NASA Issues

I could see a voluntary income tax form that would list governmental projects and people could voluntarily fund them... but the private foundation would be the best way to go... I would be an associate! Especially with the money I save from not paying income tax.
 
Check out the goofy space treaties then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

They may not claim ownership, but they certainly attempt to set regulations/laws...

Laugh--> their face

They only have authority if you give them authority. Otherwise... it is very laughable... and as laughable as you are I writing regulations for space commerce and expecting everyone to abide by them as if it were "law".
 
They only have authority if you give them authority. Otherwise... it is very laughable... and as laughable as you are I writing regulations for space commerce and expecting everyone to abide by them as if it were "law".

Depends. If there's only one planetary system in space, then who says an individual can't be held liable for murdering someone in space by the government? I bet there wouldn't be any separate "Law of the Sea" if there wasn't individual nations in the world. It would all fall under one jurisdiction. It really depends on how the justice system works.
 
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Depends. If there's only one planetary system in space, then who says an individual can't be held liable for murdering someone in space by the government? I bet there wouldn't be any separate "Law of the Sea" if there wasn't individual nations in the world. It would all fall under one jurisdiction. It really depends on how the justice system works.

It really depends on who you surrender your sovereignty to.
 
It really depends on who you surrender your sovereignty to.

hmm. I'm telling you, if there's only one planetary system in a universe, what makes you think they can't claim jurisdiction to it? It really depends on the laws, how the justice system works and on logistics.
 
Well first of all there are BILLIONS of planetary systems in the Universe, and secondly you can claim whatever the hell you want but laws and claims are only good if they can be backed up. Thus you can do whatever you want as long as you can defend yourself.
 
Well first of all there are BILLIONS of planetary systems in the Universe, and secondly you can claim whatever the hell you want but laws and claims are only good if they can be backed up. Thus you can do whatever you want as long as you can defend yourself.

That's why I brought up logistics. Government cannot enforce laws if it's not around.
 
Thing about laws in space such as murder... it's not like they can come and arrest you. The most feasible thing would be to launch a missle and kill you. That would still cost millions of dollars.
 
The moon is a great source of Helium-3. with private competition, a cheaper way of extracting it and returning it could be developed.
.

Bush wanted to build a pipeline, and when told that wasn't feasible suggested hiring Pakistani truckers as they will drive anywhere cheap. He got lost drunk driving after a frat party and ended up there. The only souvenir he brought back was the vacuum betwixt his ears.

:D
'Randy
 
In my opinion, NASA is simply yet another way to funnel tax money to the aerospace industry.

If space exploration has some productive value, then it would be taken up by free enterprise.

Those who are just dying to discover what comets are made of can find a way to finance it with THEIR money, not mine.
 
Bush wanted to build a pipeline, and when told that wasn't feasible suggested hiring Pakistani truckers as they will drive anywhere cheap. He got lost drunk driving after a frat party and ended up there. The only souvenir he brought back was the vacuum betwixt his ears.

:D
'Randy

I'm not sure Bush has returned from that trip just yet....
 
LFOD, ever used a cell phone? Private industry cant afford to throw billions at projects without promise of profit thus new technologies will be slow in coming. If you want new things like cell phones, satellite tv, or frankly thousands of other innovations to ever come about you need some sort of system to throw money at fringe ideas that arent yet profitable. This cannot at least currently be done in the private space sector. As soon as it can I agree with you, but right now its just too expensive and the benefits from it are very worth the cost. Try and do some cost comparisons on how much the nasa budget it and how much it achieves. It is very beneficial to you whether you agree with it or not and a much more efficient use of money than any other government program even in the health sector. Just look up the statistics. I personally believe its by far worth the .001 percent of the federal budget or whatever that it takes up. Far more important than any other expenditure really. Realize how tiny our Earth is compared to the vastness of space... Im done with this, if you wish to be informed of the importance you can easily do so.
 
LFOD, ever used a cell phone? Private industry cant afford to throw billions at projects without promise of profit thus new technologies will be slow in coming. If you want new things like cell phones, satellite tv, or frankly thousands of other innovations to ever come about you need some sort of system to throw money at fringe ideas that arent yet profitable. This cannot at least currently be done in the private space sector. As soon as it can I agree with you, but right now its just too expensive and the benefits from it are very worth the cost. Try and do some cost comparisons on how much the nasa budget it and how much it achieves. It is very beneficial to you whether you agree with it or not and a much more efficient use of money than any other government program even in the health sector. Just look up the statistics. I personally believe its by far worth the .001 percent of the federal budget or whatever that it takes up. Far more important than any other expenditure really. Realize how tiny our Earth is compared to the vastness of space... Im done with this, if you wish to be informed of the importance you can easily do so.

