Nevada results rolling in now!

[kylejack]

Perot was polling in first for a short while.

 

[kylejack]

Ron Paul as a third party is a no-win scenario for us, and only justified if the US completely starts falling apart between now and the general elections.

In the "worst" case scenario, we get maybe 1% of the vote, are marginalized to hell and back, and our movement/ideology's credibility (and lets be honest, Ron Paul's ideas are much bigger and more important than Ron Paul himself, and we need the next generation to take things farther if we really want to get anywhere) will be tarnished heavily.

In the "best" case scenario, we get maybe 20-30% (if Romney and Obama are heavily tarnished, if we get high profile support, if Peter Thiel decides to spend a chunk of his fortune playing David Koch/Adelson bankrolling us, if the media is replaced by angels), primarily (if not exclusively) from Romney, win a handful of irrelevant states maybe, and end up like Ross Perot: utterly detested by the Republicans for "stealing the election" and serving as an example for why never to vote third party. If anything, this result would be worse, as it would destroy all the influence we've built up over the years in a giant act of political suicide. There is no chance in hell of a third party candidate winning a US presidential election until things pass the point of no return.

The Republican party establishment already largely hates us, and I see nothing worthwhile to spend what little political capital we have with them on. We can draw voters from both sides, and exposing that many people to the ideas of liberty plants a lot of seeds.

 

[Dave39168]

You're dreaming. Its a dying party, and needs to.

I'm dreaming??? have you not seen the change in people's minds in the past four years? have you not seen the Federal Reserve go from something people never questioned to something that is discussed on National Television? Have you not seen the GOP candidates atleast paying lip service to Ron Paul's ideas this time? Have you not seen them go from attacking his like Guilliani did in 2008 to Newt agreeing with him during the debates this time. They aren't able to treat his as bad as before because more people are waking up. IT IS A SLOOOOOW PROCESS. Have you not seen the numbers on the forums growing by leaps and bounds? Have you not seen more bumper stickers? more news stories? more celebrity endorsements? more raw numbers in the primaries and caucuses? more organization from the grassroots?

We're not going to change the country overnight. And we're not going to do it in four or eight years either.

Do you think if we run third party someone is going to hand him the presidency????

 

[Giuliani was there on 911]

Ron Paul as a third party is a no-win scenario for us, and only justified if the US completely starts falling apart between now and the general elections.

In the "worst" case scenario, we get maybe 1% of the vote, are marginalized to hell and back, and our movement/ideology's credibility (and lets be honest, Ron Paul's ideas are much bigger and more important than Ron Paul himself, and we need the next generation to take things farther if we really want to get anywhere) will be tarnished heavily.

In the "best" case scenario, we get maybe 20-30% (if Romney and Obama are heavily tarnished, if we get high profile support, if Peter Thiel decides to spend a chunk of his fortune playing David Koch/Adelson bankrolling us, if the media is replaced by angels), primarily (if not exclusively) from Romney, win a handful of irrelevant states maybe, and end up like Ross Perot: utterly detested by the Republicans for "stealing the election" and serving as an example for why never to vote third party. If anything, this result would be worse, as it would destroy all the influence we've built up over the years in a giant act of political suicide. There is no chance in hell of a third party candidate winning a US presidential election until things pass the point of no return.

The idea that Ron Paul's would give the election to Obama was spun up by the media. We need to reject it. He just as well could steal the election from Obama and give it to Romney.

And even if Ron Paul becomes hated within the republican party it's not like his ideas will be looked at any differently. They stand on their own merit. Nobody has to call themself a Ron Paul republican.

 

[Dave39168]

The Republican party establishment already largely hates us, and I see nothing worthwhile to spend what little political capital we have with them on. We can draw voters from both sides, and exposing that many people to the ideas of liberty plants a lot of seeds.

Its costs very little political capital to become involved in your local GOP. That's is one of the many things that liberty lovers should be doing.

 

[JJ2]

Perot was polling in first for a short while.

Perot was a billionaire.

 

[Jtorsella]

karoun Karoun Demirjian
Paul's people think they can take 2nd place with the recount. Right now, it's apparently too close for anyone to tell.
7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

 

[ssjevot]

Ron Paul as a third party is a no-win scenario for us, and only justified if the US completely starts falling apart between now and the general elections.

