"National Divorce" - is it time to split up?

"Our nation's growing ideological self-segregation is proceeding nicely." -- Michael Malice

https://twitter.com/kfor/status/1669543614039441408
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No, they are not.

Your house is on fire.

You are trapped inside.

Saying, at that point, "I better not stay here" is not the result of careful logical analysis.

It's a simple statement of fact.

Assuming you want you and your posterity to live.

But what if by opening the door to exit, you then allow embers to fly out which ignite the rest of the neighborhood? My point is simply that we've (Americans) been here before, the history is documented and the results weren't great for the average person, as it gave the bankers carte blanche to change whatever they wanted, including the very founding documents of the republic. It's clearly being engineered once again in order to carry out the Great Reset that they want.
 
Local Secession Movements: From Staten Island to the South
https://odysee.com/@mises:1/local-secession-movements-from-staten:d
by Mises Media | 07 September 2023

On this episode of Radio Rothbard, Ryan McMaken and Tho Bishop look at county and city-level secession movements and what it means for political self-determination. In a recent article, Ryan McMaken highlighted renewed calls for Staten Island to secede from New York City, but other recent examples include attempts by taxpayers in areas of Georgia and Alabama to break away from the control of mismanagement of local governments. Tho and Ryan look at the value these initiatives have, and the arguments used to try to stop them.

Recommended Reading:

"Let Staten Island Secede!" by Ryan McMaken: https://Mises.org/RR_150_A [see below - OB]




Let Staten Island Secede!
https://mises.org/wire/let-staten-island-secede
by Ryan McMaken | 04 September 2023

Homeless foreign nationals (i.e., "illegal aliens") began arriving last week at a makeshift shelter in a Staten Island neighborhood. The arrivals come after New York City Mayor Eric Adams decided that a shuttered Catholic school on Staten Island would be used to house some of the more than 100,000 migrants who have arrived in New York City since the spring of 2022.

Staten Islanders, however, were given no veto and no role in determining the location of the shelter or what policies might be implemented there. As a result, hundreds of protestors this week assembled to express their opposition to the plan which was apparently hatched in secret and only revealed to Staten Island residents when the plan was already fait accompli. As the New York Post reported this week, "Local GOP state Assemblyman Michael Tannousis told The Post the area was 'blindsided' by the new shelter, leading to stronger opposition. 'I found out about this location when it was already out in the newspaper,' he said, adding the city previously denied to him they were going to house migrants there."

It's easy to see why the policymakers who run New York City haven't bothered to ask neighborhood representatives if they want a migrant shelter in their neighborhood. The residents of Staten Island, who tend to lean more politically conservative than other in other regions of the city, are easily outnumbered by hardline social-democrat residents of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and other boroughs. When it comes to city-wide politics, in other words, Staten Islanders don't matter, so the city government in Manhattan does what it wants with Staten Island's resources, and to Staten Island's residents.

How one feels about migrants, however, is irrelevant in answering the question of whether or not the half-million residents of Staten Island ought to be allowed self-determination in matters that clearly and deeply affect matters in their own neighborhoods and businesses. The New York Post reports:

Staten Islanders are renewing calls for a breakaway from the Big Apple — with Mayor Eric Adams’ controversial call to bus migrants to a local shuttered Catholic school proving to be the latest breaking point.

One local pol even has an idea for the independent borough’s new slogan: “Nonsicut tu quoque,” City Councilman Joe Borelli told The Post.

It roughly translates to, “We don’t like you either.”

Staten Island has always been an odd fit within the five boroughs, sitting on the outskirts of New York City with a predominantly conservative Republican population that butts heads with the rest of the city.

Unfortunately, the borough faces many uphill challenges in seceding. Both the NYC City Council and the state legislature would need to approve the move.

The Post continues:

According to locals, now is the time.

“Let’s do it!” said resident Joseph Milkie, 41. “We should get a bigger percentage of the Verrazano tolls to subsidize what it costs us to break away. What the city is doing to our neighborhood stinks.”

Anthony Antico, a 56-year-old contractor and lifelong Staten Islander, said he’s behind secession “100%.”

“Our values do not line up with the other boroughs,” Antico said Wednesday. “We do not believe in woke politics. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.”

