New video released of police beating Kelly Thomas to death (graphic photo in thread)

kylejack

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Another video has just been released of the horrifying beating death by Fullerton CA police of Kelly Thomas.



More at the PINAC blog: http://www.pixiq.com/article/shocking-video-of-kelly-thomas-released-watch-with-caution

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When Should You Shoot A Cop

That question, even without an answer, makes most “law-abiding taxpayers” go into knee-jerk conniptions. The indoctrinated masses all race to see who can be first, and loudest, to proclaim that it is NEVER okay to forcibly resist “law enforcement.” In doing so, they also inadvertently demonstrate why so much of human history has been plagued by tyranny and oppression.

In an ideal world, cops would do nothing except protect people from thieves and attackers, in which case shooting a cop would never be justified. In the real world, however, far more injustice, violence, torture, theft, and outright murder has been committed IN THE NAME of “law enforcement,” than has been committed in spite of it. To get a little perspective, try watching a documentary or two about some of the atrocities committed by the regimes of Stalin, or Lenin, or Chairman Mao, or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or any number of other tyrants in history. Pause the film when the jackboots are about to herd innocent people into cattle cars, or gun them down as they stand on the edge of a ditch, and THEN ask yourself the question, “When should you shoot a cop?” Keep in mind, the evils of those regimes were committed in the name of “law enforcement.” And as much as the statement may make people cringe, the history of the human race would have been a lot LESS gruesome if there had been a lot MORE “cop-killers” around to deal with the state mercenaries of those regimes.

People don’t mind when you point out the tyranny that has happened in other countries, but most have a hard time viewing their OWN “country,” their OWN “government,” and their OWN “law enforcers,” in any sort of objective way. Having been trained to feel a blind loyalty to the ruling class of the particular piece of dirt they live on (a.k.a. “patriotism”), and having been trained to believe that obedience is a virtue, the idea of forcibly resisting “law enforcement” is simply unthinkable to many. Literally, they can’t even THINK about it. And humanity has suffered horribly because of it. It is a testament to the effectiveness of authoritarian indoctrination that literally billions of people throughout history have begged and screamed and cried in the face of authoritarian injustice and oppression, but only a tiny fraction have ever lifted a finger to actually try to STOP it.

Even when people can recognize tyranny and oppression, they still usually talk about “working within the system”–the same system that is responsible for the tyranny and oppression. People want to believe that ”the system” will, sooner or later, provide justice. The last thing they want to consider is that they should “illegally” resist–that if they want to achieve justice, they must become “criminals” and “terrorists,” which is what anyone who resists “legal” injustice is automatically labelled. But history shows all too well that those who fight for freedom and justice almost always do so “illegally”–i.e., without the permission of the ruling class.

If politicians think that they have the right to impose any “law” they want, and cops have the attitude that, as long as it’s called “law,” they will enforce it, what is there to prevent complete tyranny? Not the consciences of the “law-makers” or their hired thugs, obviously. And not any election or petition to the politicians. When tyrants define what counts as “law,” then by definition it is up to the “law-breakers” to combat tyranny.
Pick any example of abuse of power, whether it is the fascist “war on drugs,” the police thuggery that has become so common, the random stops and searches now routinely carried out in the name of “security” (e.g., at airports, “border checkpoints” that aren’t even at the border, “sobriety checkpoints,” and so on), or anything else. Now ask yourself the uncomfortable question: If it’s wrong for cops to do these things, doesn’t that imply that the people have a right to RESIST such actions? Of course, state mercenaries don’t take kindly to being resisted, even non-violently. If you question their right to detain you, interrogate you, search you, invade your home, and so on, you are very likely to be tasered, physically assaulted, kidnapped, put in a cage, or shot. If a cop decides to treat you like livestock, whether he does it “legally” or not, you will usually have only two options: submit, or kill the cop. You can’t resist a cop ”just a little” and get away with it. He will always call in more of his fellow gang members, until you are subdued or dead.

Basic logic dictates that you either have an obligation to LET “law enforcers” have their way with you, or you have the right to STOP them from doing so, which will almost always require killing them. (Politely asking fascists to not be fascists has a very poor track record.) Consider the recent Indiana Supreme Court ruling, which declared that if a cop tries to ILLEGALLY enter your home, it’s against the law for you to do anything to stop him. Aside from the patent absurdity of it, since it amounts to giving thugs with badges PERMISSION to “break the law,” and makes it a CRIME for you to defend yourself against a CRIMINAL (if he has a badge), consider the logical ramifications of that attitude.

There were once some words written on a piece of parchment (with those words now known as the Fourth Amendment), that said that you have the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures at the hands of ”government” agents. In Indiana today, what could that possibly mean? The message from the ruling class is quite clear, and utterly insane. It amounts to this: “We don’t have the right to invade your home without probable cause … but if we DO, you have no right to stop us, and we have the right to arrest you if you try.”

