New York City Bans Smoking in Public

[Kregisen]

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/23/news/la-heb-new-york-outdoor-smoking-ban-20110223

New York City is the latest city to make headlines by passing an outdoor smoking ban that would apply to parks and beaches. Other cities have enacted similar smoking bans in public places, but evidence may be scant as to whether they really clear the air.

The American Cancer Society reports on the dangers of secondhand smoke here. But when it comes to smoking outdoors, the organization says: “There is no research in the medical literature as yet that shows cigarette odors cause cancer in people.”

And the New York Times in an opinion piece earlier this month says the mayor and the city "have overreached" by prohibiting smoking in places like Times Square. It says: "No smoking at the crossroads of the world? The vortex of tourism that brings smokers and nonsmokers in great numbers? The site of the world’s most famous New Year's Eve party, where who knows what goes on? All of this takes the mayor's nannying too far, even for those of us who want to avoid the hazards of secondhand smoke."

That's not to say that secondhand smoke is benign. MedlinePlus sums up the dangers nicely: "Health effects of exposure to secondhand smoke include lung cancer, nasal sinus cancer, respiratory tract infections and heart disease. There is no safe amount of secondhand smoke. Children, pregnant women, older people and people with heart or breathing problems should be especially careful."

The British Medical Journal published two opinion pieces on each side of the outdoor smoking ban in 2008. Professors from New Zealand wrote in support: "The central argument is that outdoor bans will reduce smoking being modelled to children as normal behaviour and thus cut the uptake of smoking. Outdoor smoke-free policies may in some circumstances (such as crowded locations like sports stadiums) reduce the health effects of secondhand smoke; will reduce fires and litter; and are likely to help smokers' attempts at quitting."

Simon Chapman, an Australian professor of public health, countered that science doesn't support such bans. He wrote in part: "There are few differences between the chemistry of tobacco smoke and that generated by incomplete combustion of any biomass: leaves, campfires, petrol, or barbecued meat. Secondhand smoke is not so uniquely noxious that it justifies extraordinary controls of such stringency that zero tolerance outdoors is the only acceptable policy. Park barbecues aren't banned for the obvious reason that the amount of smoke involved is trivial. Zero tolerance of tobacco smoke in outdoor public settings is nakedly paternalistic."

Nakedly paternalistic, perhaps, but to people with asthma and "breathing problems," what constitutes a "trivial" amount of smoke may be debatable. (Chapman does delve into that further in his paper.)

And we're guessing this debate will continue -- in more places.

The supporters of this ban admit the reason why they want it is for social control. They want to force people to stop smoking because it's unhealthy to do. That's one of the most immoral things a government can do. Taking away the freedoms of everyone is worse than killing someone IMO.


I don't smoke. I don't like secondhand smoke but I've debated this about a year ago, and every study that suggested secondhand smoke might have an effect was performed in an indoor environment with people constantly breathing in smoke.

To suggest walking by someone and getting a slight odor of cigarette smoke is a health issue and should be banned just creates double standards. It's ridiculous to think you can be in public and not come into contact with other people, such as people spreading germs, sicknesses, etc. It's called being in public and if you can't live with other people, don't go in public.


I'm not sure how much longer freedom will last when shit like this happens everyday.

 

[dblee]

gives me even more reasons NOT to visit NYC again.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I'm not sure how much longer freedom will last when shit like this happens everyday.

Lol what? Smoking should be banned in all public places. There's nothing I hate more than trailing along someone smoking a cigarette, getting that nasty stench in my face and ashes in my eye. Freedom =/= ruining someone else's health.

 

[dblee]

Lol what? Smoking should be banned in all public places. There's nothing I hate more than trailing along someone smoking a cigarette, getting that nasty stench in my face and ashes in my eye. Freedom =/= ruining someone else's health.

You're free to walk out of my way.

 

[April1775]

"I don't like being exposed to Kenny G's music, cigarette smoke or patchouli oil, but I will defend the right of other folks to have all that junk, the right of business owners to allow it, and my right not to have to be around it. Government should not regulate anything that citizens can avoid by turning around and walking out." -
--Wyoming State Senator, Cale Case (R)
Cale is one of three libertarians out of 90 in our state houses, and he's sometimes called "The Ron Paul of Wyoming."

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

"I don't like being exposed to Kenny G's music, cigarette smoke or patchouli oil, but I will defend the right of other folks to have all that junk, the right of business owners to allow it, and my right not to have to be around it. Government should not regulate anything that citizens can avoid by turning around and walking out." -
--Wyoming State Senator, Cale Case (R)
Cale is one of three libertarians out of 90 in our state houses, and he's sometimes called "The Ron Paul of Wyoming."

Lol wut? People smoke outside the doors of places all the time here. Next time I'll fly through a window.

 

[Nastynate]

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/23/news/la-heb-new-york-outdoor-smoking-ban-20110223



The supporters of this ban admit the reason why they want it is for social control. They want to force people to stop smoking because it's unhealthy to do. That's one of the most immoral things a government can do. Taking away the freedoms of everyone is worse than killing someone IMO.


I don't smoke. I don't like secondhand smoke but I've debated this about a year ago, and every study that suggested secondhand smoke might have an effect was performed in an indoor environment with people constantly breathing in smoke.

To suggest walking by someone and getting a slight odor of cigarette smoke is a health issue and should be banned just creates double standards. It's ridiculous to think you can be in public and not come into contact with other people, such as people spreading germs, sicknesses, etc. It's called being in public and if you can't live with other people, don't go in public.