This isn't the first time Staten Islanders have seriously talked about secession. As (Queens resident) Gregory Bresiger reminded mises.org readers in 2021, Staten Islanders in 1993 voted to secede from the city:

In 1993, they voted about two-to-one in a nonbinding referendum to secede and become the independent city of Staten Island. The measure was sent to the state legislature. But the referendum was later invalidated. Staten Island advocates hadn’t received “a home rule” approval message from the New York City Council.

In other words, the democracy-loving overlords of New York City decided that the lopsided vote in favor of separation would not be honored because of a technicality. It turns out majority-rule, which we're so often told is the cornerstone of government legitimacy, doesn't matter at all when the majority doesn't agree with the elites.

The outcome, of course, should surprise no one. As with so many cities, the more suburban, more crime-free parts of the city serve as low-maintenance areas of the city that also generate tax revenue that are useful to the ruling class in Manhattan. If we add to this the typical control-freakism harbored by most policymakers, it is easy to see why few in New York City's government have any intention of ever letting Staten Islanders rule themselves. There is also the contempt with which the urban elite generally regards their "constituents." Bresiger continues:

Ultimately, Staten Island and some other overtaxed New Yorkers in this mismanaged sprawling city hate being governed by a Manhattan ruling class that often scorns and misunderstands “outer borough” residents. (i.e., those not living in Manhattan). This Manhattan ruling class quietly regards most of us as bunch of Guidos, Archie Bunkers, or local Babbitts. We are the New York City version of “deplorables.”

For reasonable people not committed to exploiting the business owners and residents of Staten Island, the right to secession in this case should be abundantly clear. There is absolutely no respectable political "principle" which tells us that Staten Islanders must remain part of New York City, or even New York State. With nearly 500,000 residents, there is no reason why that's "too small." It's hard to imagine what criteria renders this population insufficiently large for statehood when numerous US states in the mid-twentieth century (i.e., Vermont, New Hampshire, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah Nevada) had populations below 500,000. We might also note that Staten Island has a relatively high median household income. Were Staten Island to become its own state, it would have a population about 100,000 people smaller than the next smallest state, Wyoming. Yet, Staten Island's median household income (about $80,000) is 30 percent higher than that of Wyoming—which is itself a middle-income US state. Nor would newly erected state borders mean much of anything to commuters. Hundreds of thousands of people currently commute into New York City across state lines every day.

That Staten Island secession is even controversial at all should strike us as curious. Granting the people of Staten Island their own city or state presents no "problematic" issues related to human rights, international relations, or basic justice. Even if there were reason for "concern" in these areas, that still would not invalidate the right of self-determination long denied to Staten Islanders.

[Read More: "The Right of Self-Determination" by Ludwig von Mises]

Yet, we groan under the boot of an American ruling class that reflexively favors centralization and rule by a technocratic, national elite. If Staten Island is allowed secede, it is feared that might open up countless similar demands for self-determination across the nation. Clearly, that does not fit into the current regime's plan, and they aim to make sure the idea of secession doesn't go anywhere, ever. For the elites, the current status quo works quite well and they want to keep it that way.
 
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https://twitter.com/mises_media/status/1754588872359526624
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Will a National Divorce Lead to More Individual Liberty?
https://odysee.com/@mises:1/will-a-national-divorce-lead-to-more:4
{Mises Media | 05 February 2024}

Ryan McMaken debates Jonathan Casey at LibertyCon. Recorded in Washington, DC, on 4 February 2024.

Ryan McMaken (https://Mises.org/McMaken) is executive editor at the Mises Institute and co-hosts the Radio Rothbard podcast (https://Mises.org/RothPod) and War, Economy, and State podcast (https://Mises.org/WES).

Jonathan Casey is a small business owner based in Dallas, Texas. He is the Chair of the Libertarian Party Classical Liberal Caucus, and founder of Project Liberal.

Students For Liberty’s LibertyCon is the largest international pro-liberty gathering in the world. For more information, visit https://LibertyCon.com

 
Responding to James Lindsay's Critique of "National Divorce"
https://odysee.com/@mises:1/responding-to-james-lindsay's-critique:6
{Mises Media | 09 February 2024}

Bob goes solo to give a point-by-point rebuttal to James Lindsay's recent essay arguing that "national divorce means national suicide." Bob argues that James employs inconsistent claims and ignores the tremendous economic boon to an independent Texas.