Why not apply that to the rest of the Bill of Rights, while we’re at it? ”You have the right to say what you want, but if we use violence to shut you up, you have to let us.” (I can personally attest to the fact that that is the attitude of the U.S. “Department of Justice.”) “You have the right to have guns, but if we try to forcibly and illegally disarm you, and you resist, we have the right to kill you.” (Ask Randy Weaver and the Branch Davidians about that one.) “You have the right to not testify against yourself, but when we coerce you into confessing (and call it a ’plea agreement’), you can’t do a thing about it.” What good is a ”right”–what does the term “right” even mean–if you have an obligation to allow jackboots to violate your so-called “rights”? It makes the term absolutely meaningless.

To be blunt, if you have the right to do “A,” it means that if someone tries to STOP you from doing “A”–even if he has a badge and a politician’s scribble (“law”) on his side–you have the right to use whatever amount of force is necessary to resist that person. That’s what it means to have an unalienable right. If you have the unalienable right to speak your mind (a la the First Amendment), then you have the right to KILL “government” agents who try to shut you up. If you have the unalienable right to be armed, then you have the right to KILL ”government” agents who try to disarm you. If you have the right to not be subjected to unreasonable searches and seizures, then you have the right to KILL “government” agents who try to inflict those on you.

Those who are proud to be “law-abiding” don’t like to hear this, and don’t like to think about this, but what’s the alternative? If you do NOT have the right to forcibly resist injustice–even if the injustice is called ”law”–that logically implies that you have an obligation to allow ”government” agents to do absolutely anything they want to you, your home, your family, and so on. Really, there are only two choices: you are a slave, the property of the politicians, without any rights at all, or you have the right to violently resist “government” attempts to oppress you. There can be no other option.

Of course, on a practical level, openly resisting the gang called ”government” is usually very hazardous to one’s health. But there is a big difference between obeying for the sake of self-preservation, which is often necessary and rational, and feeling a moral obligation to go along with whatever the ruling class wants to do to you, which is pathetic and insane. Most of the incomprehensible atrocities that have occurred throughout history were due in large part to the fact that most people answer “never” to the question of “When should you shoot a cop?” The correct answer is: When evil is “legal,” become a criminal. When oppression is enacted as “law,” become a “law-breaker.” When those violently victimizing the innocent have badges, become a cop-killer.

The next time you hear of a police officer being killed “in the line of duty,” take a moment to consider the very real possibility that maybe in that case, the “law enforcer” was the bad guy and the “cop killer” was the good guy. As it happens, that has been the case more often than not throughout human history.

http://www.copblock.org/5475/when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/
 
When Should You Shoot A Cop[/url]

Violence is not the path to liberty. It will only strengthen the state.

And for those who don't understand what "resisting arrest" means, it is a catch all that they can (and do) charge anybody with. Unless you immediately dive head first into their cop car, you may be charged (and even then they will make up something else to get you on).
 
Violence is not the path to liberty. It will only strengthen the state.

And for those who don't understand what "resisting arrest" means, it is a catch all that they can (and do) charge anybody with. Unless you immediately dive head first into their cop car, you may be charged (and even then they will make up something else to get you on).

You don't have the moral right to defend yourself against unlawful deadly force?
 
Violence is not the path to liberty. It will only strengthen the state.

And for those who don't understand what "resisting arrest" means, it is a catch all that they can (and do) charge anybody with.

Its a complementary charge to disorderly conduct :D
Disorderly conduct is the true catchall. It gives police officers full discretion.
 
You don't have the moral right to defend yourself against unlawful deadly force?

Yes, you do have the moral right. But doing so against a gang of people calling themselves "the police" is impractical in terms of the end goal of achieving liberty. Additionally, unlike the common criminal, there is the fact that they for the most part do not understand that their jobs are immoral and entail the initiation of violence.
 
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Yes, you do have the moral right. But doing so against a gang of people calling themselves "the police" is impractical in terms of the end goal of achieving liberty. Additionally, unlike the common criminal, there is the fact that they for the most part do not understand that their jobs are immoral and entail the initiation of violence.

So we should canonize the martyrs then?
 
Yes, you do have the moral right. But doing so against a gang of people calling themselves "the police" is impractical in terms of the end goal of achieving liberty.
When you're about to die, you don't think too much about how your actions will affect the end goal of achieving liberty.
Additionally, unlike the common criminal, there is the fact that they for the most part do not understand that their jobs are immoral and entail the initiation of violence.
When your life is on the line, what they do or don't understand is irrelevant. You're fighting for your life.
 
And for those who don't understand what "resisting arrest" means, it is a catch all that they can (and do) charge anybody with. Unless you immediately dive head first into their cop car, you may be charged (and even then they will make up something else to get you on).

I believe that other charge would be "Attempting to elude the police." Suspect ran, but had eyes closed and dove right into the back seat of the squad car.
 
Now they're trying to blame it on the medics:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...ot-cops-to-blame-for-death-defense-says-.html

The lawyer for one of the Fullerton policemen charged in the beating of a mentally ill homeless man suggested Tuesday that it was medical professionals –- not police officers -– who are to blame for the death of Kelly Thomas.

In the second day of a preliminary hearing to determine whether two police officers should be ordered to stand trial for killing Thomas outside a bus depot in July, defense attorney John Barnett questioned a trauma surgeon about the treatment the beating victim received after he was rushed to St. Jude Medical Center in Fullerton.

