Nebraska Senate overrides gov's veto, abolishes death penalty

[Occam's Banana]

Yeah. I get that the death penalty is often misused by the American courts, but what don't they misuse? Should we therefore conclude that no crimes should be punished at all? No, we reform our courts to comply with Biblical justice, rather than the tyrannical abuses that we see today.

With my apologies to Burke: "In vain you tell me that the Death Penalty is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

No matter how "reformed" any system may be - and no matter how free it might be of "abuses" - mistakes will always be made, if only in honest error. Thus, any system that incorporates the death penalty will always put some number of innocents to death. This fact alone exposes the supreme and abominable hypocrisy inherent in the death penalty - that innocent people will inevitably be put to death in the name of "justice" and of punishing those who have killed (or otherwise victimized) the innocent ...

Your implication that any of this means "that no crimes should be punished at all" is nonsensical. Other punishments can be mitigated, ameliorated or even wholly reversed, should they be proven to have been applied in error. The death penalty cannot.

To paraphrase Tolkien: "Deserves to die? I dare say he does! Many who live deserve to die. And many who die deserve to live. Can you give them life? No? Then do not be so eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wisest cannot judge unerringly in all things ..."

 

[Christian Liberty]

With my apologies to Burke: "In vain you tell me that the Death Penalty is good, but that I fall out only with the Abuse. The Thing! the Thing itself is the Abuse!"

No matter how "reformed" any system may be - and no matter how free it might be of "abuses" - mistakes will always be made, if only in honest error. Thus, any system that incorporates the death penalty will always put some number of innocents to death. This fact alone exposes the supreme and abominable hypocrisy inherent in the death penalty - that innocent people will inevitably be put to death in the name of "justice" and of punishing those who have killed (or otherwise victimized) the innocent ...

Your implication that any of this means "that no crimes should be punished at all" is nonsensical. Other punishments can be mitigated, ameliorated or even wholly reversed, should they be proven to have been applied in error. The death penalty cannot.

To paraphrase Tolkien: "Deserves to die? I dare say he does! Many who live deserve to die. And many who die deserve to live. Can you give them life? No? Then do not be so eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wisest cannot judge unerringly in all things ..."

There's going to be an epistemological divide here, seeing as my answer to this is "But what does the Bible say?"

 

[William Tell]

There's going to be an epistemological divide here, seeing as my answer to this is "But what does the Bible say?"

We do not have the death penalty for those who falsely accuse others of capital crimes like in the bible, though.

 

[fisharmor]

In April 2015, the Death Penalty Information Center said that there had been 152 exonerations of prisoners on death row in the United States since 1973.[10]

That's just the ones that were PROVED innocent.

We do not have the death penalty for those who falsely accuse others of capital crimes like in the bible, though.

Yeah, I'd be pretty comfortable with the death penalty if every one of the arresting officers, prosecuting attorneys, jurors, and judges involved with each of those 152 cases was put to death.

Walking through the Tombstone, AZ cemetery you will see a number of headstones with a name and the words "hung by mistake". I'm pretty sure this has been happening for a long time.

I am also pretty sure the law has been covering their own asses by calling these clear abuses "mistakes" for a long time.

 

[Sam I am]

have nothing to do with crimes of violence.

please restate your query.
sans emotion.

Because of course, innocent people never EVER get put on death row.

Ever!

 

[Occam's Banana]

There's going to be an epistemological divide here, seeing as my answer to this is "But what does the Bible say?"

The briefest & most cursory inspection of our very own "Peace Through Religion" forum (let alone the world at large) more than amply demonstrates the woeful inadequacy of the mere question "but what does the Bible say?" to answer anything.

 

[angelatc]

And those people will still rot in jail. This isn't the solution. The solutions are in the Bible.

I believe Jesus said to turn the other cheek.

 

[Suzanimal]

The briefest & most cursory inspection of our very own "Peace Through Religion" forum (let alone the world at large) more than amply demonstrates the woeful inadequacy of the mere question "but what does the Bible say?" to answer anything.

No doubt...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I believe Jesus said to turn the other cheek.

Yes, but Jesus' words need to be taken in the context of the rest of scripture. Jesus' words were never meant to be taken in isolation. Matthew 5:17.

 

[Christian Liberty]

The briefest & most cursory inspection of our very own "Peace Through Religion" forum (let alone the world at large) more than amply demonstrates the woeful inadequacy of the mere question "but what does the Bible say?" to answer anything.

Yeah, but most of that is just people not liking what it says. Not all of it, there are legitimate theological disputes, but at any rate, the Bible is my starting point.

 

[daviddee]

///

 

[daviddee]

...

 

[Anti Federalist]

Agreed.

I have noticed many of these little victories lately.

We will see what happens with the sunset of the Patriot Act provisions...

Dr Pauls 2008 campaign planted the seed and I believe we are started to see the first harvest...

I am surely hoping so.

Good to see you again.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

And those people will still rot in jail. This isn't the solution. The solutions are in the Bible.

There have been countless people who were on death row and were then exonerated DECADES later after evidence came forward that cleared them of wrong doing.

