No Joke: How A Rand Paul Republican From Alabama Learned To Love Obamacare

[eduardo89]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112014770

For the OP, this is how government works. Problem: poverty exists. Solution: Vote for me and I'll give you money!

If someone comes along and threatens that, people get terrified. It's entirely rational. People set up their whole lives based on this system. And that's precisely why it's so evil.

I don't know why you quoted that part on Spain's public healthcare system. When I lived in Spain I had the 'right' to 'free' healthcare but I never used it, and neither did my daughter. They do have some very good hospitals but Spaniards pay the price for it.

Income taxes start at 24.75% for income under €17,000 and go all the way up to 52% for income above €300,000. The worst are VAT which is 21% and payroll taxes, which are 36.5%!! 29.9% paid by the employer (plus a percentage to cover labor accidents and illnesses), and 6.35% paid by the employee. There's also property tax and a wealth tax of 2.5% yearly on assets more than €700,000.

 

[jtstellar]

I've heard this "give Obamacare a chance to work" crap several times now.

funny cus 2 liberals on a fox panel were just saying that

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I don't think I'm going to get it. Mostly to stick it to them. When they mandate it, prices will skyrocket, and I'd honestly rather not pay the mafia.

You're 18, so you will be covered on your parents plan until something like 24 or 26. I forget the number. But if you don't get insurance you just end up paying a fine.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I think you may want to think again about whether you are going to get insurance. Keep in mind that hospitals will only help you for free if it is life-threatening emergency. So, if you tear the crap out of your knee, while it may be painful and if not fixed quickly, damage you for life, it is not life-threatening. You will have to choose to pay 4 times the normal amount, if you do not have negotiated-rates through an insurance company or go without.

Is it actually going to be worth the sky-high prices after this is all over, though?

I don't know enough about this right now, so I wouldn't know.

You're an idiot then. You never know what may happen, just as brandon above said. He got appendicitis and it cost $75,000. You never know if you might get sick with that, or be in a car crash, or be playing sports and break a bone so bad you need surgery, or or or or....

Calling people idiots is the correct response when the person shows a clear unwillingness to listen to reason, particularly if they're hopelessly indoctrinated in statism, cannot be talked out of it, and its not someone you care if you offend or not.

It is not the correct response in this case.

 

[thoughtomator]

Insurance by definition does not cover pre-existing conditions. What he got was a subsidy, and all this proves is that if you give something free you can even find an occasional hypocrite who has voted for a Paul.

 

[newbitech]

So eventually all of us are going to have outrageous medical bills. It is guaranteed that all of us will eventually one day become unhealthy.

So if I pay 50 years for insurance at a price of 5,000 a year, that is what $250,000. Is that gonna be enough to cover all my health care needs along the way? Doubt it.

I don't see health care insurance any differently than I see social security. It will never have enough to pay for everyone that paid in. The problem that has not been addressed at all is the outrageous cost of health care.

I think insurance is a ponzi scheme. The numbers just don't add up for me. The insurance companies take that horde of monthly premiums and play the market with it.

Think about it. If every man woman and child in the USA paid in 200 a month in insurance? 3/4 trillion dollars.

In 2008 there were 124 million ER visits in the United States. When was the last time you went to the ER and saw a bill less than 7k (yeah i know insurance covered most of it). That's just ER, not even talking outpatient services, and just routine visits, surgeries, etc etc etc etc...

Insurance doesn't cover jack with the outrageous cost of health care.

Face it, you get sick or have some sort of "condition", you are pretty much X'ed out if you had to actually "take personal responsibility".

No, getting insurance is not taking personal responsibility. It's hoping that 320 million other people or some functional fraction thereof don't need their insurance money at the same time. Ponzi scheme.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

I don't know why you quoted that part on Spain's public healthcare system. When I lived in Spain I had the 'right' to 'free' healthcare but I never used it, and neither did my daughter. They do have some very good hospitals but Spaniards pay the price for it.

Income taxes start at 24.75% for income under €17,000 and go all the way up to 52% for income above €300,000. The worst are VAT which is 21% and payroll taxes, which are 36.5%!! 29.9% paid by the employer (plus a percentage to cover labor accidents and illnesses), and 6.35% paid by the employee. There's also property tax and a wealth tax of 2.5% yearly on assets more than €700,000.