Dr. Michael Lekawa acknowledged under questioning from Barnett that paramedics had informed him that doctors at St. Jude hospital had struggled to insert a breathing tube in Thomas following the July 5 incident. Lekawa said that if a breathing tube is not inserted quickly it can lead to a low oxygen level in the blood, and eventually death.

PHOTOS: Kelly Thomas death

But Lekawa, the chief trauma surgeon at UCI -- where Thomas was later transfered -- said records did not show such a problem.

"They did everything right," he testified.

A coroner's report found that Kelly had suffered mechanical compression –- pressure on the body leading to a lack of oxygen and eventual brain death.

Officer Manuel Ramos and Cpl. Jay Cicinelli are charged in Kelly’s death -– Ramos with second-degree murder and Cicinelli with involuntary manslaughter. Both have pleaded not guilty.

The surgeon said he was not initially aware of the officers' actions in the field but once he saw what had occurred he understood how Thomas could have sustained enough compression by the weight of the officers that it caused a lack of oxygen to the brain.

The testimony comes a day after a dramatic video of Thomas’ encounter with police was shown in court.

The grainy black-and-white video of Thomas’ violent tangle with police is the centerpiece of the prosecution’s case that the officers escalated a standard police encounter with a homeless man into a fatal beating.
At one point, Thomas –- a 37-year-old mentally ill homeless man who was a familiar face in the city’s downtown -– screams out: “Dad, they are killing me.”

The video and the sound of fists and a baton connecting with Thomas was graphic enough that several spectators in the courtroom left and the judge paused the video at one point as some in the audience began to groan.

He cautioned that those who couldn’t stomach the video should leave.

The case has rocked the north Orange County city, where scores of people have protested, staged memorials and even held a recent public birthday for Kelly Thomas.

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Doc-says-chest-compression-led-to-homeless-death-3542916.php

SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) — A medical center trauma surgeon says continuous compression of a California homeless man's chest during a confrontation with police officers caused breathing problems that led to his death.
Dr. Michael Lekawa testified Tuesday in response to intense questioning by attorneys for two Fullerton officers charged with killing Kelly Thomas last July.
One attorney asked whether performing CPR for a long time might cause the problems that led to Thomas' death.
Prosecutors contend that Officer Manuel Ramos and Cpl. Jay Cicinelli punched and pinned down Thomas, and that the 37-year-old died from mechanical compression of the thorax, which made it impossible for him to breathe normally.
The testimony came in a preliminary hearing to determine whether the officers must stand trial.
 
Wow. Every officer on scene should be charged with capital murder and subsequently put down. The fuck is wrong with people.
 
Police beat up a homeless to death. WARNING: this video contains graphic images

..
 
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Horrible. The situation slowly goes South from a routine beginning to a tragic end... It’s three videos long: From long, calm standing conversation to his last pleas and muffled gasps.

WTF

They would had never released this video (and it could only be worse) if this was also white on black racial riot fodder (ala Rodney King beating). This incident was still much more savage considering the minor verbal “cause” beginning and the fatal sadistic beating conclusion, even without adding any racial overtones. This should still be enough to get everyone to line up outside the local police and local government offices demanding resignations and lasting changes to prevent this from ever happening again!

The number of times Kelly was ordered to move his legs and hands back and forth would have been funny in the first two videos if this had not ended so badly. They discussed prior encounter(s) with the same cop that threatened a fist beating after he put on the rubber gloves. Kelly did give his name once, early in to the encounter, AFTER they discussed speaking in English, etc. The only thing the poor guy did wrong was give some contempt of cop attitude (just a little) and VERBALLY act a bit crazy by not giving his full name or clearly re-stating his name (an claiming to not speak the cops english language) while still standing there calmly talking to both cops. It's hard to call this an aggravated homicide when there was no apparent grounds for an arrest or that cold-blooded murder by beating and tasering the poor guy to death. He gave no threat to police at any time!

Was it the 2nd cop (who appeared to be even calmer at the start of the interview) that ran out of Taser Lightning Juice and then started pounding the guys head, face-down, into the ground while his partner had his knees in his back – or was it the other way around? It was more traditional and less damming for the other cops (arriving later) who joined in after verbal invitation. Did any of them try to de-escalate the use of force? Was it the voice of a cop (before paramedics arrived) that questioned if he was still breathing? Who observed and commented on his cyanosis (probably noticed Kelly’s lips turning blue)? Were the cops still kneeling on his back at that time?

I don't see how the eventual death can be blamed on the medics or hospital.

From what I've seen here, and especially if there’s additional cover-ups and lies by the cops statements and records from that night, I'd say this was murder and the maximum prison time is probably applicable for the homicidal bullies here - maybe parole after 25 years in hard-core cages, never hold a position with gov or authority again.

Sickening. What’s the back story on the involved cops to have them behave that way instead of act like peace officers should?

This country is going down the crazy crapper tube ...and even Ron Paul can’t bring back the dead.
 
After I read the transcript I didn't even bother watching the video, just READING what happened twisted my stomach.
 
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