But no, let's kill them instead on the off chance that they're guilty. Even if it comes out that they were innocent after the fact, they were probably thugs who deserved punishment anyways

 

[Christian Liberty]

There have been countless people who were on death row and were then exonerated DECADES later after evidence came forward that cleared them of wrong doing.

But no, let's kill them instead on the off chance that they're guilty. Even if it comes out that they were innocent after the fact, they were probably thugs who deserved punishment anyways

or... let's fix our justice system, and not pretend like just because we're locking the innocent in cages rather than killing them, we're actually doing a good job. The Bible condemns nations that either kill the innocent or let those that should be executed live. Our justice system needs to be fixed so innocents aren't dying.

 

[The Free Hornet]

or... let's fix our justice system, and not pretend like just because we're locking the innocent in cages rather than killing them, we're actually doing a good job. The Bible condemns nations that either kill the innocent or let those that should be executed live. Our justice system needs to be fixed so innocents aren't dying.

You admit the broken system risks innocent lives and consider 'fixing it' (yet not this way of fixing it - some way your pastor hasn't told you yet so you can't tell us yet) as an alternative course of action. Not as 'would be nice to do' or a 'let's not forget to do' but as a 'fuck those fuckers on death row and fix the justice system that fucked them because BIBLE'.

BTW, nobody here - AFAIK - is pretending "we're actually doing a good job" WRT the justice system. What does your fairy tale book say about strawmen?

And if the jury had their lives and liberty in the balance, I would reconsider the issue.

 

[CT4Liberty]

There's going to be an epistemological divide here, seeing as my answer to this is "But what does the Bible say?"

That we should round up all the gays and adulterers and have them executed? Are you ok with that? That some 15 year old kid gets killed for nothing more than being gay? Or that having an affair is punished the same way rape and murder are...although really just the women adulterers, weird how when a man and woman commit adultery they only ever seem to bring the woman to get stoned.

The funny thing is, when judgement time came, death was often not the verdict from God or Jesus. "He is without sin" and whatnot.

If we were all infallible beings, able to dispense judgement without error, sure...but then we wouldn't need to.

 

[Christian Liberty]

That we should round up all the gays and adulterers and have them executed? Are you ok with that? That some 15 year old kid gets killed for nothing more than being gay? Or that having an affair is punished the same way rape and murder are...although really just the women adulterers, weird how when a man and woman commit adultery they only ever seem to bring the woman to get stoned.

The funny thing is, when judgement time came, death was often not the verdict from God or Jesus. "He is without sin" and whatnot.

If we were all infallible beings, able to dispense judgement without error, sure...but then we wouldn't need to.

Well, I'm a bit pre-modern but this is still a strawman.

First of all, both the man and the woman were executed for adultery. It may also have been possible for the victim to mitigate the punishment.

Second of all, nobody gets "rounded up" in Biblical law. In order for something like that to be punished, you have to have two witnesses. There isn't a proactive police force actively looking for people to punish. And absolutely nobody was punished for "being gay". Only actual witnessed acts were punished.

Third of all, the "he is without sin" bit is often misinterpreted, if it was even in the original at all (it most likely was not in the original manuscripts, see the footnote that is in most Bibles.)

Fourth of all, I understand the problem with sinful men intitiating judgment. There is a reason why the Hebrew Republic was so limited, two witnesses were needed to punish anything, and if the witnesses were proven to have lied, they could receive the same punishment that they wished upon the other person. Today I understand we have other types of evidence, so I'm not sure exactly how that would play in were a Christian theonomy to ever be instituted, but at the very least you would need the same amount of proof that was required then (if not more due to technological advances, I'm not sure.)

 

[Christian Liberty]

You admit the broken system risks innocent lives and consider 'fixing it' (yet not this way of fixing it - some way your pastor hasn't told you yet so you can't tell us yet) as an alternative course of action. Not as 'would be nice to do' or a 'let's not forget to do' but as a 'fuck those fuckers on death row and fix the justice system that fucked them because BIBLE'.

BTW, nobody here - AFAIK - is pretending "we're actually doing a good job" WRT the justice system. What does your fairy tale book say about strawmen?

And if the jury had their lives and liberty in the balance, I would reconsider the issue.

First of all, I don't listen to/agree with my pastor on political matters.

Second of all, I'm not saying forget them at all. But, if they're in prison, they're still being forgotten. The solution is that our entire system is corrupt and needs an overhaul.

 

[mrsat_98]

Nebraska lawmakers abolish the death penalty, narrowly overriding governor’s veto

I am as jaded and cynical as they come, with regard to the political process.

But it's small victories like this that indicate at least some progress is possible and is being made.

And that every little bit of hell raising and awareness is making the difference.

Keep pushing.

Too bad.

Lots of criminals richly deserving of execution will keep breathing, and at enormous taxpayer expense.

How many innocent people are you willing to see die, in order to get "justice"?

I would limit it, not abolish it. It needs stricter scrutiny.

Did the thought ever cross anyones mind that they actually read the part of the constitution in which the death penalty applies to treason and they where just covering that ass.