New Video: Strangebedfellows (How far we've come)

[Jamsie 567]

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[torchbearer]

When Dems and Reps come together in D.C., that usually ends up bad for us.

 

[torchbearer]

guns and butter.

 

[zadrock]

One of their big targets (at least according to Glenn Greenwald at salon.com) is House Majority Leader, Steny Hoyer (MD-5). Fortunately, he's opposed by a RP Republican, Collins Bailey!! Glenn, if you want to throw some of that support a little farther upstate, that's cool too.

Z

 

[Jamsie 567]

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[tomveil]

I'm all for working with anybody who advances our cause. Who knows, maybe we can show a few of em what we're all about

 

[constituent]

I'm all for working with anybody who advances our cause. Who knows, maybe we can show a few of em what we're all about

the ACLU, dailykos, et. al. are not attempting to advance our cause.

they're looking for bodies/money only.

 

[sean43]

<div style='background-color:#e9e9e9; width: 425px;'><object id='A891526' quality='high' data='http://aka.zero.jibjab.com/client/zero/ClientZero_EmbedViewer.swf?external_make_id=IaxF6U3JVpEuQpo7&service=sendables.jibjab.com' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='transparent' height='319' width='425'><param name='wmode' value='transparent'></param><param name='movie' value='http://aka.zero.jibjab.com/client/zero/ClientZero_EmbedViewer.swf?external_make_id=IaxF6U3JVpEuQpo7&service=sendables.jibjab.com'></param><param name='scaleMode' value='showAll'></param><param name='quality' value='high'></param><param name='allowNetworking' value='all'></param><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='FlashVars' value='external_make_id=IaxF6U3JVpEuQpo7&service=sendables.jibjab.com'></param><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always'></param></object><div style='text-align:center; width:435px; margin-top:6px;'>Send a JibJab Sendables® <a href='http://sendables.jibjab.com/sendables'>eCard</a> Today!</div></div><img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/CIMP/bT*xJmx*PTEyMTY2NDY3MjA4NTYmcHQ9MTIxNjY*NjkxOTEwMSZwPTE5MTEzMSZkPSZuPSZnPTI=.jpg" />

 

[Jamsie 567]

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[Jamsie 567]

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[constituent]

1) ACLU joins fight over Ron Paul sign


2) My point is there are sometimes we should team up with them for a good cause.

1) i lol'd. this forum was a one-stop shop for fighting neighborhood associations and city ordinances prohibiting signs for most of 2007.

2) what are we teaming up w/ them for again?

 

[constituent]

Help us put in an end to FISA and become a Strangebedfellow today!
More info: http://www.accountabilitynowpac.com/

Oh yea, that's right. Well, hey since you've come here to ask us for money, i've got this list of concerns that perhaps you can address first. If you would kindly help me out w/ some feedback and your thoughts it would be much appreciated.

to those who've read it before, i apologize for the copy and paste job.






Accountability Now PAC

1) "Accountability PAC has already raised 300K"(?)

This isn't exactly correct. "ActBlue" of which Accountability Now PAC is merely a member
has raised $350K for any number of varied democratic causes. Accountability now, accounts
for a mere 10K of that money.

Who is giving people the impression that Accountability Now PAC has raised >300K?

2) Support Russ Feingold?

I don't remember where I saw this, but one of the original ideas was to have people donate
money to specificially help Russ Feingold so as to (somehow) "send a message" to Obama.

3) Money Bomb to send signal before FISA Vote? FAIL

The FISA vote already happened, so what is the money for again?

Why does it always have to be money? If we are to unite, let us unite around cause
and with our sharpened pens.

4) Promise to take out "full-page" advert. day before vote? FAIL

Though the ANPAC fanboys will point out that a full-page ad was run,
it was not actually run by ANPAC, it was however run by Blue America PAC and
Color of Change (yea, the same color of change that brought us such race-baiting/collectivist incidents as "free the Jena 6")

5) Who is to speak for "the revolution" in terms of when and with whom we
do and do not align "ourselves" with the political "left?"

A situation that is very nuanced, admittedly.

Rather shameful to see it hasn't been given more thought.

Does RP know that this organization (which he endorsed), which has aligned itself through partnership with the new organization bearing his name, is out acting on behalf of the ACLU and Democratic Party establishment (essentially in his name)?

If so... well, it's like the old cigarette ad said, "you've come a long way baby."

6) Exactly to whom and for what is the money going?

A nagging question. Sorta like the blimp.

AFAIK, this PACs primary goal (atleast in terms of the project they are ostensibly raising funds for), is to give money first to themselves (naturally BTM gets a cut for their hard work representing "us") so they can.... do what again? That's right, make donations to democrats. How about if individuals want to donate to the dems, they just go ahead and do it?

