New Video: Strangebedfellows (How far we've come)

[constituent]

I have debated many people like you and I am going to agree to disagree with you on this topic. I realize you don't get the principle because you don't think this is about civil liberties. It has everything to do about that and I would not pledge my support with out doing the research.

Many people like me?

I see you're at home w/ the collectivists on the left... cool.

..and you're right, i don't think this is about civil liberties. Our liberties exist because we are individuals...

also, tell me how the ACLU and dailykos feel about my "civil" liberties as protected by the second amendment.

Question this we must and if they fail we have the right to critisize it but there are some issues IMO that are worth joining forces over.

If they fail at what exactly? Most of the Accountability Now PACs stated goals are missed opportunities, chances come and gone.

Tell us, what is their plan?

The 4th amendement being one of them, no harm no foul.

How about the first amendment (see McCain-Feingold, yes Russ Feingold)?

To think we are going to progess more by picking people apart rather than (trying) a common alliance is fallacy.

Ok, and that sentence is a strawman. No one suggests we will progress by picking people apart. However, it is my stance that we will regress by turning into causeheads manipulated by the "left" in order to raise money for a democratic party hack PAC. All the while, further hampering future legitimate requests for funds for projects that might actually stand to benefit the RPR and conservatism in general.

And again, what is the common alliance? Exactly what benefit will the ron paul community see from donating their money to help elect democrats?

I noticed you said something about taking FISA to a federal court... Do you have an actual case in mind, does Accountability Now PAC?

Even if there were (there isn't, you know it and i know it), would it be Accountability Now PAC providing the legal defense fund?

I would be interested in hearing what your opinion on how to over turn FISA?

Want to actually overturn FISA? Have your buddies on the left lobby for their democratic congress to repeal the whole damn thing.

Again, secret courts are "unAmerican," and I have no interest in seeing a convenient restructuring that will serve as nothing more than a convenient rallying point for dems.

What exactly does Accountability Now PAC actually plan to do that would lead to overturning FISA, i have yet to see.

So far, it's all been about a money bomb to hold those "accountable" for not bowing to the wishes of the left-o-sphere and nothing more.

Ideally what I would like to see happen is see the CFL become the new ACLU backed by our Constitutional beliefs. To me that is victory and I anxiously await to see the CFL next move because that is where I would like to pledge my support.

Not really certain what that has to do with Accountability Now PAC....

You have legitimate concerns but you also have some back handed insults.

Sometimes you get what you give. If your buddies at accountability now pac and btm want a friendlier reception around these parts, spread the word that they might consider their actions/insults before they come here and bad mouth anyone who dares express strategic/tactical concerns.

The whole Trevor Lyman stole my bicycle thing is tired

I'm not even sure wtf that is supposed to mean.

and to be frank it allienates a lot of the core supporters from these forums.

lol, what alienates people from these forums most is the eternal goading for cash while refusing to answer legitimate questions concerns (you have yet to address any of the points raised in the post above... which serves as an excellent example).


......


Seriously though, it's not just me who sees through this garbage so you can make this as personal as you like, but the concerns still stand and the inability to even discuss them on your part and the part of other btm/anpac fanboys speaks volumes.



Here is a really simple direct question:

What exactly will the money you are asking us to donate be spent on?

 

[Jamsie 567]

Many people like me?

I see you're at home w/ the collectivists on the left... cool.

..and you're right, i don't think this is about civil liberties. Our liberties exist because we are individuals...

also, tell me how the ACLU and dailykos feel about my "civil" liberties as protected by the second amendment.



If they fail at what exactly? Most of the Accountability Now PACs stated goals are missed opportunities, chances come and gone.

Tell us, what is their plan?



How about the first amendment (see McCain-Feingold, yes Russ Feingold)?



Ok, and that sentence is a strawman. No one suggests we will progress by picking people apart. However, it is my stance that we will regress by turning into causeheads manipulated by the "left" in order to raise money for a democratic party hack PAC. All the while, further hampering future legitimate requests for funds for projects that might actually stand to benefit the RPR and conservatism in general.

