National debt hits $21 trillion

[Anti Federalist]

D - Secede!

Quite right, forgot about that.

 

[Zippyjuan]

LOL - What in the world gave you that idea?

That said, who cares?

At $21 trillion, this is now purely academic, this debt will never be paid, it can't be paid.

There are only three options:

A - Kick the can down the road indefinitely, or at least until that becomes impossible, which then leaves only options B and C.

B - Default and tell all our debt holders to pound sand.

C - War.

To actually pay it off you would have to run a $1 trillion surplus for 25- 30 years in a row. Even "balanced budget amendment" Republicans seem to have abandoned any ideas of even reducing government spending.

 

[DamianTV]

Why is it that when politicians and Zippy talk about paying off a government debt, the default go-to answer is not to pay off that debt with existing cash, but Credit from someone else? I'll just use this credit card to make a payment on that credit card.

Does this sound like a Sustainable Financial Policy?

 

[Zippyjuan]

Why is it that when politicians and Zippy talk about paying off a government debt, the default go-to answer is not to pay off that debt with existing cash, but Credit from someone else? I'll just use this credit card to make a payment on that credit card.

Does this sound like a Sustainable Financial Policy?

I entertain no delusions that it might actually one day be paid off.

 

[DamianTV]

I entertain no delusions that it might actually one day be paid off.

How about entertaining the idea of getting rid of the Central Bank?

 

[Zippyjuan]

How about entertaining the idea of getting rid of the Central Bank?

That doesn't solve anything. They can still overspend as long as they are allowed to borrow.

 

[acptulsa]

That doesn't solve anything. They can still overspend as long as they are allowed to borrow.

But nobody--nobody--is as motivated to lend as the banks who get to make money the old fashioned way--by printing it.

And no lenders, no borrowing. Simple equation, no?

 

[r3volution 3.0]

That's true, but at this point the policies would be pretty drastic. We're borrowing a trillion a year now. If we normalized rates that would add another trillion of interest and I'm guessing the crash in the markets could cause a huge loss of tax revenue. So I'm guessing we'd have to cut our spending in half from 4 to 2 trillion to run a balanced budget with "normalized" monetary policy.

On the other hand I always wonder if we just froze spending if we could "sneak" out of it gradually. At this point I don't think we could.

The regulatory burden is almost as large as the fiscal burden.

I think it might still be possible to "sneak" out of it, through extremely drastic deregulation, coupled with only modest/gradual spending cuts.

That should be any easier sell, but still politically impossible for the foreseeable future.

As we've discussed before in the context of South Africa, the political system will have to change before there can be any real economic reform.

 

[Madison320]

The regulatory burden is almost as large as the fiscal burden.

I think it might still be possible to "sneak" out of it, through extremely drastic deregulation, coupled with only modest/gradual spending cuts.

That should be any easier sell, but still politically impossible for the foreseeable future.

As we've discussed before in the context of South Africa, the political system will have to change before there can be any real economic reform.

I think at some point if we tried to sneak out of it we'd have a collapse, it just doesn't seem mathematically possible that we could come down from the 15-20 trillion in stimulus since the housing crisis without some sort of a crash. Unless somehow optimism from investors could counter that.

Anyway like you said, there's no chance of that happening. I work in the defense industry and pretty much everyone except me thinks we need to increase defense spending, even if it means compromising on other stuff. Everybody wants free stuff.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

LOL - What in the world gave you that idea?

That said, who cares?

At $21 trillion, this is now purely academic, this debt will never be paid, it can't be paid.

There are only three options:

A - Kick the can down the road indefinitely, or at least until that becomes impossible, which then leaves only options B and C.

B - Default and tell all our debt holders to pound sand.

C - War.

Got that idea from tea party manifesto.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

GOP led small gummit is alive n kicking:


TRUMP SIGNS MONSTER SPENDING BILL...
BUDGET BLOWS INTO OBLIVION...
VOWS 'NEVER AGAIN'...
Congress Gives Self Bonus!
Planned Parenthood Gets $500 Million...
Lawmakers Had 1,000 Minutes to Read 2,232 Pages...
FLASHBACK: Ryan, McConnell LIE About Funding Border Wall...
Pelosi, Schumer declare victory...


[SIZE=+7]

FAKE VETO [/SIZE]


[SIZE=+7]

[/SIZE]

 

[AZJoe]

Bloated US Spending Bill Mostly for Militarism and Warmaking

The discretionary spending bill Trump signed into law on Friday excludes hundreds of billions of dollars in military related spending, enormous classified amounts for CIA, NSA and other intelligence community black budgets, along with add-on appropriations to come for US operations in multiple war theaters.

