New business opportunity for me, looking for input - gold grams BUT...MLM :(

[GunnyFreedom]

I have been approached to get in near the start of a company who is marketing encapsulated gold grams in what looks like a credit card, at around $8 over spot. The idea being a gram of gold worth around $55 (sold for $62-$63 at the moment) is much easier to transact in barter or 'gold-is-money' type of transaction than loose bullion, and I agree with that, and have been looking into that sort of thing for years.

Now, the problem for me is that it's a MLM business, and I have always been deeply suspicious of MLM things.

The gold is physical delivery, NOT ETF. After so much in commission, participants get a debit card denominated in physical gold, to load up and spend anywhere in the world using physical gold to back electronic debits into whatever currency you are purchasing in. WHich thing I REALLY like.

I really like everything about the opportunity except for the singular fact that it's MLM, and the whole business model is propagated on the spreading of the business model to other people.

If I weren't already struggling like hell, I'd turn it down flat just because it's MLM. Nevermind that this is at the beginning and I could make a mint off of it, eventually somewhere down the road, my profits will be at the expense of someone else. Because it's MLM, and that seems to be to me the very nature of MLM. I, in particular, am familiar with a ton of sound money people, so were I to do this, I could indeed generate a serious current and residual profit and actually survive to do liberty activism 24/7. BUT, the people at the end of the MLM chain who inevitably get taken, will they not be the people in our own movement who get hurt?

So anyway, if you have a business opportunity that is excellent and profitable in every possible way...except that the business model happens to rely on MLM for propagation, how do you react? What is your take? Because if some of you know a lot more about MLM than I do, and it's not as evil as I seem to think it is, then this could solve pretty much all of my money problems and leave me to fighting for liberty instead of trying to put food on the table and make the mortgage note...

 

[Acala]

I have been approached to get in near the start of a company who is marketing encapsulated gold grams in what looks like a credit card, at around $8 over spot. The idea being a gram of gold worth around $55 (sold for $62-$63 at the moment) is much easier to transact in barter or 'gold-is-money' type of transaction than loose bullion, and I agree with that, and have been looking into that sort of thing for years.

Now, the problem for me is that it's a MLM business, and I have always been deeply suspicious of MLM things.

The gold is physical delivery, NOT ETF. After so much in commission, participants get a debit card denominated in physical gold, to load up and spend anywhere in the world using physical gold to back electronic debits into whatever currency you are purchasing in. WHich thing I REALLY like.

I really like everything about the opportunity except for the singular fact that it's MLM, and the whole business model is propagated on the spreading of the business model to other people.

If I weren't already struggling like hell, I'd turn it down flat just because it's MLM. Nevermind that this is at the beginning and I could make a mint off of it, eventually somewhere down the road, my profits will be at the expense of someone else. Because it's MLM, and that seems to be to me the very nature of MLM. I, in particular, am familiar with a ton of sound money people, so were I to do this, I could indeed generate a serious current and residual profit and actually survive to do liberty activism 24/7. BUT, the people at the end of the MLM chain who inevitably get taken, will they not be the people in our own movement who get hurt?

So anyway, if you have a business opportunity that is excellent and profitable in every possible way...except that the business model happens to rely on MLM for propagation, how do you react? What is your take? Because if some of you know a lot more about MLM than I do, and it's not as evil as I seem to think it is, then this could solve pretty much all of my money problems and leave me to fighting for liberty instead of trying to put food on the table and make the mortgage note...

Nobody gets "taken" if there is no force and no fraud. If the day comes when it stops being a good deal for someone, well, people make bad deals all the time. If you are smart enough to get in on the ground floor and it works for you, it will only be because somebody somewhere along the line is getting value from what you are doing.

And if something starts to smell fishy, you will smell it and do the right thing. People will be better off having the likes of you up the chain above them.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Thanks, it's the first time in my life I've been genuinely interested in a MLM type business, and that's only because I really like the product. I'm a bit hesitant over the $8 overspot for gold grams, because it doesn't take but about 50 cents to make the plastic card, and maybe maybe another dollar to encapsulate the gold, leaving the balance of the overspot for profits up and down the MLM chain. However, $8 overspot is less than the big bullion makers are charging for a similar products (CreditSuisse makes one for I recall $12 over)

 

[specialkornflake]

I recall seeing something like embedding gold into credit card like size items a long time ago. It could have been years ago I read about it. It might have been an alternative currency idea and just used paper. Don't know where I saw it.

EDIT: From below, the product I recall is shiresilver, which as been around awhile.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Gunny, I wonder which company you're referring to. I haven't been keeping up on developments lately. But what I really wonder about is your description. You keep saying "encapsulated", as if there is actual physical gold physically embedded in the card. Like this:

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News...ternative-currency-history.htm?EdNo=001&From=

or this:

http://shiresilver.com/

But then you talk about "debiting" into currencies of your choice. I don't get it. If the metal is physically in the card, then you cannot use it as you would a credit or debit card -- swiping a magnetic strip, or entering in your card number. Because you would still maintain possession of the metal which you're supposed to be spending to the other party. The only way to spend is to physically give the card to the spendee.

Anyway, I'm just interested as to what this is.

