New Constitutional Convention

[LibertyInJeopardy]

There is strength in numbers but the critical point the Founders understood is that those numbers must elect representatives to speak on their behalf and focus all of their interests into one room to be heard and negotiated - thus the Continental Congress and Constitutional Convention.

Here is the seed of an idea:

Hold state wide elections for Representatives to a new Constitutional Convention where the question of the Violations of the Constitution by the Current Government will be considered, so that that elected body may then consider and resolve upon an appropriate course of action. The results of their Convention may then be relayed to the greater numbers who elected them.

How to pay for the elections? The same way do everything. Money bombs and volunteers.

Instead of having people march on washington, have them march to their state capitals to vote for their state's representative to the new Constitutional Convention.

Who will be candidates? Anyone.

When to hold the election? Nov 5?

 

[BagOfEyebrows]

There is strength in numbers but the critical point the Founders understood is that those numbers must elect representatives to speak on their behalf and focus all of their interests into one room to be heard and negotiated - thus the Continental Congress and Constitutional Convention.

Here is the seed of an idea:

Hold state wide elections for Representatives to a new Constitutional Convention where the question of the Violations of the Constitution by the Current Government will be considered, so that that elected body may then consider and resolve upon an appropriate course of action. The results of their Convention may then be relayed to the greater numbers who elected them.

How to pay for the elections? The same way do everything. Money bombs and volunteers.

Instead of having people march on washington, have them march to their state capitals to vote for their state's representative to the new Constitutional Convention.

Who will be candidates? Anyone.

When to hold the election? Nov 5?

No.


I thought this was the way to go, too, last year... but after careful study of state constitutions and the federal one, as well as the wisdom of 3 people (2 through verbal discussions, one through the reading of his work) and the way the population has been manipulated and taught the 'role of government' as well as the upside-down structure of power in government, and what the rule of law is, and where it comes from/what foundation it is based upon ... I don't think a constitutional convention is the best way to go at this time.

There needs to be a better understanding and better unity before a convention... or we won't have anything positive come out of it.

There probably is going to be a call for a convention at some point soon anyway... but not from the freedom/liberty side. The hints of it are all over the place, in the media, in speeches/writings of political 'leadership.' Be wary... they aren't going to fix the constitution, they are going to attempt the final slaying of it, as they see it as something that needs to be 'killed.'

What they do not understand yet, but one day soon will, is that the principles of liberty and freedom and the principles this nation were founded upon can not (and will not) be destroyed or killed... it's not possible to do, but it won't stop them from trying, just as they have tried to do other unsustainable things that were void of logic, void of compassion, and void of any foundation of basic principles. I'm not talking about religious principles here - I'm talkiing about common sense, which people, as a majority, don't much understand anymore. It's gone from everything... politics, churches, businesses... what a freakin' mess we're in as a whole, but thankfully there's enough individuals who know what has gone wrong and know what we need to do to fix it, to make a difference.

The education has just begun... it never should have stopped, but it did. John Adams put it right into the Massachusetts constitution:

Article XVIII. A frequent recurrence to the fundamental principles of the constitution, and a constant adherence to those of piety, justice, moderation, temperance, industry, and frugality, are absolutely necessary to preserve the advantages of liberty, and to maintain a free government. The people ought, consequently, to have a particular attention to all those principles, in the choice of their officers and representatives: and they have a right to require of their lawgivers and magistrates, an exact and constant observance of them, in the formation and execution of the laws necessary for the good administration of the commonwealth.

That article is so beautiful it makes me wish I was alive back then to take off John Adam's shoes to kiss and massage his feet for eight hours. No offense intended, but John Adams was a genius and he makes me feel a bit passionate all over my flesh, crikey. I should go visit his grave someday, to just sit and cry. DAMN IT, HE TRIED SO HARD TO HELP US TO PROTECT OUR LIBERTY! In freakin' layman's terms back then, and even now ... and everything - he gave all of us everything in our new Republic. Great instruction manual, easy to follow... We didn't abide, we didn't abide.


