Nevada results rolling in now!

[SCOTUSman]

Not everyone who isn't on-board with Paul is a neocon. Very few are, in fact.

Taft may not matter to conservatives, because they don't really know what he stood for. Goldwater is a different story. Reagan, even more so. I think a very large number of conservatives want someone with the principles that Reagan espoused. They were the same as Goldwater's. Problem is, they aren't *hearing* those things from Dr. Paul, so they don't recognize that what they want so badly, is right in front of them.

I know that. But the neocons have completely infiltrated the Republican party. They were non-existent for awhile. They were strongly opposed to the wars in Bosnia. Post 9/11 changed the GOP so much.

Reagan was a massive spender and one of the biggest feeders of the War on Drugs. I don't get the obsession with him. Possibly the most overrated GOP president (sans Lincoln).

As for Goldwater, I've heard his name disparaged so much. I went to a speech by Ann Coulter once, where she said the reason why GOP loses elections is when they nominate moderates like McCain, Dole, and GOLDWATER. Yes she claimed that Goldwater's views were out of line with the republican party and was luck to get the GOP nomination. For whatever God knows what reason, many Republicans LOVE Coulter.

 

[skilt]

two options

Chances would be against us. Still, we can do a lot of damage on both sides. There are a lot of antiwar pro civil liberty people that are furious with Obama. We'd have a small chance of winning.

The way I see it - we continue to work within the Republican party framework with the hopes that somebody like Justin Amash or Rand Paul take off. We think 10-12 years out and have patience (meanwhile our country is going to shit).

Or we find a billionaire(s) who can bypass the media with a vengence.

Or, get out and all move the Free State project to New Zealand.


My pride tells me option one is the way to go. My Brain tells me option three is really the way to go.

 

[kylejack]

Ok well when someone gets 1144 GOP delegates I would support a third party run. But its probably irrelevant b/c i don't believe he will run 3rd party. He's a 12 term republican congressman. Republican. He has stated himself that you get ignored as 3rd party

Yes, 12 terms, not 13 terms. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

[driller80545]

Very few people watch the debates. The media is in control of what 90% of people think. The media attention is actually very important. You want to see Ron Paul disappear from the publics eye??? have him run third party. We need the public. we need to change their beliefs and wake them up to what is going on. We're not going to win a general election with the current level of support especially as a third party.

I don't know. It seems that independents are a huge percentage of the population anymore. Way moreso than they used to be. And that is because they don't like Rep. or Dems. An independent with some financing might draw a large contingent from both sides as well as from the ever growing independent voters.

 

[Dave39168]

Do you actually believe that he shouldn't even try? That equals guaranteed failure. Trying all options to save this nation and failing is a lot better than not trying all options to save this nation and failing.

I'm saying that running for the GOP nomination is ten times more effective at this point than anything else. Just look how much progress has been made in four years. How much support did RP get in '88? What about the libertarian candidates in 2008, 2004, Bob Barr, Badnarik, Harry Brown. What about chuck baldwin. Most people do not even know who they are. Running third party will not save this failing nation, unfortunately.

 

[kylejack]

I'm saying that running for the GOP nomination is ten times more effective at this point than anything else. Just look how much progress has been made in four years. How much support did RP get in '88? What about the libertarian candidates in 2008, 2004, Bob Barr, Badnarik, Harry Brown. What about chuck baldwin. Most people do not even know who they are. Running third party will not save this failing nation, unfortunately.

We can have our cake and eat it too. We have already run the GOP race. If we don't get traction in the next few states it will be time to move on to the General, because Romney's going to be inevitable soon.

 

[neverseen]

What about the libertarian candidates in 2008, 2004, Bob Barr, Badnarik, Harry Brown. What about chuck baldwin. Most people do not even know who they are. Running third party will not save this failing nation, unfortunately.

Never heard of these fellows. Should i google them or not worth the time?

 

[Dave39168]

Yes, 12 terms, not 13 terms. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

What about the delegates who are unpledged. What about the chance of a brokered convention. What about the people in the states that haven't voted yet who will be carefully deciding who they should cast their vote for over the next couple months. If Paul is seeking the GOP nomination some people will learn about him while decided who to vote for. If Paul is out of the GOP race then these people may never seriously look into him. If he's out of the GOP race he's off the map.

