No Corporate Tax: How to fund Defense?

[oyarde]

Bullshit.We repudiate the debt in toto and in one fell swoop. It is rotten to the core and is therefore illegitimate. Not a soul in these United States owes so much as a red cent toward this falsely assumed debt. Dissolve the Federal Reserve Bank, seize its assets as well as those of all its members. Hunt those men down globally, capture them, try them, convict them, sentence them, and publicly execute every last one of them, broadcast live to the entire planet as a warning to anyone who trespasses upon us.

Were I king the world would clamor to trade with the good people of the USA. Likewise they would lose control of their basic bodily functions and quake in their shoes at the very hint of a thought of crossing us. THAT is what we should be. Free, strong, friendly, kind, fair, and implacable when offended.

I like it

 

[LibForestPaul]

Those "foreign entities" add the tax onto the price of goods. US manufactures would lose a lot of competition from foreign goods and would be freer to raise their prices. Then if we have a high tarrif on their goods, the other country responds by rasing tarrifs on goods they buy from us- meaning we lose jobs for exporters. Another effect is that as the tariffs are added, the demand for and value of imported goods fall which means you need even higher tariffs to obtain the same level of revenues you were counting on.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/tariff-trade-barrier-basics.asp#axzz1nYu2WRUT


It may seem like you are getting government spending free- paid for by foreigners, but that is not the case- they will be in the prices of things you purchase. The taxes are simply better hidden and you are paying them more discretely. No free ride.

How much trade did Americans have with China over its first 100 years? Did America prosper over the first 100 years. The answer is yes.

 

[Zippyjuan]

To fund today's government via tariffs would require some pretty high tariffs (as I indicated) which would definately effect the economy. It could adjust but would take a long time to get domestic industry up to a level high enough to replace imports- especially oil imports which would effect the prices of everything. What would otherwise be inefficent businesses which would be forced to close due to competition would be allowed to survive- a misallocation of capital?

 

[oyarde]

To fund today's government via tariffs would require some pretty high tariffs (as I indicated) which would definately effect the economy. It could adjust but would take a long time to get domestic industry up to a level high enough to replace imports- especially oil imports which would effect the prices of everything. What would otherwise be inefficent businesses which would be forced to close due to competition would be allowed to survive- a misallocation of capital?

I am not convinced it could be done , or that it would be prudent now.......

 

[Danke]

Bullshit.We repudiate the debt in toto and in one fell swoop. It is rotten to the core and is therefore illegitimate. Not a soul in these United States owes so much as a red cent toward this falsely assumed debt. Dissolve the Federal Reserve Bank, seize its assets as well as those of all its members. Hunt those men down globally, capture them, try them, convict them, sentence them, and publicly execute every last one of them, broadcast live to the entire planet as a warning to anyone who trespasses upon us.

Were I king the world would clamor to trade with the good people of the USA. Likewise they would lose control of their basic bodily functions and quake in their shoes at the very hint of a thought of crossing us. THAT is what we should be. Free, strong, friendly, kind, fair, and implacable when offended.

Exactly. With our military. How would the "creditors" collect? If we really had people power (ie, the states).

 

[Zippyjuan]

Most of the debt is not held by foreigners. Instead a lot of it is in retirement and other investments in the US. Our total debt is $15 trilllion and one third- or $5 trillion- is foreign held. http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt The largest chunk is in Social Security.

 

[virgil47]

To fund today's government via tariffs would require some pretty high tariffs (as I indicated) which would definately effect the economy. It could adjust but would take a long time to get domestic industry up to a level high enough to replace imports- especially oil imports which would effect the prices of everything. What would otherwise be inefficent businesses which would be forced to close due to competition would be allowed to survive- a misallocation of capital?

Only if government spending remains as it is. Cut the spending substantially and tariffs can comfortably pay for what is left of government.

 

[virgil47]

"Defense?" Are you kidding? The best defense in this case is not to have an offense. Standing militaries are ALWAYS meant to keep the people down. They're a jobs program that also secures the government authority structure. Military security means security for rulers, not the people.

Bottom line. At the federal level the US needs a coast guard, a border patrol, and an air defense system. You're talking $50 billion max per year.

Who's going to attack us? I mean really. Mexico? Not with any military they aren't.

Al Qaeda attacked us because of our meddling. Stop meddling and we don't get attacked.

So you are a supporter of the draft? With no standing army the draft would be the only way to assemble an army rapidly enough to defend our country should we be attacked.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Occum's Razor at it's finest.

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

There's your Foreign Policy, BITChEZZZZ. The 2nd Amendment IS foreign policy in many ways.

Unfortunately we can be obliterated by bombs.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

I believe in corporate tax.

It is a embedded sales tax. One of the reasons I think the FairTax has a lot of merit.

 

[Zippyjuan]

It is a embedded sales tax. One of the reasons I think the FairTax has a lot of merit.

Tariffs are also embeded sales taxes. Now if you want to fund the current government size via a FairTax it comes out be be about a 30% sales tax rate on everything sold (in addition to any state or local sales taxes). Unless you are paying an average tax of over 30% (not a marginal tax rate) then a "FairTax" would mean that you are paying more in taxes than you do now. 47% of wage earners end up not owing any US Income taxes so the vast majority of the country would end up paying more.