7) What is the benefit of participating to the larger Ron Paul community (particularly the conservative wing)?

8) Media Links:




the low bar - http://www.thelowbar.com/2008/07/fis...rture-cya.html

"I've been really spun up about Obama's FISA vote, scratching my head trying to find reasoning for his reversal, which felt like a serious kick in the crotch. But while Obama's flip-flop on the issue was heartbreaking, he wasn't really the one to blame for this capitualtion [sic]..."

Uhhhh.... do what? He wasn't to blame for his own actions? pardon my french, but wtf is that s*?

"The bottom line is that way back in the days after 9/11, and many times since, the Democrats totally caved in to demands by the Bush administration, demands that were very likely illegal, and/or un-Constitutional. Cowards all, they were trying to act tough or avoid looking weak, so they bought into the chest-thumping Bush bluster which dictated that in order to be tough we had to throw away all those sissy civil liberties we enjoyed."

No, that's not the bottom line. I'm not going to go all "conspiratorial," but c'mon you know better, i know better.





Glen Greenwald - http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa.../11/democrats/

"UPDATE II: I've now had the opportunity to read the full text of the House FISA bill which they unveiled today. It is actually surprisingly good, though the real question, of course, is how committed they really are to having it enacted, as opposed to this being merely a base-placating measure with the real intention of enacting something virtually identical to the Rockefeller/Cheney bill once it is returned from the Senate."

Wow, the FISA bill was "surprisingly good?" Then why the need to fund your PAC to fight against it?





Wall Street Journal - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121443403835305037.html

"Liberal activists and supporters of the Texas Republican and former presidential candidate plan to join forces Thursday and begin a "money bomb" protest of lawmakers who support telecom immunity in the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act..."

Really, I plan to join forces thursday? AFAIK, the only individuals who had agreed to "join forces" before the money bomb was announced were Trevor Lyman and Rick Williams.

"The effort is timed to coincide with a planned Senate vote ..."

Missed that opportunity, eh?





Rawstory.com -http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Strange_bedfellows_team_up_to_lobby_0620.htmlhttp://rawstory.com/news/2008/Strange_bedfellows_team_up_to_lobby_0620.html

"The American Civil Liberties Union is teaming with supporters of former Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul and scores of liberal bloggers to pressure Congress on the surveillance law; the effort is calling itself Strange Bedfellows..."

"Parallel to the civil liberties' lobbying push is an effort being spearheaded by the Blue America PAC that aims to raise $350,000 to campaign against lawmakers who support giving immunity to the telecommunications companies, including moderate and conservative Democrats. Markos Moulitsas, founder of DailyKos, laid bare the challenge Thursday"

Wait a minute... BTM forgot to mention the ACLU was behind this.

...and Markos Moulitsas (dailyKos)?

Is our place in "the revolution" really that of the left's "useful idiots?"

And what ever happened to full disclosure?



DemocraticUnderground.org - http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x3480169

"A broad alliance of strange bedfellows is now forming to support a campaign to fight the gutting of FISA (The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) with the intent to work together on all civil liberties, constitutional rights and rule of law issues."

We're against the gutting of FISA? Hell, i'm for the absolute destruction of FISA, not the democratic controlled oppositions' advocated convenient restructuring.

Anyone advocating secret courts, in any capacity, is no friend of the RPR

"The ACLU is joining with activists from the Ron Paul campaign, represented by Break the Matrix, Rick Williams and Trevor Lymon, and civil liberties writer Glenn Greenwald of Salon, and leading liberal bloggers including, Jane Hamsher of firedoglake"

Again, the ACLU? Why (conveniently) no mention of who is really behind this whole deal?

Typical.


Having said my peace, i now feel better.

Please, if you disagree (or agree w/ anything i've said) feel free to refute or reinforce any of these points as you see fit.




Also: see signature line below

 

[Jamsie 567]

1) i lol'd. this forum was a one-stop shop for fighting neighborhood associations and city ordinances prohibiting signs for most of 2007.
2) what are we teaming up w/ them for again?

I know it's silly right people getting cited for having a sign in their front yard. Well it's real stuff that happens so maybe it's not so funny if it happens to you. I was simply citing an example no need to think your above 250 dollar fine. By the way you respond to me you would probably file a civil case over it.

There are new ideas out there so I appreciate you engaging me on your opinion. I will not pretend to have all the answers or be a spokesman. The ACLU has been around since WW1. I am sure they got some mistakes but the principle is what matters. This is a coalition so it is not just the ACLU. The name of this is the Accountabilitynowpac.

The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.

(My opinion is if they are who they say they are which I don't doubt. This could become a noble cause which could lead to taking this all the way to Federal court if we do this right.)