 

[driller80545]

I'm saying that running for the GOP nomination is ten times more effective at this point than anything else. Just look how much progress has been made in four years. How much support did RP get in '88? What about the libertarian candidates in 2008, 2004, Bob Barr, Badnarik, Harry Brown. What about chuck baldwin. Most people do not even know who they are. Running third party will not save this failing nation, unfortunately.

What progress do you see? The media still ridicules him. He does get a few more votes than last time, but not enough to win anywhere. I think that he has peaked with this republican party idea. A huge percentage of the public despise republicans, as do I. And rightfully so. It is time to start a new party and watch the people jump.

 

[Dave39168]

Never heard of these fellows. Should i google them or not worth the time?

They are Libertarian or constitution minded candidates of years past. My point being that you've never heard of them because they ran as third party. My point made exactly.

 

[Join The Paul Side]

Very few people watch the debates. The media is in control of what 90% of people think. The media attention is actually very important. You want to see Ron Paul disappear from the publics eye??? have him run third party. We need the public. we need to change their beliefs and wake them up to what is going on. We're not going to win a general election with the current level of support especially as a third party.

When Ron is in the media all they do is mock him and disparrage him. They marginalize him and distort his views. They have been doing this since 2007. What makes you think this is going to change?

They are not going to wake up. They are not going to change. But they have already admitted that a Ron Paul 3rd party/Indy run will cost them the election.

I don't want a Ron Paul speaking slot at the convention as a consolation prize. But what I do want as a consolation prize is a GOP defeat by our hands for the way they have treated Ron Paul all these years. We deserve to hand them their asses and they deserve our fury.

 

[driller80545]

What percentage of the voting public are "undecided" or "independent"?

 

[Student Of Paulism]

They are Libertarian or constitution minded candidates of years past. My point being that you've never heard of them because they ran as third party. My point made exactly.

Chuck Endorsed Ron this year, and his son, Timothy, writes a lot of good articles on his site. Also appear on AJ's show a lot. Definitely worth checking out what they have to say, but i agree, the LP needs to be built up a lot more. The whole 2 party system has ensconced people into it being the only viable system, and it shouldn't be. Hell, it's essentially one party now with how bad things have gotten.

When Ron is in the media all they do is mock him and disparrage him. They marginalize him and distort his views. They have been doing this since 2007. What makes you think this is going to change?

They are not going to wake up. They are not going to change. But they have already admitted that a Ron Paul 3rd party/Indy run will cost them the election.

Yep, if he doesn't win, which unfortunately, is shaping up that way unless something big happens soon, then whoever else gets nominated i couldn't care less about and would love seeing him go 3rd party and ruin their shitty love fest for Newt/Mitt. Their chances of them beating Obama without Ron, is still extremely low, and with a 3rd party run, they would surely be out of it. Nice way to go out with a big FU, since they f'd him for over a year.

 

[Ender]

Not everyone who isn't on-board with Paul is a neocon. Very few are, in fact.

Taft may not matter to conservatives, because they don't really know what he stood for. Goldwater is a different story. Reagan, even more so. I think a very large number of conservatives want someone with the principles that Reagan espoused. They were the same as Goldwater's. Problem is, they aren't *hearing* those things from Dr. Paul, so they don't recognize that what they want so badly, is right in front of them.

Most Reps fall in line with the neocon line- if they didn't, Newt would be history, with Santorum running right behind him; Mitt would be running a company instead of in politics.

Reagan was a charming person with a teleprompter and a CIA boss as his VP. Combine that with an attempted assassination and Reagan had good reason to become stricken with Alzheimers.

People don't even know what the Constitution consists of or what constitutes constitutional law. The level of ignorance is amazing and the most needed thing is education. That's what RP supporters should be about- educating people in fun and eye-opening ways. No better-than-thou or disgust, but a full blown education system that can bypass all the crap from public school and the MSM.

 

[Dave39168]

What progress do you see? The media still ridicules him. He does get a few more votes than last time, but not enough to win anywhere. I think that he has peaked with this republican party idea. A huge percentage of the public despise republicans, as do I. And rightfully so. It is time to start a new party and watch the people jump.

It would be difficult as hell to fix the GOP, but still about a thousand times easier than starting a 3rd party. The system is in place, we just have to take advantage of it. Go to your county GOP meetings. Get like minded people to go. Run for a position in the county GOP, get on executive committee, chances are they probably begging for people to get involved. We can easily change the party from the ground up. Starting a 3rd party from scratch would be insane when the ground work is laid.