And again, what is the common alliance? Exactly what benefit will the ron paul community see from donating their money to help elect democrats?

I noticed you said something about taking FISA to a federal court... Do you have an actual case in mind, does Accountability Now PAC?

Even if there were (there isn't, you know it and i know it), would it be Accountability Now PAC providing the legal defense fund?



Want to actually overturn FISA? Have your buddies on the left lobby for their democratic congress to repeal the whole damn thing.

Again, secret courts are "unAmerican," and I have no interest in seeing a convenient restructuring that will serve as nothing more than a convenient rallying point for dems.

What exactly does Accountability Now PAC actually plan to do that would lead to overturning FISA, i have yet to see.

So far, it's all been about a money bomb to hold those "accountable" for not bowing to the wishes of the left-o-sphere and nothing more.



Not really certain what that has to do with Accountability Now PAC....



Sometimes you get what you give. If your buddies at accountability now pac and btm want a friendlier reception around these parts, spread the word that they might consider their actions/insults before they come here and bad mouth anyone who dares express strategic/tactical concerns.



I'm not even sure wtf that is supposed to mean.



lol, what alienates people from these forums most is the eternal goading for cash while refusing to answer legitimate questions concerns (you have yet to address any of the points raised in the post above... which serves as an excellent example).


......


Seriously though, it's not just me who sees through this garbage so you can make this as personal as you like, but the concerns still stand and the inability to even discuss them on your part and the part of other btm/anpac fanboys speaks volumes.



Here is a really simple direct question:

What exactly will the money you are asking us to donate be spent on?

What I mean't by people like you is your condesending remarks and know it all replies. Which is blatantly obvious since your first post. You fail at seeing the over all goal while being hung up on petty differences. You now call me a collectivist on the left really? Then you say your not trying to make this personal give me a break. I am a Republican conservative but open minded enough to help assist in a cause that does promote my interest the 4th amendment.

I am not lobbying for some big social program. I am lobbying for my Constitution.

Let me break it down since you over looked it the first time. The money will go to marketing, advertising, lobbying and community education. Which is what is explained before and I also posted this below as well.

(2nd time posted)
The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.

You said:
Want to actually overturn FISA? Have your buddies on the left lobby for their democratic congress to repeal the whole damn thing.

(What the hell do you think this is about seriously man)

This is about Civil Liberties to me because the corruption has destroyed the 4th amendment by warrantless wire tapping and telecom immunity. Yes we get our rights from the creator but last I checked he failed to keep the 4th amendmant in tact. Who cares about indvidual rights if we have none left. Is the belief more important than reality, I think not.

It requires a little bit of courage to get out of your comfort zone. They explanied everything good enough whether or not you choose to see it. The FREEDOM message will bring us together not divde us. I am debating one issue here and you are trying to debate multiple issues. I am not joining the Democratic Party I am supporting this particular measure. This is not a Republican or Democrat issue this is a human issue about our rights.

I am going to leave you with a quote. I will also leave you the last word in this argument. I explained my point of view and I hope more people in the RP community get involved.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." --Plato

 

[ItsTime]

Ok, and that sentence is a strawman. No one suggests we will progress by picking people apart. However, it is my stance that we will regress by turning into causeheads manipulated by the "left" in order to raise money for a democratic party hack PAC. All the while, further hampering future legitimate requests for funds for projects that might actually stand to benefit the RPR and conservatism in general.

QFT.

BTM has no idea what they are doing.

 

[CUnknown]

It's very sad, constituent, that you would rather turn away potential allies than work with people who might disagree with you on a few things.

The radical left are our natural allies in the fight against the status quo. Organizations like the ACLU are our natural allies in the fight for civil liberties. No one is being "manipulated" by anyone. BTM is trying to advance our cause. You apparently would rather see it left behind. No one is saying you have to give money to the ACLU if you don't want to, but speaking out against it in this way is counterproductive.