There's a lot of educating to do before a convention could be planned, and I don't think there's enough time now to do it - folks have been trying to educate us for decades on the issues, and even their ideologies aren't very complete with understanding, yet the majority of us only recently found out people like Ron Paul were out there working on educating for decades to no avail... there's only a few options left now, but giving up on the principles isn't one of them. and trying to get a horribly educated (re: uneducated on the state constitutions/role of government/etc) population of good-intentioned but inredibly misguided people to gather to work on the constitution would, right now, lead to an even worse situation than the one currently upon us.

Sorry for the scattered and irate ramble... kinda a result of learning yesterday as I read the constitution of the state of Oklahoma that their first article relinquishes all power to the federal government, citing it as the state's supreme law... man, that about blew me off my chair, I actually had to get up to walk around before I self combusted.

All we can do over the next few years is to continue to educate each other, ourselves and our elected officials (some of whom do seem to be waking up, but not completely yet.) The empire is collapsing upon itself... and I don't think it was as planned as some thing it was to collapse at this particular time... I think it collapsed before they actually had all the 'details' worked out, as well as 'complete' confidence and willingness of the 'masses' - the masses are actually now hesitant and doubtful... and questioning things... and that is in liberty's favor... so just continue to talk with people about what you've learned so far about the role of government, etc.

 

[nate895]

The only conventions that should be held right now are secession and/or nullification conventions.

 

[LibertyInJeopardy]

No.


I thought this was the way to go, too, last year... but after careful study of state constitutions and the federal one, as well as the wisdom of 3 people (2 through verbal discussions, one through the reading of his work) and the way the population has been manipulated and taught the 'role of government' as well as the upside-down structure of power in government, and what the rule of law is, and where it comes from/what foundation it is based upon ... I don't think a constitutional convention is the best way to go at this time.

There needs to be a better understanding and better unity before a convention... or we won't have anything positive come out of it.

There probably is going to be a call for a convention at some point soon anyway... but not from the freedom/liberty side. The hints of it are all over the place, in the media, in speeches/writings of political 'leadership.' Be wary... they aren't going to fix the constitution, they are going to attempt the final slaying of it, as they see it as something that needs to be 'killed.'

What they do not understand yet, but one day soon will, is that the principles of liberty and freedom and the principles this nation were founded upon can not (and will not) be destroyed or killed... it's not possible to do, but it won't stop them from trying, just as they have tried to do other unsustainable things that were void of logic, void of compassion, and void of any foundation of basic principles. I'm not talking about religious principles here - I'm talkiing about common sense, which people, as a majority, don't much understand anymore. It's gone from everything... politics, churches, businesses... what a freakin' mess we're in as a whole, but thankfully there's enough individuals who know what has gone wrong and know what we need to do to fix it, to make a difference.

The education has just begun... it never should have stopped, but it did. John Adams put it right into the Massachusetts constitution:

Article XVIII. A frequent recurrence to the fundamental principles of the constitution, and a constant adherence to those of piety, justice, moderation, temperance, industry, and frugality, are absolutely necessary to preserve the advantages of liberty, and to maintain a free government. The people ought, consequently, to have a particular attention to all those principles, in the choice of their officers and representatives: and they have a right to require of their lawgivers and magistrates, an exact and constant observance of them, in the formation and execution of the laws necessary for the good administration of the commonwealth.

That article is so beautiful it makes me wish I was alive back then to take off John Adam's shoes to kiss and massage his feet for eight hours. No offense intended, but John Adams was a genius and he makes me feel a bit passionate all over my flesh, crikey. I should go visit his grave someday, to just sit and cry. DAMN IT, HE TRIED SO HARD TO HELP US TO PROTECT OUR LIBERTY! In freakin' layman's terms back then, and even now ... and everything - he gave all of us everything in our new Republic. Great instruction manual, easy to follow... We didn't abide, we didn't abide.