As for MLM, aka network marketing, there's actually nothing wrong with it whatsoever. Amazon.com is network marketing. Amazon pays people who refer buyers to their site a percentage of the sale. What's wrong with that? What the problem is with so many MLM things is that they have no product. The network is the product, which is to say the whole thing is just a ridiculous pyramid of vapor. If there are actual real products being sold, as there are with Amazon, Avon, Mary Kay, Tupperware, and many others, then there's no scam. It's all on the up-and-up. Some dislike the hard-selling techniques of some of these companies, like Avon, but that is actually a separate issue. Kirby Vacuum hard-sells in a similar way and is not MLM, while Amazon does not hard-sell and is MLM (well, maybe not multi-level, but single-level affiliate marketing).

Liberty Dollar, of course, was a network-marketed hard currency, and e-gold had a network-marketing (referral) element, so there are precedents in the sound money world.

In short, if the company seems to have a good product you can believe in, and if you will be able to sell it without resorting to any tactics you'd find either unethical or just distasteful, then I'd say this should be an option that's open for you.

 

[brandon]

Doesn't seem like there would be enough profit margin to support a MLM. Is there another side to this business... like selling training, seminars, books, and seller kits?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

OK, I think I have found who you're talking about, and it is indeed physically embedding tiny bars of gold in the card, like the currencies I linked to. The gold-backed debit card is a completely separate thing, a perk for affiliates once they reach a certain level.

Their program seems pretty complex. I would probably recommend just doing the simple, free program and seeing if you can actually make sales and generate income. If you are doing well at that, you can always switch over to the complex, higher-percentage program. Further, I personally feel suspicious as to how developed and how much of an actual legitimate business these guys are. In fact, it may be just "guy", not "guys". So I would definitely do more research and checking around before sinking large amounts of time or money into this.

 

[Endthefednow]

Hi, are you all talking about Karatbars International? I have been in it as a free member since last year but have not purchased any of the products. Also I think Regal Gold is better place to purchase gold.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

As a rule of thumb, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Like Helmuth said, do plenty of research.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

As a rule of thumb, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Like Helmuth said, do plenty of research.

Never trust a Helmuth

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Hi, are you all talking about Karatbars International? I have been in it as a free member since last year but have not purchased any of the products. Also I think Regal Gold is better place to purchase gold.

Yes, it's Karatbars International. IIRC they really only have one actual product, gold grams embedded in a plastic card. They have cards with different designs, of course. You probably know more about them than I do however.

 

[oyarde]

Well @ $8 over spot that is cheaper than the Canadian mint small gold coins or what I have seen from Suisse.

 

[oyarde]

I can buy from my local guy though , for spot , he pays bid, sells @ ask.

 

[cubical]

It sounds interesting, but $8 over spot is about $240 over spot/oz, which is very expensive. I think something like Peter Schiff's gold debit card will easily wipe this card out sooner or later.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

It sounds interesting, but $8 over spot is about $240 over spot/oz, which is very expensive. I think something like Peter Schiff's gold debit card will easily wipe this card out sooner or later.

They are very small units. Tiny bars of half a gram, one gram, etc. It costs money to mint, and then to encapsulate them in the card. $8 seems pretty reasonable.

A gold-backed debit card is a completely different product. Those have been around for a long while, and there are lots of them. Peter Schiff is not the only one to have one. They are an exciting offering with a lot of possibilities, I agree.

 

[cbc58]

whether it is legit or not, you will be looked at as one of those people who promotes products through MLM. that can have very negative connotations especially if you plan to run for office again at some point. it sounds on the side and would have to be so that sufficient money is generated to pay the upline. pass.

 

[cubical]

They are very small units. Tiny bars of half a gram, one gram, etc. It costs money to mint, and then to encapsulate them in the card. $8 seems pretty reasonable.

A gold-backed debit card is a completely different product. Those have been around for a long while, and there are lots of them. Peter Schiff is not the only one to have one. They are an exciting offering with a lot of possibilities, I agree.

I am not saying the $8 is all profit for someone. The reasons you mentioned are why I would much rather stick with 1oz or close to 1oz denominations. Much easier to make so its much cheaper to buy.

What other legit sources offer a gold backed debit card? I am very interested in using one.

 

[oyarde]

I would rather have the smaller denominations, in case I ever find a need to use them.I am an old guy, I need nothing that would ever be worth an ounce .

 

[puppetmaster]

I know a guy that does this type of thing selling gold in .5 grams up to ....cant remember the max size, but he used a vending machine to do this. I have his info somewhere and can find it again. I know he is from Korea and had a demo machine at a trade show in Las Vegas two years ago at the Jewelry show. He even gave me a free .5gr card with the gold sealed and a serial number on it....nice guy. The machine stays connected with pricing and automatically adjust prices to reflect current prices. Nice looking machine and was built like a ATM

 

[Tpoints]

I have been approached to get in near the start of a company who is marketing encapsulated gold grams in what looks like a credit card, at around $8 over spot. The idea being a gram of gold worth around $55 (sold for $62-$63 at the moment) is much easier to transact in barter or 'gold-is-money' type of transaction than loose bullion, and I agree with that, and have been looking into that sort of thing for years.

Now, the problem for me is that it's a MLM business, and I have always been deeply suspicious of MLM things.

MLM usually is a bad idea, but more numbers and details would be helpful.

So you're saying the gold gram is worth about $55 and sold for $65? That's not on its own bad. When you buy silver, you typically pay 10% above spot when all is said and done (shipping and taxes).

MLM only becomes a problem when the items are overpriced and the program stresses recruitment rather than product (and if they don't, I wonder how they make money).