I was under the impression that you were in Spain. I don't disagree with the opposition to Spain's ridiculous taxes.

 

[eduardo89]

I was under the impression that you were in Spain. I don't disagree with the opposition to Spain's ridiculous taxes.

I used to live in Spain. One of the biggest reasons I left is taxation. 36.5% payroll tax, minimum of 25% income tax, plus 21% VAT...fucking absurd. No wonder no employer wants to hire, imagine paying 30% tax on all your employee's salaries...

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

I used to live in Spain. One of the biggest reasons I left is taxation. 36.5% payroll tax, minimum of 25% income tax, plus 21% VAT...fucking absurd. No wonder no employer wants to hire, imagine paying 30% tax on all your employee's salaries...

You could cut those in half and it'd still be a ridiculous burden. I'm sure those aren't the only taxes in Spain, either.

 

[Henry Rogue]

So eventually all of us are going to have outrageous medical bills. It is guaranteed that all of us will eventually one day become unhealthy.

So if I pay 50 years for insurance at a price of 5,000 a year, that is what $250,000. Is that gonna be enough to cover all my health care needs along the way? Doubt it.

I don't see health care insurance any differently than I see social security. It will never have enough to pay for everyone that paid in. The problem that has not been addressed at all is the outrageous cost of health care.

I think insurance is a ponzi scheme. The numbers just don't add up for me. The insurance companies take that horde of monthly premiums and play the market with it.

Think about it. If every man woman and child in the USA paid in 200 a month in insurance? 3/4 trillion dollars.

In 2008 there were 124 million ER visits in the United States. When was the last time you went to the ER and saw a bill less than 7k (yeah i know insurance covered most of it). That's just ER, not even talking outpatient services, and just routine visits, surgeries, etc etc etc etc...

Insurance doesn't cover jack with the outrageous cost of health care.

Face it, you get sick or have some sort of "condition", you are pretty much X'ed out if you had to actually "take personal responsibility".

No, getting insurance is not taking personal responsibility. It's hoping that 320 million other people or some functional fraction thereof don't need their insurance money at the same time. Ponzi scheme.

There is something inherently not right with this insurance industry in a market economy. I'll attempt to simplify the discussion for my own understanding. Medical cost seem disproportionately high compared to the rest of the economy. The cost are at bubble levels and have been for a long time. These bubble prices did not rise over night, but more or less rose steadily. The question is why. Why are cost beyond what an individual can afford to pay? There isn't any doubt in my mind that the reason for unaffordable medical costs are a direct result of the insurance industry and government intervention into the market. Medical malpractice lawsuits and insurance have also driven up the price of healthcare, but i consider that part of government intervention. Is the demand high? I would say that is an easy yes. Is the supply low? I don't know. Is there price fixing? Price fixing in which industry medical or insurance or both?

Initially, buying insurance seems a lot like easy credit in the housing bubble, driving up medical prices. Unlike easy credit, insurance itself is no longer affordable. Healthcare is unaffordable and health insurance is unaffordable. Could it be that insurance made healthcare unaffordable and government intervention made insurance unaffordable? In a Free Market, wouldn't people who opt to not buy health insurance, drive down the price of health insurance? Is there a lack of competition in the insurance industry?

One other question that i have been wondering for awhile. Would the medical industry be as affective at treating illness if medical prices were affordable to the average consumer? It seems unnecessary for insurance to cover regular doctors office visits. That has driven up the price of regular office visits, but what about life saving medical care? In a freer market would life saving medical care still be affordable to the average individual and still be affective at curing or extending life?

It's easy to see how certain things distort market prices. It's much harder to see how it all ties together. It's hard for me to see how the very notion of insurance would not distort the price of medical care in a true Free Market economy. Note, I am not suggesting insurance should be outlawed or anything like that, that would not be a Free Market solution.

 

[Keith and stuff]

I support this guy making 5 grand, 10 grand or how ever many grand he made by this article. He shows that you can be pro liberty and rich, you just have lie a little. Maybe he should run for office?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Most people do not ask, and wind up with the huge medical bills. There's a window where you can do what you did, which is the right thing to do, and discuss charity funds and discounts and payment plans. People just DO NOT ask until it's too late. We have people ignore bills, ignore calls, and finally get in touch with us a year or two after services were rendered. By then it is in Collections. This is usually the genesis of those horror stories.