There's a lot of educating to do before a convention could be planned, and I don't think there's enough time now to do it - folks have been trying to educate us for decades on the issues, and even their ideologies aren't very complete with understanding, yet the majority of us only recently found out people like Ron Paul were out there working on educating for decades to no avail... there's only a few options left now, but giving up on the principles isn't one of them. and trying to get a horribly educated (re: uneducated on the state constitutions/role of government/etc) population of good-intentioned but inredibly misguided people to gather to work on the constitution would, right now, lead to an even worse situation than the one currently upon us.

Sorry for the scattered and irate ramble... kinda a result of learning yesterday as I read the constitution of the state of Oklahoma that their first article relinquishes all power to the federal government, citing it as the state's supreme law... man, that about blew me off my chair, I actually had to get up to walk around before I self combusted.

All we can do over the next few years is to continue to educate each other, ourselves and our elected officials (some of whom do seem to be waking up, but not completely yet.) The empire is collapsing upon itself... and I don't think it was as planned as some thing it was to collapse at this particular time... I think it collapsed before they actually had all the 'details' worked out, as well as 'complete' confidence and willingness of the 'masses' - the masses are actually now hesitant and doubtful... and questioning things... and that is in liberty's favor... so just continue to talk with people about what you've learned so far about the role of government, etc.

John Adams gave us our unification under the Federal Government.
It was Thomas Jefferson who I believe spoke best about the principle ideas we support. Together they formed an excellent balance.

That being an aside, the point is not to create a new constitution or alter the current one.

The point of the election I propose is to establish LEADERSHIP to unify us and our actions. Not only unify us, but also unify the excluded parties, and attract anyone out there who would rise in defense of the constitution against any foe.

Right now the movement is adrift a sea of sparkling ideas. They are all beautiful. But we have a long way to go until we feel the fire of one massive sun. We need to meet eachother - locally, face to face - and then, after a time of discussion, select the best and the brightest among us from every state to represent our roaring mass of voices in one room (paid for by us), where the representatives will consider and discuss all of our essential interests, and then return word to us of a recommended course of action we can all take in defense of the constitution.

We NEED to organize and we should do it by the best way devised: election of representatives based on merit and ability.

 

[RockEnds]

I agree that any attempt to alter the Constitution right now would have bad consequences.

It is my personal belief that it's time to reclaim it through a separate election before it is officially suspended and destroyed.

 

[LibertyInJeopardy]

If I could rename this thread I would.

Please note: The Unofficial Thread Title would be something like "Private Election of Representative Leadership for the Revolution"

 

[LibertyInJeopardy]

Bump

 

[KPatrick]

Usually the term "Constitutional Convention" mean to re-draft it. A 'Convention in Defense of the Constitution' might not confuse as much. My worry would be as above, that we'd get the wrong people there, and because many of the people have been brought up to expect and love the Nanny State, that we might be in a tough spot.

Can you explain a bit more about the idea?

But even though: I'd run in WV.

 

[BagOfEyebrows]

John Adams gave us our unification under the Federal Government.
It was Thomas Jefferson who I believe spoke best about the principle ideas we support. Together they formed an excellent balance.

That being an aside, the point is not to create a new constitution or alter the current one.

The point of the election I propose is to establish LEADERSHIP to unify us and our actions. Not only unify us, but also unify the excluded parties, and attract anyone out there who would rise in defense of the constitution against any foe.

Right now the movement is adrift a sea of sparkling ideas. They are all beautiful. But we have a long way to go until we feel the fire of one massive sun. We need to meet eachother - locally, face to face - and then, after a time of discussion, select the best and the brightest among us from every state to represent our roaring mass of voices in one room (paid for by us), where the representatives will consider and discuss all of our essential interests, and then return word to us of a recommended course of action we can all take in defense of the constitution.

We NEED to organize and we should do it by the best way devised: election of representatives based on merit and ability.

Apologies for misunderstanding your intent - I thought you wanted a literal 'constitutional convention' kinda thing, where the document could and would be chewed up and spit out as an unconstitutional 'democracy.'

