Need some help responding to a liberal/former Republican

[noname_1]

The reaction to Obama's re-election has been met with plenty of posts from my conservative Facebook friends lamenting the gloom and doom that's going to come upon us all now (compared to, say, back when Paul was marginalized in the primaries) that Obama's got another four years in office. I'd like to respond to a friend who's addressing this reaction and claiming that government assistance is a good thing for people who need it and that the free market is a "race to the bottom." How would you reply to someone like this?

So, I've seen more than few people remark that the victory for Obama is a good thing for all the greedy parasites who want to mooch off of the government or whatever (insert classist diatribe here)...

And I have to put in my two cents-- oh, it's down to one cent now? Figures.

I have a fair amount of friends who are reliant on Government assistance for various reasons. Like the friend who works seven days a week at a job that offers no benefits (like health insurance or retirement) who is taking care of 6 people and is grateful to have his food stamps because his weekly paycheck isn't enough (even though the owner is a multimillionaire who just bought a restaurant as his new toy). Or the friend who spent the last four years being forced into overtime nearly every day (60 hour weeks) driving a forklift for a company that posted record numbers every year of his employment but could never opt out of his overtime because he would be replaced by a multitude of desperate temps... he's now on unemployment because he was fired for something he didn't do and had no recourse to appeal to get his job back because his company crushed unions.

Or the various disabled friends I have who are unable to find any meaningful employment because their disabilities make them unattractive to potential employers, so they scrape by on a meager disability check that's barely enough to keep the lights on and there would be no food in the pantry without their food stamps .

I know many people who find themselves in this type of situation. And not a single one of the people I know are lazy or feel entitled to such help. They are desperate. They are working their guts out trying to survive and get by in a system that has taken advantage of their desperation and their misfortune. Inevitably, these friends have at one time or another had to rely on credit to get by, because these people always live paycheck to paycheck. There are no savings to fall back on when a small problem arises. As a result, nearly all of them are in a constant state of trying to catch up and hang on, hoping and praying for some break some day that has eluded them for most of their adult lives.

Not a single one of my friends "wants" to be reliant on the Government. Relying on government assistance sucks. And anyone who is under the impression that the poor in this country are greedy and entitled have never seen my friend's mom cleaning houses while wearing a neck brace (no health insurance either and she's in her 60's).

If you have the arrogance to view the struggling classes this way... if you are under the impression that an Obama victory is a "win" for all us lazy bastards who just want to cash in on the hard work of the wealthy... then you don't have a clue about what's really happening in this country. You don't understand who are the real parasites leeching off of the incredibly hard work of others.

You are, in my opinion, a part of the problem.

 

[GraniteHills]

The reaction to Obama's re-election has been met with plenty of posts from my conservative Facebook friends lamenting the gloom and doom that's going to come upon us all now (compared to, say, back when Paul was marginalized in the primaries) that Obama's got another four years in office. I'd like to respond to a friend who's addressing this reaction and claiming that government assistance is a good thing for people who need it and that the free market is a "race to the bottom." How would you reply to someone like this?

Tell him if he sees you as such a "problem" to not bother asking you for food, shelter, and warmth when the shit hits the fan thanks to the entitlement-induced economic collapse.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Ask this person where the hell all that "assistance" he/she wants the government to hand out is supposed to come from, if not the market?

Ask him/her why the standard of living in EVERY country that has EVER adopted something like the free market beats the EVER-LOVING HELL out of the standard of living in countries that DON'T have anything like a free market but that DO have plenty of "government assistance."

Or don't. There's not really any point. Republicans are bad enough. Liberals are bad enough. Someone who has managed to be both is pretty much hopeless.

Frankly, I don't understand why people even bother engaging mealy-mouthed, self-righteous, holier-than-thou "I care so much more than you do about the little guy, and that gives me the right to take what I haven't earned away from you so I can give it to someone else" types like this person.

