Need programmer able to code new kind of forum

[newbitech]

I just registered

self-government.us $9.99 for 12 months on a shared hosting plan.

if anyone wants to know the server specs please ask or just wait I will post later.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

I like the fundemental of this project. A comple questions..... or ideas:

It needs to also have a way where the "lower-level" can make suggestions to the "Executive-level" the other thing i would think is some type of process to vote for, and hold the executive leadership accountable.

 

[newbitech]

server specs for anyone interested in developing. BTW, I love this hosting package for development.

Hosting Packagesiteground IP Address67.15.157.3 Server Nameserv01 Home Directory/home/selfgove ThemeCrystal Operating SystemLinux Kernel Version2.6.28.5-grsec-sg2 Server TimeJan 31 12:34 CST



cPanel Version11.24.5-RELEASE

Program Versions
Program
Version

Apache:1.3.41

Curl:7.12.1

MySQL:5.0.81

PostgreSQL:8.3.3

Python:2.4.3

ImageMagic:6.4.3


Program
Version

Perl:5.8.8

PHP:5.2.5

ionCube Loader:3.1.31

Zend Optimizer:

phpMyAdmin:2.11.9.5

OpenSSL:0.9.8e-fips-rhel5

Main Domain
self-government.us



Disk Space Usage 0.1/unlimited MB

​

Monthly Bandwidth Transfer 0/unlimited MB

Inode Usage 30/150000
Processes Running 3/20
Subdomains 0/unlimited
Parked Domains 0/unlimited

Addon Domains 0/0

Email Accounts 0/unlimited

Ftp Accounts 0/unlimited

SQL Databases 0/unlimited

 

[newbitech]

so basically unlimited disk space, bandwidth, email accounts, ftp accounts, databases, sub-domains.

Alright, and I know from working with this host, that if need be support for other languages can be added such as ruby or .net

we could add shell access later, SSL certs for encrypted transactions (voting) etc etc..

 

[rancher89]

Woot for newbitech and gunny!!!

 

[newbitech]

got a little development forum set up here. For the time being, we can just collaborate in at RonPaulForums in this thread. But wanted to make sure to bring info over to the dev forum for future reference.

http://devforum.self-government.us/

 

[newbitech]

So what I am thinking to do is something like this:

the portal page is going to be links to basically everything. We can go wild with the portal page, but until the underlying structure is in place, it really doesn't matter what the portal page is doing.

create subdomains for landing pages for all the districts, states, and national.

These landing pages are pretty much the same as the main portal except focused on the level. The national landing page will need to be abstracted from the main landing page because its going to be a part of the government process.

Each landing page is going to have sub-folders for where the functionality will be in place.

So for instance the page called http://district-11-Tampa-FL.self-government.us/ will have folders called:

/forum
/voting
/news
/people
/polls
/documents
/etc.. etc..

the wiki type application to run the management of the document will be exclusively accessible to only people registered in that district.

Same with the voting application.


This discussion thread is posted here -> http://devforum.self-government.us/viewthread.php?tid=2

Ok, more about this structure.

Each district will have a database of its own. As well as its own technical administrator. Eventually, each district should have its own top level domain. But, don't want to get all crazy with that yet heh.

So there is going to be TONS of work to do on the site as far as installing the app in each district.

Also, each state will have the same setup. So we'll be repeating the structure probably 1000's of times.

The key is going to be tying these data together. I mean basically, we are making a grassroots version of fusion center but with a different purpose all together.

The other thing that I am thinking about, if this is grassroots, we should probably handle creating our own districts and even states instead of relying on the existing government. Of course that will be theoretical until our virtual governing documents are actually reflected in real world, BUT we need to make sure that we leave room for our virtual environment to break from the existing structure, otherwise, I feel like the project is meaningless.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

very interesting. I never saw this thread before. Let me see if I understand the goal here.

We are basically talking about structured online collaboration with embedded hierarchy of users. This is a closed looped system that is a perpetual cycle of modifying core governing documents based on the Robert Rules.

What needs to be done is some modeling. Let me ponder over this and see if I can come up with anything actionable on the development front.

yes yes yes! And the "floor" of the general caucus goes back to the top of the executive, making the closed-loop system. The "public" platform/action item is what comes out of the general caucus and NOT what comes out of the executive. The purpose is to achieve a broad consensus over a huge number of people.

I want to make something like this to use in my district while I am in the House, as a matter of fact.



But in the way of a large org that can have a million members and still achieve a bottom-up consensus, I am confident that this is it.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I like the fundemental of this project. A comple questions..... or ideas:

It needs to also have a way where the "lower-level" can make suggestions to the "Executive-level" the other thing i would think is some type of process to vote for, and hold the executive leadership accountable.

