't happened, btw. You can't build houses on an earthquake fault and not seriously expect that the ground won't move.

Seismic activity along one of the biggest faults in America - yeah, must be corporate America's fault, coz the liberal media says so.

 

[moostraks]

I grew up there. It's no secret that the fault exists, and we've always known that there was going to be a big quake there some day, which still hasn't happened, btw. You can't build houses on an earthquake fault and not seriously expect that the ground won't move.

Seismic activity along one of the biggest faults in America - yeah, must be corporate America's fault, coz the liberal media says so.

Yeah the injection well is completely irrelevant to the 11 earthquakes in 8 months in the immediate locale. Good grief. Dismiss data because you know better. Alrighty there...

Btw liberal media ain't sayin nothin' cause they are in for the fracking deal. Check out the vindy piece. They want to dismiss this as much as possible. All the media does here is pimp for the fracking contracts. They don't give a damn about the consequences. They have been pretty quiet up till the damn well was closed as to why we were having these quakes.

 

[moostraks]

According to the article, the quakes have not been significant in size as far as earthquakes go. Other quakes mentioned in the article:
December 24th 2.4
March 17th 2.1 and 2.6

There are about 1.5 million earthquakes of 3.9 or lower each year someplace on earth. 1.3 million in the 2.0 to 2.9 category. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale Quakes under 3.0 are not usually felt at all.

This is not to say that fracking does not cause problems. Just to say that the quakes so far are not significant events.

The epicenter of this latest quake was over three miles down according to the USGS http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/ld60029101.html which is far below any wells being drilled in Ohio.

"analysis of the 10th earthquake, a 2.7-magnitude temblor on Dec. 24, showed that it occurred less than 2,000 feet below the well. Because of a lack of data, depth estimates of earlier earthquakes had been far less precise."...

John Armbruster, a seismologist with Lamont, said that the data from the Saturday quake should be available within a few days, and that analysis should help pinpoint the location of the fault that slipped.

'In our minds, we were already pretty convinced that these events were connected to the well,” Mr. Armbruster said. “Having that many earthquakes fairly close to a well in Ohio, where there aren’t a lot of earthquakes, was suspicious.'"


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/s...jection-well-stays-shut-after-earthquake.html

I guess it might be okay to you to wake up one day and have your house start tilting so your floors slope but around these parts folks are having a hard enough time trying to sell their houses without this type of crap happenning. As I suspected local response on regarding insurance is sounding like an uphill battle. Insurance stance seems to be taking the position they won't cover the damage because it was a manmade earthquake according to at least one local respondant. Guess they can just take them to court and try suing the company. That usually works well esp. for low income folks...