 

[noname_1]

All good points, but I feel like I need some real ammo. The easy response to "Where does the money come from?" from his perspective is going to almost certainly be, "Well, from the people who need it the least, obviously." In his mind, the "leechers" who are taking advantage of Obama's handouts are just a tiny minority that the "conservative" media have exaggerated. As much as I despise Fox News, I don't buy that for a minute. What would be nice is some proof that there are people who will exploit the government's policies that are a significant percentage, or hard evidence that the free market isn't going to lead to monopolies and mayhem or what its benefits would be.

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Does he think that being poor or disabled or whatever gives a person the right to steal from someone? Should any person have the right to steal from others? Does he believe in equality & equal rights or not? If yes then either everybody should be allowed to steal (which would lead to chaos & destruction, so not preferable) or nobody should be allowed to steal from & force anybody, whether it be somebody poor, disabled or a government employee!

All good points, but I feel like I need some real ammo. The easy response to "Where does the money come from?" from his perspective is going to almost certainly be, "Well, from the people who need it the least, obviously." In his mind, the "leechers" who are taking advantage of Obama's handouts are just a tiny minority that the "conservative" media have exaggerated. As much as I despise Fox News, I don't buy that for a minute. What would be nice is some proof that there are people who will exploit the government's policies that are a significant percentage, or hard evidence that the free market isn't going to lead to monopolies and mayhem or what its benefits would be.

If somebody thinks that it's a "tiny" minority then those limousine-liberals should be able to help them out by being charitable, there are enough wealthy & middleclass liberals out there! Or is it that those liberals are hypocrites who have the nerve to ask government to steal from others but won't be charitable themselves?

 

[Occam's Banana]

All good points, but I feel like I need some real ammo. The easy response to "Where does the money come from?" from his perspective is going to almost certainly be, "Well, from the people who need it the least, obviously." In his mind, the "leechers" who are taking advantage of Obama's handouts are just a tiny minority that the "conservative" media have exaggerated. As much as I despise Fox News, I don't buy that for a minute. What would be nice is some proof that there are people who will exploit the government's policies that are a significant percentage, or hard evidence that the free market isn't going to lead to monopolies and mayhem or what its benefits would be.

Like I said, it doesn't really matter. NOTHING you say is going to make a damn bit of difference. Look at the material you posted in the OP.

This guy isn't interested in discovering the best way to go about producing a prosperous society that cares for its less fortunate.

He isn't trying to arrive at well-considered conclusions based on evidence and reasoned argument.

He is trying to lord over you how much of a "better" person he is than you are, becuase he "cares" and you don't.

His last line is the "money shot": YOU are the problem & HE is the solution. That is ALL that people like this *really* give a damn about. Everything else is just fluff & window-dressing.

 

[Odin]

Does he think that being poor or disabled or whatever gives a person the right to steal from someone? Should any person have the right to steal from others? Does he believe in equality & equal rights or not? If yes then either everybody should be allowed to steal (which would lead to chaos & destruction, so not preferable) or nobody should be allowed to steal from & force anybody, whether it be somebody poor, disabled or a government employee!

If somebody thinks that it's a "tiny" minority then those limousine-liberals should be able to help them out by being charitable, there are enough wealthy & middleclass liberals out there! Or is it that those liberals are hypocrites who have the nerve to ask government to steal from others but won't be charitable themselves?

Well to be honest it's not that simple. Yes if we did have a free market then that would be a good point, which is the irony, but many of the people who are very wealthy are wealthy BECAUSE of the government, not in spite of it. The marriage of corporations, or wealthy individuals, and governments, is one of the worst things about the United States.

I would just ask the friend, if he believes in big government, who does he think has the money to BUY it? Big government does not mean that the poor have their voices heard, quite the opposite in fact. Of course that's what the Democratic party is all about, they steal from the poor discreetly, to give to their wealthy friends and corporations, who donate to their campaigns, and all the while they run claiming to be fighting for the poor and 'middle class.' If they were fighting for the poor at the expense of the rich, the rich wouldn't be giving them so much money. And the healthcare law btw is good only for insurance companies, not for the people. That's what amuses me - the Democrats want you to have healthcare so they say you HAVE to buy it from an insurance company or go to prison. Yeah sucks to be you if you can't afford to buy it. They throw in bits like 'preexisting conditions' to pander to the people.