Yes, as I mentioned somewhere the idea has grown somewhat since this thread was published, and part of that evolution was to loop the "floor" of the general caucus back to the top of the exec layer.

and absolutely, this whole concept would not work if the layers were not elected as delegates.

I may not have really mentioned that, but the original idea was to model the convention/delegate process. The assumption was that "delegates" are elected as a matter of course, being the nature of a 'delegate' but I may not have made that clear.

 

[newbitech]

yes yes yes! And the "floor" of the general caucus goes back to the top of the executive, making the closed-loop system. The "public" platform/action item is what comes out of the general caucus and NOT what comes out of the executive. The purpose is to achieve a broad consensus over a huge number of people.

I want to make something like this to use in my district while I am in the House, as a matter of fact.



But in the way of a large org that can have a million members and still achieve a bottom-up consensus, I am confident that this is it.

Sure each district is a self-contained entity. If you wanted, each district could be broken down even further to the neighborhood level. That way neighborhood associations could have a seat at the table as well.

So the concept of editing the governing documents is handled in much the same way as a wiki page, except we are introducing an element of governance with specific rules.

This makes the documents organic so to speak. The other importance I see is that the different meetings and votes can be totally transparent, posted on the site by a scribe or the voluntary staff of the district. This would allow people in that district to have direct access to their district government from the comfort of their own homes.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

so basically unlimited disk space, bandwidth, email accounts, ftp accounts, databases, sub-domains.

Alright, and I know from working with this host, that if need be support for other languages can be added such as ruby or .net

we could add shell access later, SSL certs for encrypted transactions (voting) etc etc..

Very cool, and I love POSIX platforms. I like to host with HostPapa who has a similar sort of unlimited deal, but I don't know about the extra mile of support like that.

I never registered a domain for it because I had nobody that could help me write the platform. I rather like the domain you picked.

 

[newbitech]

Very cool, and I love POSIX platforms. I like to host with HostPapa who has a similar sort of unlimited deal, but I don't know about the extra mile of support like that.

I never registered a domain for it because I had nobody that could help me write the platform. I rather like the domain you picked.

i mean 10 bucks for a year? pfftt, for development, this host is just awesome.

 

[newbitech]

gunny, are the districts universal on the different levels?

For instance, you are running for NC State House District 49.

If you were running for US Congress would it be

US House of Reps NC District 49?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Sure each district is a self-contained entity. If you wanted, each district could be broken down even further to the neighborhood level. That way neighborhood associations could have a seat at the table as well.

Indeed, and as the nature of things go, the precincts will have a more detailed consensus than the districts, which will have a more detailed consensus than the States etc etc

So the concept of editing the governing documents is handled in much the same way as a wiki page, except we are introducing an element of governance with specific rules.

Right, so as to remove an element of chaos and subject the governing rules to a consensus vote. That way you can't have just one or a couple people imposing their will against a majority. The 'rules' are a modified version of Robert's Rules, so the point is to let everybody have their say, as opposed to "rules" designed to shut down dissent.

This makes the documents organic so to speak. The other importance I see is that the different meetings and votes can be totally transparent, posted on the site by a scribe or the voluntary staff of the district. This would allow people in that district to have direct access to their district government from the comfort of their own homes.

yes yes and yes.

The origin of the idea was to give people a kind of internet "dashboard" that would allow them to have a say (participate) in their own government. You got it exactly correct. It is different than the "direct democracy" idea because the inner layers provide direction, and the product is a description of consensus which the actual politicians can use as a guide for their activities and votes.

Something can also be added to specify how closely the politician is following the guide.

It also works for, say, a political party, forming platforms resolutions etc.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

gunny, are the districts universal on the different levels?

For instance, you are running for NC State House District 49.

If you were running for US Congress would it be

US House of Reps NC District 49?

my State House District is 49, my State Senate District is 7, and my US Congress district is 2. The reality is it would probably best break down into precincts, counties, (maybe State House and Senate, but that's special application) Congressional District, State, and national.

ETA: For the initial test-bed, probably just precinct, county, and house district. work out the flaws and bugs, make it work, and then expand it to the larger audience.

ETAA: the most critical geographic groupings would be precinct, county, and State, IMHO. The next most critical would be congressional district. As to where the state house and state senate fits in........ it'd be a lot easier if they weren't gerrymandered across counties in violation od State law.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

first thing is the forum just a temp one while this evoles or will the login be kept over?