James Lindsay's Article "National Divorce is National Suicide": https://Mises.org/HAP434a

Bob's Book "Common Sense: The Case for an Independent Texas": https://Mises.org/HAP434b

AntiWar.com Article on Gaza: https://Mises.org/HAP434c

Scott Horton's Interview with Arnon Soffer: https://Mises.org/HAP434d

 
Map Shows States Most Likely to Secede
https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-states-most-likely-secede-1870679
{James Bickerton | 16 February 2024}

Twenty-three percent of Americans would support the state they live in seceding from the United States and becoming an independent country, according to a new survey of 35,000 U.S. adults conducted by YouGov.

The poll found sharp divides in support for independence by state, from 36 percent in Alaska [see this post - OB] and 31 percent in Texas to just 13 percent for Minnesota. In general, it was the larger and/or more populated states that were the most likely to support secession, along with those possessing a particularly strong regional identity.

The idea of states leaving the American union has attracted substantial attention in recent months amid near unprecedented tensions between Democrats and Republicans, which surged following the 2020 presidential election. In February 2023, House Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia sparked controversy and debate by calling for a "national divorce" between "red states and blue states."

The YouGov survey found that 23 percent of adults want their state to become independent, with 51 percent opposed and 27 percent unsure. The poll was conducted between February 2 and 5.

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After Alaska and Texas the state most inclined toward secession was California, where it was backed by 29 percent of the adult population.

That was followed by New York and Oklahoma, each at 28 percent, then Nebraska, West Virginia and Georgia which each had 25 percent support for independence. In Florida, Indiana, Montana and Washington, 24 percent of the population would back secession.

Following Minnesota the most pro-Union states were Ohio, Massachusetts and Rhode Island, which each had just 14 percent of the adult population backing independence. These were followed by New Hampshire, Michigan, Wisconsin and Maryland with 15 percent each, then New Jersey, Missouri, Iowa and Utah at 16 percent.

Results for Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota and South Dakota and the District of Columbia were excluded as they received less than 100 responses each, which YouGov judged too low to be of use.

On a national level, there was a noticeable difference between self-identifying Republicans and Democrats in support for their state leaving the Union, with support from 29 percent of Republicans and 21 percent of Democrats. By contrast, 60 percent of Democrats said they would oppose their state becoming independent along with 46 percent of Republicans.

Among U.S. adults, 26 percent believe the Constitution gives states "a right to secede," with 35 percent disagreeing and 39 percent unsure. Among Republicans, support for the statement rises to 33 percent while it falls to 26 percent for Democrats.

In December, the pro-independence Texas Nationalist Movement handed a nearly 140,000-strong petition to the state's Republican party, calling for a referendum on secession, though it was rejected by the GOP, which concluded that many of the signatures were invalid.

A Redfield & Wilton Strategies poll of 814 eligible Texan voters, conducted between February 1 and 3 for Newsweek, found that 23 percent would vote for independence if asked "should Texas be a state within the United States or should Texas be an independent country?" with 67 percent actively opposed.

"In independence referendums, you often see that those who want to secede win over the campaign," Matt Qvortrup, a political scientist who specializes in independence movements and wrote I Want to Break Free: A Practical Guide to Making a New Country, told Newsweek. In Scotland, the SNP (the Scottish National Party) came from 29 percent at the beginning of the campaign and ended at 45 percent.

"In Catalonia, Quebec, and in Scotland, support for independence was in the 20s when the issue was first discussed. This has in all cases moved within touching distance of independence."

Separately a Republican representative in New Hampshire introduced a bill to the state Legislature calling on the state to declare independence if U.S. national debt exceeds $40 trillion, with it currently standing at $34 trillion.
 
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Alaska Secession Calls Grow as More Than a Third Want State to Leave US
https://www.newsweek.com/alaska-secession-calls-grow-leave-us-1870746
{James Bickerton | 16 February 2024}

Some 36 percent of Alaska residents would support the state breaking away from the United States and becoming a fully independent nation, according to a new poll.

The result made Alaskans the most likely to support their state seceding from the Union, with the result substantially above the national average of 23 percent. The survey of 35,307 U.S. adults was conducted by YouGov between February 2 and 5. Those questioned were asked whether they would "support your state seceding from the U.S.?"