In the "worst" case scenario, we get maybe 1% of the vote, are marginalized to hell and back, and our movement/ideology's credibility (and lets be honest, Ron Paul's ideas are much bigger and more important than Ron Paul himself, and we need the next generation to take things farther if we really want to get anywhere) will be tarnished heavily.

In the "best" case scenario, we get maybe 20-30% (if Romney and Obama are heavily tarnished, if we get high profile support, if Peter Thiel decides to spend a chunk of his fortune playing David Koch/Adelson bankrolling us, if the media is replaced by angels), primarily (if not exclusively) from Romney, win a handful of irrelevant states maybe, and end up like Ross Perot: utterly detested by the Republicans for "stealing the election" and serving as an example for why never to vote third party. If anything, this result would be worse, as it would destroy all the influence we've built up over the years in a giant act of political suicide. There is no chance in hell of a third party candidate winning a US presidential election until things pass the point of no return.

Or it would make the GOP go "how can we get these voters to vote for our nominee"? If people vote for Romney they have zero incentive to change their ways.

 

[Pisces]

Those are good questions, and I don't exactly have answers to those, but seriously....we barely make a dimple in the party in terms of RP republicans serving. The favorability numbers of Paul say it all. There is no reason he should have those numbers. Even if you disagree with his overlying philosophy, he's the most principled and honorable man in the race, yet he ALWAYS has the worst favorabilities. We are playing the status quo by perpetuating the two party system, frankly. No party machine can control when you run as independent. Why should I stay a member of the GOP if this is what they give us in return.

The backlash Amash and others received for supporting Ron Paul was incredibly bad from their GOP constituents.

I don't agree that we don't make a dimple in the party right now. Think about all the backlash against the NDAA. This wouldn't have happened 5 years ago. There would have been people on the left opposed, but what's making a difference right now is that the opposition is bipartisan. The "national security" types can't just say like they've always been able to in the past that the only people opposed to this are "America hating leftists". I'm also seeing more conservatives question the Patriot Act and even much of our foreign intervention. Look at the votes that the House of Representatives was forced to take against the President's actions in Libya. Nothing like this happened even when Clinton was bombing Serbia and we had a Republican Congress. A few lawmakers grumbled about it, but that was it. I've been following politics since the early '90s and I've never had as much hope as I've had in the last few years because of the Ron Paul Republicans. It used to be that there was practically no opposition at all to the policies of the leadership of both parties. I know we're still not numerous enough to completely stop all the bad stuff from happening but in my lifetime we've never been this close.

I know that Perot had high poll numbers and made a big impact in the years that he ran. Where, though, is the Reform Party today? Were there any long-term positive changes that resulted from his independant runs? I would just hate to throw away or at least completely halt all the progress that has been made since 2008.

As far as Ron Paul's personal popularity, you have to remember that people tend to shoot the messenger. Its not fair, but Ron is the guy that's telling people they're wrong and proving it every day. Even as people begin to agree with the message, they still may have a hard time forgiving him for being the one that brought it to them. Plus, he's the one running for President, so he's born the brunt of all the neocon hatred right now. Although its not much consolation right now, I'm confident that eventually most Americans will realize he was right and his enemies were wrong.

 

[Student Of Paulism]

I truly do believe Reagan had the best intentions and had a good heart for the most part, and didnt have the 'nwo' mentality of Bush, and everyone one of them thereafter (the neocon movement pretty much took over everything after Reagan, there were still good people around him when he was potus). I think during his time as president, he was forced into a lot of things (IRAN-CONTRA being the biggest) and i don't believe he ever had that tyrant mentality like the Bushes have, or someone like Newt/Obama. He made some mistakes and even admitted to them and regretted them in his diaries, things you would never hear from Bush and his braindead son. I always identify with Reagan the most since i during my whole childhood to mid teens, he was my president...and hell, id take the 80s and Reagan again any day, over the garbage we have now.

 

[Giuliani was there on 911]

Honestly I don't see any harm in Ron Paul running as a 3rd party. We have nothing to lose.

 

[Join The Paul Side]

Yep, if he doesn't win, which unfortunately, is shaping up that way unless something big happens soon, then whoever else gets nominated i couldn't care less about and would love seeing him go 3rd party and ruin their shitty love fest for Newt/Mitt. Their chances of them beating Obama without Ron, is still extremely low, and with a 3rd party run, they would surely be out of it. Nice way to go out with a big FU, since they f'd him for over a year.

Every self respecting Ron Paul supporter should see it this way.

 

[Giuliani was there on 911]

Perot was a billionaire.