 

[constituent]

1) The money will go to marketing, advertising, lobbying and community education.

...

Yes we get our rights from the creator but last I checked he failed to keep the 4th amendmant in tact. Who cares about indvidual rights if we have none left.

...

2) They explanied everything good enough whether or not you choose to see it.

....


3) "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." --Plato

1) If this sort of mentality is the basis upon which you (or they) plan on "educating," well i will let your comment speak for itself.

2) Yes, they did explain everything good enough to make their goals/intentions perfectly clear. It is unfortunate that your desire to protect BTM as they attempt to ingratiate themselves to the liberal blog-o-sphere at the expense of legitimacy blinds you from seeing them.

An easy place to start would be by reading the media links on the ANPAC site.

(there are a few choice excerpts listed in the post above)

Their words, like yours, speak for themselves.

3) That appears to happen whether we participate or not. In politics it appears the biggest bully, the greatest frauds will always win.

P.S. if they were truly concerned with the fourth amendment the target would be HIIPA... I don't see that happening though, as it is a vital piece of the "Universal Health Care" puzzle. "Opposing" FISA is a matter of convenience, not principle.

 

[ItsTime]

It's very sad, constituent, that you would rather turn away potential allies than work with people who might disagree with you on a few things.

The radical left are our natural allies in the fight against the status quo. Organizations like the ACLU are our natural allies in the fight for civil liberties. No one is being "manipulated" by anyone. BTM is trying to advance our cause. You apparently would rather see it left behind. No one is saying you have to give money to the ACLU if you don't want to, but speaking out against it in this way is counterproductive.

they are not asking us to give money to the ACLU, they are asking us to give our money to a far left pac. That has used money in the past to attack conservatism. Now btm is asking for CONSERVATIVES to give TIME and MONEY to the very people that attack us??

you cant make horse shit taste like cake, though BTM is trying to cover it in chocolate

 

[CUnknown]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties. They are our allies when it comes to civil liberties. It's a show of solidarity.

If you don't agree with a particlar moneybomb, just don't participate. Attempting to derail it just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[constituent]

The money will go to marketing, advertising, lobbying and community education.

....


It requires a little bit of courage to get out of your comfort zone.

Here Jamsie 567, let me school you real quick on "community education" and the "courage to get out of your comfort zone."


edit: links removed so as to not blow my cover (though i'm not really hiding).
if you're interested in what was contained therein, just PM me and i'll shoot them over.

You want to educate, there's how you do it... and it didn't cost a cent.

(2nd time posted)
The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.

Take your slogans and shove 'em.

 

[constituent]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties. They are our allies when it comes to civil liberties. It's a show of solidarity.

If you don't agree with a particlar moneybomb, just don't participate. Attempting to derail it just doesn't seem right to me.

Only room for those willing to shutup and fall in line around here?

No one is attempting to "derail" anything btw, just pointing out the fallacy that filling accountability now pac's coffers will in some way benefit the RP Revolution.

 

[CUnknown]

Only room for those willing to shutup and fall in line around here?

No one is attempting to "derail" anything btw, just pointing out the fallacy that filling accountability now pac's coffers will in some way benefit the RP Revolution.

You've made your opinion clear, and then some. You keep hammering at this, and one has to wonder if your real goal isn't to hinder the moneybomb. Certainly seems like it, right?

You know what they say: lead, follow, or get out of the way. You're not leading, and you're certainly not following. You've made your opinion known, it's time to step aside. Saying that people have been "manipulated" into donating to the moneybomb just isn't appropriate. It shows a lack of respect, imo.

 

[constituent]

You've made your opinion clear, and then some. You keep hammering at this, and one has to wonder if your real goal isn't to hinder the moneybomb. Certainly seems like it, right?