Look how quickly the Neocons took over the party. Back in the 90s it wasn't all Neocon in the GOP there was a pretty good rift. 15 years or so pass with the help of 9/11 and now its in their total control. The party can be changed. It will very difficult but it is the most likely scenario to actually work.

 

[driller80545]

It would be difficult as hell to fix the GOP, but still about a thousand times easier than starting a 3rd party. The system is in place, we just have to take advantage of it. Go to your county GOP meetings. Get like minded people to go. Run for a position in the county GOP, get on executive committee, chances are they probably begging for people to get involved. We can easily change the party from the ground up. Starting a 3rd party from scratch would be insane when the ground work is laid.

Look how quickly the Neocons took over the party. Back in the 90s it wasn't all Neocon in the GOP there was a pretty good rift. 15 years or so pass with the help of 9/11 and now its in their total control. The party can be changed. It will very difficult but it is the most likely scenario to actually work.

You're dreaming. Its a dying party, and needs to.

 

[Dave39168]

Most Reps fall in line with the neocon line- if they didn't, Newt would be history, with Santorum running right behind him; Mitt would be running a company instead of in politics.

Reagan was a charming person with a teleprompter and a CIA boss as his VP. Combine that with an attempted assassination and Reagan had good reason to become stricken with Alzheimers.

People don't even know what the Constitution consists of or what constitutes constitutional law. The level of ignorance is amazing and the most needed thing is education. That's what RP supporters should be about- educating people in fun and eye-opening ways. No better-than-thou or disgust, but a full blown education system that can bypass all the crap from public school and the MSM.

Exactly! We've got to educate people. People have years of their lives invested in what they believe to be true. Its a huge blow to their ego for them to consider that they've been lied to about so much by people they have voted for, parties they have supported, and newspeople they have trusted. Its not going to be easy, but we win by changing people's minds.

 

[cdw]

What percentage of the voting public are "undecided" or "independent"?

Last I heard it was close to or at 40 percent. I know that it's a higher percentage than Dems and Repubicans. The percentage breakdown goes something like 40 indy, 30 dems and 30 republicans. Ron does have a chance to at least scare the hell out of the powers that be if he ran 3rd party, but I wouldn't want him to decide unless either Romney wins the nomination outright or wins it a brokered convention. Or is that not possible? Is there a certain cut-off date that he has to decide to run independent?

Either way, back to the subject of the thread. Nevada GOP sucks.

 

[Giuliani was there on 911]

I think we should run third party. Ross Perot got 20% of the vote in 1992 , and the times are so much different today and we appeal to a much broader base than him. A lot of the problems that plague 3rd party candidates aren't an issue for us. Such as fundraising and name recognition. Everybody knows who Ron Paul is and we're great at raising money.

We need to change the current narative that Ron Paul's only gonna hurt the republican nominee, when in fact he's gonna hurt Obama a lot too. If he runs as a third party we can really start trying to appeal more to all those disenfranchised democrats and left leaning independents. I'll admit I did nothing for the campaign in 08 and now but if Ron ran as a 3rd party candidate I'd work my ass off. The supporters who live in the early primary and caucus states won't be the only ones who'll feel obligated to help out. We all will .

 

[One Last Battle!]

We can have our cake and eat it too. We have already run the GOP race. If we don't get traction in the next few states it will be time to move on to the General, because Romney's going to be inevitable soon.

Ron Paul as a third party is a no-win scenario for us, and only justified if the US completely starts falling apart between now and the general elections.

In the "worst" case scenario, we get maybe 1% of the vote, are marginalized to hell and back, and our movement/ideology's credibility (and lets be honest, Ron Paul's ideas are much bigger and more important than Ron Paul himself, and we need the next generation to take things farther if we really want to get anywhere) will be tarnished heavily.

In the "best" case scenario, we get maybe 20-30% (if Romney and Obama are heavily tarnished, if we get high profile support, if Peter Thiel decides to spend a chunk of his fortune playing David Koch/Adelson bankrolling us, if the media is replaced by angels), primarily (if not exclusively) from Romney, win a handful of irrelevant states maybe, and end up like Ross Perot: utterly detested by the Republicans for "stealing the election" and serving as an example for why never to vote third party. If anything, this result would be worse, as it would destroy all the influence we've built up over the years in a giant act of political suicide. There is no chance in hell of a third party candidate winning a US presidential election until things pass the point of no return.