America spends over $1.5 trillion annually for militarism, warmaking, maintaining its global empire of bases, highly classified intelligence operations, and related expenses, most of it over and above annual appropriation bills. …

$20 trillion in national debt was reached last September 8 – $21 trillion 186 days later … “you haven’t seen nothin’ yet.” …

Most discretionary US federal spending goes for militarism, raping and destroying countries, corporate welfare including rewarding banksters, and police state harshness, the nation militarized against its own people …

Stockman believes massive annual deficits are as sure as daily sunrises, the “nation’s fiscal accounts…in free fall…for as far as the eye can see into the future” – a slow-motion “fiscal calamity…unfolding.” …

 

[enhanced_deficit]

From Drudge:

[SIZE=+7]FEDERAL DEBT PRIMED TO EXPLODE...

Trillion-dollar deficits come roaring back...[/SIZE]

The GOP tax plan means short-term gains for the economy, but federal debt is primed to explode, CBO analysis says

• The Congressional Budget Office forecast that the new tax law will generate an average of 0.7 percent growth over the decade and create 1.1 million jobs.
• However, larger budget deficits would crowd out private investment in later years, dampening economic growth.
• As a result, the CBO estimated the cumulative deficit over the next decade will be $1.6 trillion larger than previously projected. By 2028, the national debt would total 96 percent of GDP.

Ylan Mui | @ylanmui

Published 5 Hours Ago Updated 1 Hour Ago

CBO: Tax law will add $1.9 trillion to deficit over a decade 3 Hours Ago | 02:15

The Republican overhaul of America's tax code and increased government spending are projected to boost economic growth to 3.3 percent this year but push the national debt to nearly the same size as gross domestic product by 2028, according to government data released Monday.

The Congressional Budget Office forecast that the new tax law will generate an average of 0.7 percent growth over the decade and create 1.1 million jobs. It also predicted the two-year federal spending deal would increase GDP by 0.3 percent this year and 0.6 percent in 2019. However, larger budget deficits would crowd out private investment in later years, dampening economic growth.
As a result, the CBO estimated the cumulative deficit over the next decade will be $1.6 trillion larger than previously projected. By 2028, the national debt would total 96 percent of GDP.
"Such high and rising debt would have serious negative consequences for the budget and for the nation," the CBO report said.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Too many evolutions going on lately:


Former Speaker John Boehner: Deficit will be 'No. 1 issue' in six months

• John Boehner warned that the normalization of interest rates would have a whipsaw effect on the deficit.
• The former speaker supported GOP tax cuts and blamed a lack of entitlement reform for the expanding deficit.
• He said failure to balance the budget had to be Paul Ryan's "biggest disappointment."

James Thorne Published 23 Hours Ago

Former Speaker John Boehner: Deficit will be 'number one issue' in six months 20 Hours Ago | 01:51



Former Speaker of the House John Boehner said that the U.S. government deficit would become the No. 1 political issue in about six months.
"As interest rates continue to get to a normal level, it's going to have a huge whipsaw effect on the deficit," Boehner told CNBC's "Squawk on the Street."
Boehner voiced support for the tax cuts but lamented President Donald Trump's decision to maintain spending on entitlements. "I have to believe it's Paul Ryan's biggest disappointment as speaker," he said. "Paul Ryan had a plan to balance the budget over 10 years."

 

[TheCount]

But nobody--nobody--is as motivated to lend as the banks who get to make money the old fashioned way--by printing it.

Government is at least as motivated, if not more motivated.

There's a business model for banking without printing money.

There is no business model for either major political party that does not involve printing money.

 

[TheCount]

Bump.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

H/T B4L:

Government Debt Explosion!...$52,000 per SECOND!...Is the END near?

 

[enhanced_deficit]

US budget deficit expands to $779 billion in fiscal 2018 as spending surges

• The federal budget deficit rose 17 percent in fiscal 2018, according to the Trump administration.
• Spending jumped, and revenue only increased slightly following the GOP tax cuts.
• The Trump administration has pushed for dramatic budget cuts at several agencies and supported massive increases in military spending.

Jacob Pramuk
Published 2 Hours Ago Updated 1 Hour Ago

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/15/us-...illion-in-fiscal-2018-as-spending-surges.html

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Since this thread was started, the debt has increased by $597 billion.

That's equivalent to $1,037 billion per year.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Since this thread was started, the debt has increased by $597 billion.

That's equivalent to $1,037 billion per year.

Wow.
But this out of control big gummit spending spree will come to end once small gummit GOP takes charge of White House and Congress.