Reason i ask is I think rather then just nicknames we should have a format for the goin names that is something like First_LastIntial_State or something like that?

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Another thought/idea. As to the general navigation I am a member of a site for online police scanners that has an amazing way set-up to drill down from a national, state, to county levels. This could maybe be a basis for some of this project. check it out and you can drill around some to get a feel for it.

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/

They also do have a forum and other things that may work to our likings.

One part which is a database using a similar drill down method, one difference is that the color code for updates which could be good for showing what areas have active "legislation/projects" and what level they are at?

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/

 

[GunnyFreedom]

So what I am thinking to do is something like this:

the portal page is going to be links to basically everything. We can go wild with the portal page, but until the underlying structure is in place, it really doesn't matter what the portal page is doing.

create subdomains for landing pages for all the districts, states, and national.

These landing pages are pretty much the same as the main portal except focused on the level. The national landing page will need to be abstracted from the main landing page because its going to be a part of the government process.

Each landing page is going to have sub-folders for where the functionality will be in place.

So for instance the page called http://district-11-Tampa-FL.self-government.us/ will have folders called:

/forum
/voting
/news
/people
/polls
/documents
/etc.. etc..

the wiki type application to run the management of the document will be exclusively accessible to only people registered in that district.

Same with the voting application.


This discussion thread is posted here -> http://devforum.self-government.us/viewthread.php?tid=2

Ok, more about this structure.

Each district will have a database of its own. As well as its own technical administrator. Eventually, each district should have its own top level domain. But, don't want to get all crazy with that yet heh.

So there is going to be TONS of work to do on the site as far as installing the app in each district.

Also, each state will have the same setup. So we'll be repeating the structure probably 1000's of times.

The key is going to be tying these data together. I mean basically, we are making a grassroots version of fusion center but with a different purpose all together.

The other thing that I am thinking about, if this is grassroots, we should probably handle creating our own districts and even states instead of relying on the existing government. Of course that will be theoretical until our virtual governing documents are actually reflected in real world, BUT we need to make sure that we leave room for our virtual environment to break from the existing structure, otherwise, I feel like the project is meaningless.

Right, well, perhaps the idea is to allow communities to self-organize. The problem w gov districting is the lines are often drawn to predispose certain outcomes and conclusions.

the problem comes when you want to use it to hold your congress critter accountable to public sentiment.

As we go forward into the future, more and more and more people will have internet access. Eventually it will become more common than television, whereupon this system could will become a kind of popular government in and of itself.

As of right now, internet users are a major subset. This is the perfect time for development, because within a decade internet use will become ubiquitous, and that's when it wil truly soar. If the platform is completely developed as internet reliance rises, then by the time it is nearly universal it will be a complete and polished platform.

Since the basic platform would be the same everywhere, constrained to geog only by membership really, this is the kind of thing that could be developed in one spot, and then cloned into 1000 others.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

first thing is the forum just a temp one while this evoles or will the login be kept over?

Reason i ask is I think rather then just nicknames we should have a format for the goin names that is something like First_LastIntial_State or something like that?

Yes, the forum is just for dev discussion. platform users should absolutely be realnames. agree 100%. Something to attack the single franchise vote.

NOT NOT NOT SSN!

 

[newbitech]

my State House District is 49, my State Senate District is 7, and my US Congress district is 2. The reality is it would probably best break down into precincts, counties, (maybe State House and Senate, but that's special application) Congressional District, State, and national.

ETA: For the initial test-bed, probably just precinct, county, and house district. work out the flaws and bugs, make it work, and then expand it to the larger audience.

gotcha, I figure to model maybe 2 cases, like yours obviously and probably mine.

so now the question comes down to what is called granularity. For example, does each precinct need its own space?

Consider each space has its own forum, voting, rules, governing documents, etc etc..

I think it should.

So in my case I am looking at

h ttp://www.231-hillsborough-fl.self-government.us/forum

as the link to where people in my precinct are posting discussions and topics about whatever..

Withing that particular subdomain "231-hillsborough-fl" I could have containers for all the different types of structures that particular precinct is attached to. For instance..

h ttp://www.231-hillsborough-fl.self-government.us/us-congress-11
h ttp://www.231-hillsborough-fl.self-government.us/fl-sentate-18
h ttp://www.231-hillsborough-fl.self-government.us/fl-house-58

here is a lookup function I used to find the details of the structures that my voting precinct is attached to.

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Secti...alDistrictID=11&LAT=27.985757&LONG=-82.459824

incidentally, I just noticed that district 58 house is vacant and up for special election.

Hmmmmm.......