Well, if by hinder the money bomb you mean educate others in the ron paul community as to the realities of where the money is going... yes.

If by hinder the money bomb you mean encouraging others to show a vote of "no confidence" in democratic party hacks eager to exploit perceived goodwill amongst the ron paul community, guilty of that charge as well.

Proudly guilty.

You know what they say: lead, follow, or get out of the way. You're not leading, and you're certainly not following.

Your opinion.

You've made your opinion known, it's time to step aside.

That is your determination to make?

btw, I've already asked once that my account be deleted, if my words are so upsetting to you i suggest that you second my motion in the form of a PM to the admins. Until then I will continue to voice my opinion on this board.

 

[constituent]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties.

LoL, right.

 

[ItsTime]

this thread needs:



BTM cant raise money for shit anyway. Really, they are a failure. No really cause for concern but I am sure they will lie about how much they helped blah blah blah. hurt our movement even more when this pac starts to attack conservatism right before the election Ya for be short sighted!

 

[ItsTime]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties. They are our allies when it comes to civil liberties. It's a show of solidarity.

If you don't agree with a particlar moneybomb, just don't participate. Attempting to derail it just doesn't seem right to me.

see post above. BTM is a failure is this will just be added to the list. Go ahead mods start deleting my posts. (sarcasm)

 

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

has Strangebedfellows contact or been contacted by the National Initiative For Democracy?

 

[bomybomy]

I'm pretty sure the Dems are against it solely because Bush is for it. I doubt there is any principle at all behind it.

 

[Jamsie 567]

I'm pretty sure the Dems are against it solely because Bush is for it. I doubt there is any principle at all behind it.

There are lots of good Dems out there granted we support different policies. I think the best approach is show them our message and I guarantee many will see the light. How many people on these forums used to be Democrats I bet a lot.

In the famous words of Ron Paul. The Freedom message can unite us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY

 

[shelly]

Jamsie567, this video is amazing!!! Thank you for creating it.

The only way our movement is going to gain traction is if we reach out to new people. As Jamsie pointed out, how many of us were once Democrats?

I see this as an opportunity to educate people outside of our own group about the importance of fighting for our individual liberties. The transpartisan aspect makes it more newsworthy, which gets our message exposed to a totally new (and fairly mainstream) audience.

That's one of the things I like best about it. I don't know that we would have been written up in the Wall Street Journal or have 200+ liberal bloggers writing about holding these corrupt lawmakers accountable if Accountability Now didn't exist.

We've all seen Washington's quote "Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth..." so, let's start planting some seeds!!!

 

[Kade]

They have been a staunch opponet of the Patriot Act and many other civil liberty cases. I think you can find dirt on any organization but since you are claiming what you said it's important people know they are a non profit organization that works through legislative, litigation and community education.

They been around since World War 1 and have been holding congress accountable for years. If we have a successful suit against FISA that advances our cause. If you got a better idea to get rid of FISA lets hear it. These guys are pros and sometimes you need to step out side the box to win.

I am using my talents to help them and hope other RP supporters do the same.

Outstanding. As a contributor to DailyKos and a member of the ACLU, I can vouch for the absolute validity of the willingness to cross the lines for this common goal. We will stick a RP Republican in over a neo-con any day...

 

[Jamsie 567]

One of their big targets (at least according to Glenn Greenwald at salon.com) is House Majority Leader, Steny Hoyer (MD-5). Fortunately, he's opposed by a RP Republican, Collins Bailey!! Glenn, if you want to throw some of that support a little farther upstate, that's cool too.

Z

This is a key point man thank you. I am presently talking to Bedfellows to see what will be done with Hoyer. I know they vigouroulsy oppose Hoyer he is a sell out and one of the key enablers who supported the FISA amendments. Collins is the guy that I am backing and I think Greenwald needs to clarify his support in the MD 5th district more clear.

If they want the RP community on board they better position their support carefullly.

I will keep you guys posted once I get more news.