A private foundation of wealthy benefactors could fund non-profit space ventures. these people would do it just to have there name on the spacecraft.
Virgin Atlantic is invested money into a space venture that isn't showing signs of immediate profit returns... its about image.
You can have an association of people like us who like this stuff who donate to the above mention foundation and its governing board of benefactors to do non-profit space ventures.
If there is enough interest, then it will happen.
 
Yes it can work and i am not disputing that, I am merely saying that the private infastructure to replace nasa does not currently exist. Thus to remove NASA entirely without the private industry to replace it fully funded would be to vastly slow advancement of technologies and knowledge which is to the benefit of humanity as a whole. Everyone is at least indirectly effected by this advancement in knowledge and it is important to maintain pace in its pursuit. The reason for exploration is to discover targets for private industry, and methods for them to use in their endeavors. No startup can afford to spend millions of dollars just to scope out what COULD be out there, or experiment with better ways of doing so without a promise for profit. Once industry is established this can be accomplished with R&D profits. However established space industry does not currently exist so government funding can fill this gap providing methods for private industry to use in order to extablish private industry as profitable.

Other things such as the protection of Earth from possible asteroid/comet strikes is something which is needed yet not profitable or feasible to be handled by private industry.

Virgin Atlantic created Virgin Galactic because they intend to make tons of money from rich people who wish to experience a sub-orbital thrill ride. This is so far from a "space" venture it shouldn't even be considered close. The difference between going to orbital and beyond and going to suborbital is like the difference between jumping and going into suborbital space. It is much much more difficult. It will happen, however space itself will have to have a profitable draw for anything farther into space to ever happen. In other words we will have to have orbital stations, asteroid mining or some combination of profitable/fun activities in space to make the industry something other than a thrill ride for the rich.

I do agree with the statement that "If there is enough interest, it will happen" however due to a lack of education and a sense that anything other than looking at the stars is "sci-fi" it won't unless we not only improve science and math education as well as get people interested which is done by showing people there is always more to be discovered.

To conclude this LOONG post: If I stop having to pay income tax, a large portion will definately be going to such a fund. Hopefully alot of other people will do the same. How about you?
 
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I think that the space tourism stuff thats being pursued by Virgin Galactic and some other companies will realize the profits needed to entice future investors to finance exploration of the moon and mars. Virgin has already lined up pledges from "early adopters" that are willing to pay a ridiculous amount of money for a very short low orbit trip. Future exploration will probably end up piggy backing on tourism.
The thing is, none of use really know the best one way to do it. A free market for space will allow numerous different ways to be tried and worked out. The best options will rise to the top. Space tourism will push things one way, asteroid mining will push things another way.

Whatever gets me a trip to space, thats all I want. Just once damn it. :)
 
Oh good, my favourite subject. Eight pages already so I'll first write down my thoughts on the matter before I read all the messages.

-There's nothing I love more than space and my goal in life is to get to somewhere like Venus (the cloudtops where it's the same temperature as Earth, so think Cloud City from Ep. 5) or Ceres before I die. I'm Canadian and my support of a party is largely based on their vision for space development. In the US though it seems to be different because the US has been overextending itself for a long while and isn't in quite a favorable situation.

I think there's a place for NASA at present and they only take up 0.75% of the budget, and RP has talked about a consensus being needed when he becomes president, since he can't just run in there with an executive order and start shutting things down. The war in Iraq for example costs about the same per month as NASA uses in a year, so shutting that down right away is crucial. The debate over NASA can come later.

Luckily there are a lot of really good private space companies that are up and coming, such as Bigelow Airspace, SpaceX, Armadillo Airspace, JP Aerospace, and so on. They're not quite ready for the big time though. Once they are you can bet that they'll start stealing the show by themselves, so really the onus is on them. However, NASA is:

-a good thing, and
-much too small to worry about at present. Space is not a waste of money. The most obvious examples are probes that tell us where malaria is most likely to spread, letting poor countries concentrate their minimal extermination budgets on areas where people are most likely to be affected, technological spinoffs, and:

The most important reason of all:

-The ability to leave the planet, because eventually we're going to need to and as long as we're concentrated in one area we're eventually going to die there. This isn't me talking, it's Stephen Hawking.

But I see no reason why a person that likes space as much as I do shouldn't support Ron Paul. Actually living within your budget and staying out of the affairs of others creates spinoffs the likes of which you can't imagine. How many potential Hawkings have been killed or maimed in Iraq for example, and how many people have been blindsided by the over-exaggerated War against Terror to the extent that they've lost their ability to think for themselves and therefore about important and peaceful subjects like space development?

Okay, time to read the rest of the thread now.
 
They underestimate how many Nerds there really are.....

nerd.jpg
 
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