I now understand what you're going for - I think some private groups have already formed to that end, in at least a few states. Mainly, though, our greatest strength is in our individual abilities and actions, reaching out as constituents, as 'a voter' - and getting to know local elected officials on town/city levels as well as state. The group idea is fantastic, though, and probably is a good idea to see to completion.

John Adams, much as I admire him, deserves a good, swift kick to the groin for the Federal Constitution. After writing the Massachusetts Constitution, the most brilliant of his works for liberty, Mr. Adams watched as the principles and his foundation for government got mangled up in every state constitution written after his constitution (most using only parts of his words and ideas, but in some cases, really missing the intent.)

I think he tried to be diplomatic about it, sorta honoring 'free will' and all ... he probably drank a lot more after reading a few state constitutions with no preamble, is my guess. So by the time the federal constitution was being written, Mr. Adams was probably looking around at all the state constitutions written so far and went 'ah, screw it... they don't get it.' I imagine alcoholic beverages helped ease his frustration.

And John had a little 'conflict of interest' going with regards to politics/law and the 'uniting' of the states through a federal government - he was an attorney.

An Attorney... Right there... that's the clincher, that's what fuzzied up a brilliant mind. Wanting people to self govern... but at the same time, seeing 'law' as something seperate from government... when he'd just written a constitution for Massachusetts that clearly outlined what the 'law' actually was, and how simple it was to abide by.

There's law and then there's 'some crappy set of do not do stuff put into a bunch of language the common man can not understand or represent himself with in a court of law.' It makes life more confusing, complex and corrupt than it need be, and strips from mankind so much time, energy and resources, it's probably why we're still fighting 'wars' over political and religious ideology in the year 2008. I mean... come on! Two thousand years since some guy named Jesus Christ got murdered by a government for trying to peacefully defend and share the basic principles and a pretty small set of personal laws to follow, and we're still dukin' it out, killing each other, trying to get things back to peace, common sense and good will towars mankind?

John Adams knew all that back then! And yet... I dunno. He maybe just felt like nobody really understood what he was trying to do, to give to us, as a nation.

Lack of society's understanding of his wonderful 'sovereign states' of, by and for the people, by a simple set of principles and rights, easy to live in unity by... and add to that his attorney stuff, and you got a personal storm of major conflicts that resulted in the 'shaky foundation' of the federal constitution. As shaky a foundation as it is, though, if actually followed with regard to the state constitutions, and state sovereignty, it could have worked out much better.

But - we were led to believe the federal constituton was 'the constitution' - and it's not. It's not the most powerful, it's not the document that holds each state's sovereignty and inhabitants duties within it ... if I had been alive back then, and had I been a man, I'd have stormed into that constitutional convention and demand John Adams better explain his actual foundation for this nation, and not let it get risked by the writing of the Federal Constitution.

There's a ramble. :/

Good luck with your idea - it's a great one. More organization would be good - more personal educating of oneself on state constitutions would be a plus as well, and then sharing that knowledge with elected (or campaigning) government officials would really get things going in the right direction. It's where all our power and information/directions are.

It's where the 'how to fix this' is. First read the Massachusett's preamble and first few articles, and note the date it was ratified - then note the date your own state constitution was ratified.

Then note the date the Federal Constitution was ratified.

 

[lynnf]

so right...

I agree that any attempt to alter the Constitution right now would have bad consequences.

It is my personal belief that it's time to reclaim it through a separate election before it is officially suspended and destroyed.

an attempt to alter the Constitution by convention is a bad idea at any time -- they can change it any way they want -- and that would mean they would abolish any useful parts and change others to the bad things. only modify what needs to be modified through the amendment process -- anything else would lose the Constitution as we know it.

lynn

 

[KPatrick]

Yeah of course. We're not talking about that. We're talking about a Convention to Defend the Constitution.

There's a parallel thread on slaveuprising.

http://slaveuprising.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111

We should move it to one or the other. Thoughts? This isn't my baby, but in that thread I offered some ideas to this thing. What do we think>

 

[jcarcinogen]

What I want is to go back to the Constitution being the law at the Federal level and a reevaluation of the role of government, not a reevaluation of the Constitution.