You said who am I to ask for money thats a good question? I am a videographer for the Ron Paul movement. Most notable the creator of the November 5th movement which I proposed the first mass donation video through a simple YouTube video. Do I have your permission to post on these forums? You have the choice to look into something if you wish. Nobody is taking money out of your pocket or telling you what to do.

In politics we pick sides I am going to give these guys a shot. There is to much at risk to just sit and critisize new ideas that have some substance to them. If the PAC fails then so be it but I am not going to drop my support because some guy on RP forums is using cut and paste politics.

Regardless of opinions I appreciate your questioning. That is your duty as an American and I will never fault anyone for sharing their opinion.

 

[constituent]

1) I know it's silly right people getting cited for having a sign in their front yard. Well it's real stuff that happens so maybe it's not so funny if it happens to you.

2) I was simply citing an example no need to think your above 250 dollar fine. By the way you respond to me you would probably file a civil case over it.

1) yea, uhhh, exactly my point.

2) naah, i'd kindly tell them to get the f* off my property. then they would fine me, then i wouldn't pay it, then they'd come arrest me and THEN i would sue their ass.

1) The ACLU has been around since WW1. 2) I am sure they got some mistakes but the principle is what matters. 3) This is a coalition so it is not just the ACLU. The name of this is the Accountabilitynowpac.

1) ahhh yes, the roots of the ACLU, another can of worms in and of itself, too easy... i'll leave it for now.

2) if the principle is "civil" liberties, then it is the wrong principle.

3) You're right, it's a coalition of the most ridiculous left-wing blogs on the internet, the ACLU, Trevor Lyman and Rick Williams.

The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.

(My opinion is if they are who they say they are which I don't doubt. This could become a noble cause which could lead to taking this all the way to Federal court if we do this right.)

for refutation of your basic summary please see my post above.

feel free to respond.

persuade me.

You said who am I to ask for money

no i didn't, now you're just telling lies.

if you're going to get all personal and ridiculous while putting words in my mouth i'm done reading.


::worn out on half-truths and convenient glossing over::


edit: come to think of it, i should have left your gratuitous self-promotion in. it would better display the strawman you were attempting to setup.

 

[ItsTime]

you want the revolution to give money to an organization that will in turn use that money to slander us??? ONLY BTM could have come up with that great idea.

Mods really should move this pos thread.

 

[ItsTime]

when dems and reps come together in d.c., that usually ends up bad for us.

guns and butter.

the aclu, dailykos, et. Al. Are not attempting to advance our cause.

They're looking for bodies/money only.

qfmft

flagged as spam....

 

[torchbearer]

qfmft

flagged as spam....

"We have two problems in Washington, the democracts and the republicans" - Ron Paul, July 11th at Mr. Smith's in Washington D.C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVqg-HkbBD0

NO truer words could have been said... but he also gives us a road map in this speech of how we get out of this hole.

 

[itshappening]

by the looks of it, this is going to be a pretty big money bomb

 

[Jamsie 567]

1) yea, uhhh, exactly my point.

2) naah, i'd kindly tell them to get the f* off my property. then they would fine me, then i wouldn't pay it, then they'd come arrest me and THEN i would sue their ass.



1) ahhh yes, the roots of the ACLU, another can of worms in and of itself, too easy... i'll leave it for now.

2) if the principle is "civil" liberties, then it is the wrong principle.

3) You're right, it's a coalition of the most ridiculous left-wing blogs on the internet, the ACLU, Trevor Lyman and Rick Williams.



for refutation of your basic summary please see my post above.

feel free to respond.

persuade me.



no i didn't, now you're just telling lies.

if you're going to get all personal and ridiculous while putting words in my mouth i'm done reading.


::worn out on half-truths and convenient glossing over::


edit: come to think of it, i should have left your gratuitous self-promotion in. it would better display the strawman you were attempting to setup.

I have debated many people like you and I am going to agree to disagree with you on this topic. I realize you don't get the principle because you don't think this is about civil liberties. It has everything to do about that and I would not pledge my support with out doing the research.

Question this we must and if they fail we have the right to critisize it but there are some issues IMO that are worth joining forces over. The 4th amendement being one of them, no harm no foul. To think we are going to progess more by picking people apart rather than (trying) a common alliance is fallacy.

I would be interested in hearing what your opinion on how to over turn FISA?

Ideally what I would like to see happen is see the CFL become the new ACLU backed by our Constitutional beliefs. To me that is victory and I anxiously await to see the CFL next move because that is where I would like to pledge my support.

You have legitimate concerns but you also have some back handed insults. The whole Trevor Lyman stole my bicycle thing is tired and to be frank it allienates a lot of the core supporters from these forums.

 

[mport1]

Excellent video!