Good on ya for knowing what to do and getting it done.

Again, perhaps this differs across states, because I have asked and have been told NO and that includes doctors AND hospitals. The best I could ever get is a small percentage off for paying cash, but it is deducted from the inflated number they submit to insurance companies.

 

[r123]

[h=1]As U.S. struggles with health reform, the Amish go their own way: http://news.yahoo.com/u-struggles-health-reform-amish-own-way-135454440--finance.html[/h]

 

[devil21]

Going without healthcare even if you're young and healthy is completely irresponsible. Even in the healthiest of people accidents happen. When I was 19 I got appendicitis and it cost my insurer something like 75 grand. I don't agree with the individual mandate, but as long as hospitals are mandated to treat everyone regardless of their ability to pay the situation gets a bit less black and white.

You meant going without "health insurance" right? This purposeful mangling of the language is getting on my nerves. It's HEALTH INSURANCE, NOT HEALTH CARE!

 

[Henry Rogue]

You meant going without "health insurance" right? This purposeful mangling of the language is getting on my nerves. It's HEALTH INSURANCE, NOT HEALTH CARE!

I agree, misusing words and definitions is the first tool in propaganda/indoctrination efforts.

 

[alucard13mm]

I think the problem is people don't understand self-responsibility. I'm not trying to make myself look like a posterboy for responsibility, but since my daughter was born 2.5 years ago we have never been uninsured. I can't imagine what would happen if I got a serious illness and couldn't pay the bills or got saddled with a huge debt or if, God forbid, something should happen to her and she didn't get the best possible medical treatment.

She already had surgery earlier this year for a chronic ear infection that just wouldn't go away for 6+ months. I ended up paying $0 for her surgery, just the $80/month insurance premium. During the 6 months she had the infection we probably went to the paediatrician and otolaryngologists at least 20 times, and paid nothing apart from the monthly premium.

I just can't understand how someone with a job can be irresponsible enough to not have at least some insurance.

What kinda insurance is this? ;p what company or plan?

 

[bolil]

Departure doesn't cost anything. Don't cling to dearly to your body, friend, cause one day you're eyes will shut and never open. Principles make all of this shit so easy: Taxes=coercion. Obamacare=funded by taxes. Ergo, the ACA is funded by coercion and is wrong as rain in hell.

Soooo, anyone else here raise a brow when they hear "single payer" as though a monopoly in healthcare OF ALL THINGS is a good idea?

Single payer=single provider. Simple as that.

 

[KurtBoyer25L]

I vote for the Pauls & I believe in limited govt. assistance for medical emergencies, but not Obamacare.

Everything I've ever read on TProgress states that all Republicans, conservatives & libertarians are sub-animal selfish evil wastes of space w/ the IQ of lava rocks, and that everything anyone in those groups says is the opposite of the truth. So, if you're an intellectually consistent member of that website, you'd never listen to anything a Rand Paul supporter has to say, he's just twiddling his handlebar mustache & tying your girlfriend up to some train tracks.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Liberal site: How A Ron Paul Republican Learned To Love Obamacare

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2730801/joshua-pittman/

Joshua Pittman is a 31-year-old self-employed videographer from Montgomery, Alabama. A libertarian Republican who voted for Ron Paul in 2012 and believes that Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) is the future of the GOP, Pittman sees Barack Obama’s presidency as a “failure” who hasn’t lived up to the nation’s expectations.
But on Tuesday morning, Pittman logged on to HealthCare.gov and after some initial glitches and delays, successfully enrolled in a Bronze-level Obamacare health insurance plan. “It took me all day, really,” he says with a laugh. “It kicked me out and told me you have to try again, but I knew what I was getting into with so many people exploring it.”

 

[better-dead-than-fed]

By no means am I trying to take a government handout…it’s not a free handout, you’re paying for this health care, but it’s making it more accessible to more people.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/04/2730801/joshua-pittman/

So it's inflating the population-density, which nature will answer with increased disease, hunger, and suffering for your children. Not a free handout indeed.