 

[oyarde]

Tariffs are also embeded sales taxes. Now if you want to fund the current government size via a FairTax it comes out be be about a 30% sales tax rate on everything sold (in addition to any state or local sales taxes). Unless you are paying an average tax of over 30% (not a marginal tax rate) then a "FairTax" would mean that you are paying more in taxes than you do now. 47% of wage earners end up not owing any US Income taxes so the vast majority of the country would end up paying more.

I think it is 49.5 % now ??

 

[No Free Beer]

It is a embedded sales tax. One of the reasons I think the FairTax has a lot of merit.

I don't agree with the FairTax.

It would hurt the poor much more than it would the wealthy. I don't think it's exactly "fair." I don't think the federal government should be able to tax people based on income.

 

[oyarde]

I could probably figure out a way to run authorized Article One , Section Eight Federal spending that is needed with nothing but a gas tax similar to what exists for roads , bridges , post office I could run to break even , coining money could be run to break even , run the rest , weights , measures , defense off of a tip jar.

 

[Black Flag]

Where? And to that point,,can you even find the word "Corporation" in the Constitution?

it is my understanding that Corporations are a later invention of the legal system in collusion with Government entities (Graft).

They are an invention of Government, and are at their root an evil thing.

 

[Black Flag]

So why do so many of you believe the only way to fund defense is via taxation?

The first "defense" forces were armed by the people themselves - the militia bought their own guns or had wealthy patrons pay for them (and the uniforms and the training). No taxes required.

If military defense is valued, people will be willing to pay for it without having other people steal their money to pay for it.....

 

[Zippyjuan]

So why do so many of you believe the only way to fund defense is via taxation?

The first "defense" forces were armed by the people themselves - the militia bought their own guns or had wealthy patrons pay for them (and the uniforms and the training). No taxes required.

If military defense is valued, people will be willing to pay for it without having other people steal their money to pay for it.....

That might have worked fine when the biggest weapon you may face is a cannon or musket. Modern weapons aren't cheap. Perhaps you can kick in a couple billion?

 

[osan]

Unfortunately we can be obliterated by bombs.

Relax sphincter.

Now pop head out.

Feel better?

Now, to become serious, ask yourself how exactly do the bombs get here to destroy us? They don't appear out of thin air. Someone, somewhere must deliver them. Delivery can just about always be detected, especially when a lot of bombs are being delivered over vast expanses of real estate.

I have lived all over the USA, coast to coast. I have flown over the USA both as a passenger and as a pilot. I have driven from coast to coast several times in my life. I have been physically upon the soil of, at last count, 43 of the 50 states. I have lived in large square states such as AZ and OR and have stood in places where one can see not even the smallest hint of another human being to the horizon. My point in all this is to emphasize just how large this nation is. It is humongous. It is one of the largest in the world. Few others match it in sheer expanse. Just how, I ask, do you think enough bombs will make it across the oceans from whichever imagined enemies to "destroy" us? The only nation that could even remotely harm us in such fashion is Russia as they are the only nation with the volume of nuke and delivery platforms. China is a joke, though making progress in the wrong direction. Nobody else is even close. So whence cometh the rain of destruction via bombing?

This brand of "thinking" you display is a large part of the problem. People get all agitated and fraught with fear because some talking head starts yapping. People are, in general, too lazy or lacking in intellect to calmly dissect what is being fed them and they go apoplectic in response to the specter of YAB (yet another boogie).

Get a grip on yourself, pop your head out and try using your brains for something more than just a hat rack. No offense, but the implications of your statement are not flattering.

 

[Black Flag]

That might have worked fine when the biggest weapon you may face is a cannon or musket. Modern weapons aren't cheap. Perhaps you can kick in a couple billion?

It worked fine and the militia could muster up the funds to buy their muskets and cannons! Methinks you do not understand the relative cost of such weapons were upon the citizens - !!

And it would be no different now. It appears "big numbers" dazzle you and are insurmountable - yet, Exxon seems capable of raising a few hundred billion dollars it deems necessary to build oil platforms all over the world.... and there thousands upon thousands of companies that raise billions upon billions for their operations as well.

Why do you believe this is impossible simply because it is the military?

 

[Black Flag]

This brand of "thinking" you display is a large part of the problem. People get all agitated and fraught with fear because some talking head starts yapping. People are, in general, too lazy or lacking in intellect to calmly dissect what is being fed them and they go apoplectic in response to the specter of YAB (yet another boogie).

Get a grip on yourself, pop your head out and try using your brains for something more than just a hat rack. No offense, but the implications of your statement are not flattering.

Exactly.

Think about it.... in WW2, Germany couldn't cross a few dozen miles of water to invade England...
...and the USA was completely incapable of crossing a few thousand miles of water and invading France.

They had to pile up the largest fleet in history around England first, over a couple of years... and then, it was barely enough.

The US has the two largest oceans in the world on either side.
It has one, very friendly, massively large country with a tiny population to the North.
It has one, friendly, country with a moderate population to the South.

...that's it...

And People think the US needs untold billions to defend the country???

The US is unconquerable - and that is even if it had no army.