Need some moral support fellow RPers

[gwax23]

So there was a heated debate in this political science class im in regarding the Minimum wage. I was making the argument that it creates unemployment. Youve all probably heard the arguments before the standard, "Why Stop at 9? Why not make it 50? 100?" etc etc. This one marxists asshole in the corner of the room kept interrupting me calling me an idiot etc etc. Then I started debating with him. He then went on a 15 minute tirade about how Republicans first instituted minimum wage in the 50's and other irrelevant bullshit and how wed all be making 3 dollars at McDonalds. I told him I wasnt a Republican so why does that matter and that no one would work for those wages and if they did it must mean it was there best option etc etc. Finally when I thought this guy couldnt get any stupider he started to argue that Businesses dont factor in labour costs when they hire people, so minimum wage is irrelevant.

This is not only the kind of brainwashing we are up against but we are up against a real scary level of shear stupidity. I think I won over a few in the class but this kind of stupidity is scary...very very scary.

Anyway can you all post here and tell me I was right he was wrong cause my feelings where kinda hurt.

kthxbye

 

[lib3rtarian]

You were right, he was wrong.

 

[Seraphim]

He was more wrong than I previously thought a person was capable of.

Employers don't factor in labor costs? Uhhhhhh....What? It's one of the KEY cost factors employers/businesses factor.

99.99% chance this dolt fails every important endeavor he attempts in life.

 

[Seraphim]

You were right about the other stuff, too.

 

[lib3rtarian]

Show your class this video in your next class:

 

[juleswin]

One of my problems with the minimum wage apart from the anti liberty reasons is this. It is the motivation factor i.e. unintended consequences. I worked for burger king for a while and the job was ok, in fact I had a whale of a time at work but the pay check was so little that it paid for just the bare necessities. Mainly because of this reason, I quit the job and went to school in pursuit of a higher in demand and paying job.

Now if some govt bureaucrat would have paid me a living wage (whatever that is), there is a good chance that I would have ended up working as a burger boy for the rest of my life. Maybe not, but the point is this, if this incentive is diminished by minimum wage, more people will end up working menial jobs that normal pay minimum wage and that would reduce the number of people that will go into say construction, medical, security, engineering, financial workers etc etc that we need more.

 

[Acala]

You were not only right, but, unlike most economic issues, there really is little debate among professional economists on that one. Holding the price of goods artificially high by force causes a surpluse, whether it is cheese or labor.

 

[Seraphim]

Even worse - the minimum wage pushes labor out of the work force, specifically young/inexperienced workers as employers have to pay each one they hire more.

So you get a permanent underclass of people who cannot get the first job required for the next job.

One of my problems with the minimum wage apart from the anti liberty reasons is this. It is the motivation factor i.e. unintended consequences. I worked for burger king for a while and the job was ok, in fact I had a whale of a time at work but the pay check was so little that it paid for just the bare necessities. Mainly because of this reason, I quit the job and went to school in pursuit of a higher in demand and paying job.

Now if some govt bureaucrat would have paid me a living wage (whatever that is), there is a good chance that I would have ended up working as a burger boy for the rest of my life. Maybe not, but the point is this, if this incentive is diminished by minimum wage, more people will end up working menial jobs that normal pay minimum wage and that would reduce the number of people that will go into say construction, medical, security, engineering, financial workers etc etc that we need more.

 

[gwax23]

You were not only right, but, unlike most economic issues, there really is little debate among professional economists on that one. Holding the price of goods artificially high by force causes a surplus, whether it is cheese or labor.

Omg when I said the majority of economists agree that minimum wage causes unemployment this guy pulled some figures out of his ass from some academic institute saying 51% of economists say it doesnt. When I said "51%? Just 1% more than majority seems kinda fishy you didnt make that number up?" Then he he argued some more and got up and left the room.....

He couldnt argue with me he didnt answer any of my points he just rambled on about republicans and personally insulting me and a few others who disagreed with him.

This was an older gentlemen and he was...how you say..heavy set? He must be coming back to school to earn his degree which is fine but the level of douchiness this guy exhibited was off the charts.

Everyone thanks for your support keep them coming. A "Gwax23 your the best!" wouldnt be too bad either.

 

[Christian Liberty]

You were right, he was wrong.

While I don't agree with it, I think Friedman's NIT at least a more logical sense than a minimum wage.

 

[kathy88]

He was more wrong than I previously thought a person was capable of.

Employers don't factor in labor costs? Uhhhhhh....What? It's one of the KEY cost factors employers/businesses factor.

99.99% chance this dolt fails every important endeavor he attempts in life.

Naaa. He probably has a very successful career ahead of him as a community organizer.

 

[cajuncocoa]

You were right, but it's useless to try to argue economics with Marxists.

 

[Seraphim]

He's a brainwashed moron. End thread.

Omg when I said the majority of economists agree that minimum wage causes unemployment this guy pulled some figures out of his ass from some academic institute saying 51% of economists say it doesnt. When I said "51%? Just 1% more than majority seems kinda fishy you didnt make that number up?" Then he he argued some more and got up and left the room.....

He couldnt argue with me he didnt answer any of my points he just rambled on about republicans and personally insulting me and a few others who disagreed with him.

This was an older gentlemen and he was...how you say..heavy set? He must be coming back to school to earn his degree which is fine but the level of douchiness this guy exhibited was off the charts.

Everyone thanks for your support keep them coming. A "Gwax23 your the best!" wouldnt be too bad either.

 

[Seraphim]

OP just confirmed my view. Older man, heavy set, EASILY on the back half of his life.