The integrity of the U.S. has been the subject of intense debate amidst aggressive political partisanship, which saw the 2020 presidential election result contested by the losing candidate for the first time in modern American history.

In February 2023, House Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested there could be a"national divorce" between Republican and Democratic states resulting in almost all powers stripped from the federal government and devolved to the state level.

The YouGov survey [see this post - OB] found that across the U.S., 23 percent of adult Americans would back their state leaving the American Union, versus 51 percent who would be actively opposed and 27 percent unsure. Notably, the result differed substantially by party, with 29 percent of Republicans wanting the state they lived in to become independent against 46 percent opposed. For Democrats, just 21 percent said they would back their state leaving the U.S., with 51 percent actively opposed.

After Alaska, the states with the highest proportion of adults supporting independence were Texas at 31 percent, followed by California at 29 percent, and New York and Oklahoma each at 28 percent. By contrast, just 13 percent of those living in Minnesota wanted the state to secede from the U.S., along with 14 percent each of those living in Ohio, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island.

The Alaskan Independence Party (AIP) was founded in the 1970s to campaign for a referendum on the state becoming fully independent and became a recognized political party under state regulations in 1984. It received its strongest electoral performance in the 1994 Alaska gubernatorial election, when it polled 13 percent of the vote coming a clear third behind the Republicans at 40.8 percent and the Democrats at 41.1 percent, though this was very much a high watermark and the party received less than one percent of the vote in the 2002 and 2006 gubernatorial elections.

Along with a referendum, the party advocates the abolition of all property and income taxes, supports "all efforts to curtail or eradicate abortion, euthanasia and infanticide" and opposes "the borrowing of money by government for any purposes other than for capital improvements."

Earlier this month, Newsweek published an exclusive survey of 814 eligible voters in Texas, conducted by Redfield & Wilton Strategies online between February 1 and 3, which asked participants: "Should Texas be a state within the United States or should Texas be an independent country?"

In response, 23 percent opted for "an independent country," and 67 percent wanted to remain part of the U.S., with the remaining 10 percent unsure.

Secessionist campaigners have also been active in New Hampshire where a Republican legislature introduced a bill to the state House of Representatives calling on the state to become fully independent should U.S. debt reach $40 trillion, up from the current level of $34 trillion.

Speaking to Newsweek, Carla Gericke, acting president of the Foundation for New Hampshire Independence, described secession from the United States as "an idea whose time has come and a reflection of the frustration everyone on the political spectrum is feeling."
 
Ryan McMaken on the History and Benefits of Secession
https://odysee.com/@mises:1/ryan-mcmaken-on-the-history-and-benefits:c
{Mises Media | 23 March 2024}

Ryan McMaken recently gave a talk at Oklahoma State outlining the history of secessions and making the case that they promote liberty and peace. He joins Bob to discuss his major themes and to address common objections.

Ryan's Talk at Oklahoma State: https://Mises.org/HAP440a [see below - OB]

Breaking Away: The Case for Secession, Radical Decentralization, and Smaller Polities: https://Mises.org/HAP440b

Chapters:

00:00 - Free Book
00:28 - Introduction
03:30 - Secession and the Constitution
08:48 - Why do People Like Democracy so Much?
14:08 - Voting and Activism vs. Secession
23:43 - Human Action Conference Raffle
22:41 - Devil's Advocate: Colonialism is for your Own Good
28:51 - Ukrainian Independence
33:23 - Preventing Widespread Oppression
44:54 - Nuclear Weapons and Secession




The Case for Secession: How Breaking Away Maximizes Liberty | Ryan McMaken
https://odysee.com/@mises:1/the-case-for-secession-how-breaking-away:f
{Mises Media | 19 March 2024}}

Presented to the Free Enterprise Society at Oklahoma State University on March 13, 2024.

Ryan McMaken is executive editor at the Mises Institute. He is a cohost of the Radio Rothbard podcast and the War, Economy, and State podcast, and is the author of Breaking Away: The Case for Secession, Radical Decentralization, and Smaller Polities and Commie Cowboys: The Bourgeoisie and the Nation-State in the Western Genre.

The Free Enterprise Society (FES) is sponsored by the Institute for the Study of Free Enterprise at Oklahoma State University: https://fe.okstate.edu/fes

 
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