I'm not sure how much longer freedom will last when shit like this happens everyday.

So are they going to ban car exhaust next? It is much more dangerous to your health than cigarette smoke. This is just ridiculous this is the next step in to taking away as much freedom as they can before the people push back.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/23/news/la-heb-new-york-outdoor-smoking-ban-20110223

The supporters of this ban admit the reason why they want it is for social control. They want to force people to stop smoking because it's unhealthy to do. That's one of the most immoral things a government can do. Taking away the freedoms of everyone is worse than killing someone IMO.

Be very, very afraid if you see the the phrase "in public" in any legislation, without defining it. Many years ago, laws were passed that defined "in public" to include bath houses, tea houses and yes, your bedroom. This was all about social control. They were anti-sodomy laws.

-t

 

[devil21]

Lol what? Smoking should be banned in all public places. There's nothing I hate more than trailing along someone smoking a cigarette, getting that nasty stench in my face and ashes in my eye. Freedom =/= ruining someone else's health.

The hits just keep on coming from the Warrior_on_Freedom. How is public, outdoor smoking an infringement on someone else's liberties? You can't seriously think that open air smoking is actually contributing to any second hand smoke. Be serious. And how does supporting banning a personal choice make for "Freedom"?

Remind me not to join the Coffee Party. Apparently it's a bunch of nanny-stater, central planners.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

Now that smoking is primarily a behavior associated with the dregs of society, they will look to ban it.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

The hits just keep on coming from the Warrior_on_Freedom. How is public, outdoor smoking an infringement on someone else's liberties? You can't seriously think that open air smoking is actually contributing to any second hand smoke. Be serious. And how does supporting banning a personal choice make for "Freedom"?

Remind me not to join the Coffee Party. Apparently it's a bunch of nanny-stater, central planners.

Come back to me when you prove smoking doesn't cause cancer.

You wouldn't want people poisoning your food or water, so why would you want them poisoning your air?

 

[silverhandorder]

While I do not think smoking should be banned in public it does sometimes intrude on other people. For example think of space as a form of property. While you occupy space in public you own that space. So if someone is standing next to you, you should not light up. If you do you are intruding on their space and making it lose it value. To be consistent with libertarian analysis and to enforce such a system would be impossible. As such it should be something that is solved between both individuals. In all honesty this just points out problems with things like public streets and etc. If we want to be really radical we should propose privatizing public space.

 

[robert9712000]

The question isnt if you can get cancer from coming in contact with cigarette smoke ,but the percent of risk that if you come into contact the chances of you developing cancer and dieing from cigarette smoke.Using that approach the chances of you dieing from heart disease by consuming fatty foods is a greater risk.

Should we ban fatty foods? because mcdonalds and other places that have cholesterol in there food put me at risk because i dont know whats in it.Plus im at a greater risk from dieng from a car crash because of others driving into me against my will.

Sounds dumb to say but the point is theres a point when you have to accept that life has risk and you can not regulate all risk out of life.Youd be better off to just enjoy what time you have on this planet and not worry about what might kill you.

 

[devil21]

Come back to me when you prove smoking doesn't cause cancer.

You wouldn't want people poisoning your food or water, so why would you want them poisoning your air?

Prove that smoking OUTSIDE causes anything other than you getting your panties in a wad.

 

[April1775]

How come the places they push this crap the hardest are usually the places with the worst air pollution?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Come back to me when you prove smoking doesn't cause cancer.
You wouldn't want people poisoning your food or water, so why would you want them poisoning your air?

World wide cancer deaths are projected to double by 2030.

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2010...-deaths-to-double-by-2030/UPI-58901275515038/

Yet smoking rates continue to decline.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/28432/smoking-rates-around-world-how-americans-compare.aspx

It's not "poison", it's a tiny piece of shredded plant matter, smoldering, for fuck's sake.

It's only a matter of time before somebody sues because they smelled frying bacon in their apartment and it violated their religious beliefs.

Freedom also means that, instead of whining about every single, little irritation in life, you shine it on and carry about your business.

"That's the trouble with freedom, sometimes you just have to tolerate the nonsense too." - Ron Paul

 

[specsaregood]

Ya'll need to stop smoking. Not because its is bad for you and others or because it smells bad. But because you are feeding the beast with an additional billions of dollars of tax money. That should be reason enough. note: you can ignore this if you are growing, curing, and rolling your own.

 

[Slutter McGee]

Lol what? Smoking should be banned in all public places. There's nothing I hate more than trailing along someone smoking a cigarette, getting that nasty stench in my face and ashes in my eye. Freedom =/= ruining someone else's health.

Then walk a few more feet behind me. Most smokers try to be courteous. I know I do. But this attitude from the public makes me want to blow smoke in somebodies face.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

 

[Slutter McGee]

Come back to me when you prove smoking doesn't cause cancer.

You wouldn't want people poisoning your food or water, so why would you want them poisoning your air?

Comeback to me when you want to a warrior for freedom rather than a whiny little girl for freedom.

Slutter McGee

 

[ifthenwouldi]

Most smokers try to be courteous.

Not here in NC, they aren't. I'm asthmatic, so cigarette smoking is a major nuisance for me, but I don't mind it out in the open as long as people as respectful about it.

But the reality is that most smokers here are NOT respectful about it. In fact, most of them go out of their way to hold their cigarettes AWAY from their bodies when not holding them to their lips. If asked to smoke outside, MOST of them smoke directly next to the door, which completely defeats the purpose.

My honest opinion is that a little more respect from smokers would have made this whole "ban it in public" stuff a lot less intriguing for non-smokers.