He's gone no where, knows it and now wants to blame everyone but himself for his miserable failure of a life.

Naaa. He probably has a very successful career ahead of him as a community organizer.

 

[enjerth]

The problem is that people look at money as though it were tangible. It is an abstract, and what it represents in the market is a piece of unrealized prosperity, power to hope and dream, the power to act tomorrow.

If you divide a pie into 6 pieces, you can feed 6 people.

So, obviously you can divide that pie into 350 million pieces and make everyone happy! Let's make it $50/hour minimum wage so everyone can eat all the pie they want!

Right?

The answer is not more wages, it's more pies. Get in the kitchen and make me some pie!

 

[BethanyGrace]

Great job debating Gwax23. There are just some people that are so brainwashed they won't listen to any common sense.

 

[gwax23]

Alright guys more ridiculousness coming up.

He and a few others kept citing Europe in particular Scandinavian countries as places we need to emulated cause they are doing "so great" in their words. He claimed they had high minimum wages which I thought was true and I didnt have a counter argument. He also claimed lower unemployment and all this bullshit.

Frustrated I just did some research (Wikipedia) and found something remarkable that I wish I had known.

Norway
Sweeden
Finland
Denmark
Iceland
Germany
Austria
Switzerland
Italy
Cyprus

None of the above countries even HAVE a minimum wage. Zero zip. Nothing no minimum wage. I found this incredible and next class Im bringing this up. This supposed socialist paradises (Some have higher economic freedom rankings than the US) have NO Minimum wage. Only France Belgium and the Netherlands have a Minimum wage higher than ours in Europe. Most of Europe have lower minimum wages and ironically that most widely cited as being "successful" countries dont even have a minimum wage.

 

[mczerone]

So there was a heated debate in this class political science class im in regarding the Minimum wage. I was making the argument that it creates unemployment. Youve all probably heard the arguments before the standard, "Why Stop at 9? Why not make it 50? 100?" etc etc. This one marxists asshole in the corner of the room kept interrupting me calling me an idiot etc etc. Then I started debating with him. He then went on a 15 minute tirade about how Republicans first instituted minimum wage in the 50's and other irrelevant bullshit and how wed all be making 3 dollars at McDonalds. I told him I wasnt a Republican so why does that matter and that no one would work for those wages and if they did it must mean it was there best option etc etc. Finally when I thought this guy couldnt get any stupider he started to argue that Businesses dont factor in labour costs when they hire people, so minimum wage is irrelevant.

This is not only the kind of brainwashing we are up against but we are up against a real scary level of shear stupidity. I think I won over a few in the class but this kind of stupidity is scary...very very scary.

Anyway can you all post here and tell me I was right he was wrong cause my feelings where kinda hurt.

kthxbye

You have the logical high ground, and economic observations would align with your views.

Take a lesson from this: You are surrounded by people that don't care about that. They are emotionally driven to be marxists, to feel that they are persecuted by the out-group, to cling to irrationality when it preserves their in-group identity.

You can't change them. You can present the most intelligent, rational, proven argument to them, and they will call you names.

Forget about them. Separate yourself from them. Move to NH for the Free State Project, or find a campus or social group that won't belabor these dead theories against you. Focus on yourself, doing the best you can and staying happy.

Don't feed the trolls.

 

[kathy88]

Alright guys more ridiculousness coming up.

He and a few others kept citing Europe in particular Scandinavian countries as places we need to emulated cause they are doing "so great" in their words. He claimed they had high minimum wages which I thought was true and I didnt have a counter argument. He also claimed lower unemployment and all this bullshit.

Frustrated I just did some research (Wikipedia) and found something remarkable that I wish I had known.

Norway
Sweeden
Finland
Denmark
Iceland
Germany
Austria
Switzerland
Italy
Cyprus

None of the above countries even HAVE a minimum wage. Zero zip. Nothing no minimum wage. I found this incredible and next class Im bringing this up. This supposed socialist paradises (Some have higher economic freedom rankings than the US) have NO Minimum wage. Only France Belgium and the Netherlands have a Minimum wage higher than ours in Europe. Most of Europe have lower minimum wages and ironically that most widely cited as being "successful" countries dont even have a minimum wage.

Wow. Dude was really talking out of his ass. Hope you pwn him again worse next time. lol

 

[juleswin]

Alright guys more ridiculousness coming up.

He and a few others kept citing Europe in particular Scandinavian countries as places we need to emulated cause they are doing "so great" in their words. He claimed they had high minimum wages which I thought was true and I didnt have a counter argument. He also claimed lower unemployment and all this bullshit.

Frustrated I just did some research (Wikipedia) and found something remarkable that I wish I had known.

Norway
Sweeden
Finland
Denmark
Iceland
Germany
Austria
Switzerland
Italy
Cyprus

None of the above countries even HAVE a minimum wage. Zero zip. Nothing no minimum wage. I found this incredible and next class Im bringing this up. This supposed socialist paradises (Some have higher economic freedom rankings than the US) have NO Minimum wage. Only France Belgium and the Netherlands have a Minimum wage higher than ours in Europe. Most of Europe have lower minimum wages and ironically that most widely cited as being "successful" countries dont even have a minimum wage.

And even if they had minimum wage laws, how are we to know that they are not prosperous in-spite of their minimum wage laws? There are so many other factors that contribute to economic success of a nation and being the human factor. Also I have reason somewhere that socialism tend to be less disastrous in small homogenous societies.

So one has to really delve into the numbers to understand why their system is working