I don't think that matters that much. We know how to raise a ton of money.

 

[Dave39168]

Ron Paul as a third party is a no-win scenario for us, and only justified if the US completely starts falling apart between now and the general elections.

In the "worst" case scenario, we get maybe 1% of the vote, are marginalized to hell and back, and our movement/ideology's credibility (and lets be honest, Ron Paul's ideas are much bigger and more important than Ron Paul himself, and we need the next generation to take things farther if we really want to get anywhere) will be tarnished heavily.

In the "best" case scenario, we get maybe 20-30% (if Romney and Obama are heavily tarnished, if we get high profile support, if Peter Thiel decides to spend a chunk of his fortune playing David Koch/Adelson bankrolling us, if the media is replaced by angels), primarily (if not exclusively) from Romney, win a handful of irrelevant states maybe, and end up like Ross Perot: utterly detested by the Republicans for "stealing the election" and serving as an example for why never to vote third party. If anything, this result would be worse, as it would destroy all the influence we've built up over the years in a giant act of political suicide. There is no chance in hell of a third party candidate winning a US presidential election until things pass the point of no return.

Agree 100% and want to add the country will not fall apart in the next year. The banksters have kept the house of cards propped up almost a hundred years... what's a few more months?

 

[alucard13mmfmj]

The Republican party establishment already largely hates us, and I see nothing worthwhile to spend what little political capital we have with them on. We can draw voters from both sides, and exposing that many people to the ideas of liberty plants a lot of seeds.

I agree. The higher ups hate us and wish we would go away. Frankly, I dont think the GOP deserves Ron Paul. Ron Paul has done a great service to the GOP by bringing in fresh blood into the party and re-invigorating it with youth and new interests.

I think we can be a substantial player in the General election (assuming the media isnt too mean). We already draw a lot of independents/democrats and we have GOPers who are tired of the same. The main enemy is the media. I suggest we boycott them or something of that nature.. Occupy Media!!!! We all agree that the media is the mouthpiece and source of power for the establishment. We should just boycott them.

 

[driller80545]

I'm dreaming??? have you not seen the change in people's minds in the past four years? have you not seen the Federal Reserve go from something people never questioned to something that is discussed on National Television? Have you not seen the GOP candidates atleast paying lip service to Ron Paul's ideas this time? Have you not seen them go from attacking his like Guilliani did in 2008 to Newt agreeing with him during the debates this time. They aren't able to treat his as bad as before because more people are waking up. IT IS A SLOOOOOW PROCESS. Have you not seen the numbers on the forums growing by leaps and bounds? Have you not seen more bumper stickers? more news stories? more celebrity endorsements? more raw numbers in the primaries and caucuses? more organization from the grassroots?


.

We're not going to change the country overnight. And we're not going to do it in four or eight years either.

Do you think if we run third party someone is going to hand him the presidency????

I thought that the 08 campaign was much more enthusiastic. I haven't seen the numbers change substantially. I do see other candidates closer to RP than before, but that has more to do with the economy than anything else. Last time it was the war.
I doubt that a third party run would hand RP the presidency, but it might and this way won't.

 

[MsDoodahs]

All the talk about a 3rd party run is irrelevant here - it is up to RON PAUL to decide what HE wants to do.

And if he doesn't want to do it (which is what he has said repeatedly), then he won't do it.

 

[JJ2]

I don't think that matters that much. We know how to raise a ton of money.

Yeah, but not enough. Obama's gonna spend a billion dollars.

Would the media ignore Paul, or give him lots of attention so that Obama would win?

 

[ssjevot]

All the talk about a 3rd party run is irrelevant here - it is up to RON PAUL to decide what HE wants to do.

And if he doesn't want to do it (which is what he has said repeatedly), then he won't do it.

Not if we crash the Americans Elect caucus. Then he'll be on the ballot in 50 states no matter what happens.

 

[lakerssuck92]

People who are clamoring for a 3rd party run aren't seeing the big picture. Our numbers growing - more and more are coming over to the side of liberty. Even if Paul doesn't win, he is laying the groundwork for future Liberty candidates to run in his stead (think Rand in 2016). Think of the fact that Ron wins young voters decisively. We are the future of the GOP and its just a matter of time before we take over. By running 3rd party, we won't achieve anything expect generate animosity towards us from the rank and file GOP voters. Whether justified or not, they will blame us if they lose to Obama in November...