My Sincere Hope For Obama

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Oh for the love of shit-eating will you people just stop... The founders of libertarian values, from Jefferson, to Rand, to Mises and up.... were INFIDELS, and all advocated economic restraint and anti-monopolies in some fashion.

Here we are on our website and who is feeding said to us..? No, we will not stop defending ourselves on our home turf. And no one completely disavows any restraint. Which is why we won't support Obama, no matter how hard you troll. He seems to know no restraint on many fronts, including spending.
 
Hmmmm....I'll have to go back and look to see where we disagree on the separation of Church and State. I believe the first amendment actually means what it says and that the 14th amendment applies first amendment protections to the state instead of just to the federal government.

I'm sure we aren't that much different and forums lend themselves to hyperbole. You want to vote for Obama? That's your decision. I don't hate Obama supporters. I'm married to one after all. ;) I just have serious problems with him on policy.

It seems you're right that the Homegrown Terrorism act has not passed yet. I know it's come up for a vote based on Ron Paul's speech on the matter.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles...ation-and-homegrown-terrorism-prevention-act/

It seems it has been referred back to committee.

You voted for Harry Browne in 2000? I voted for Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. I didn't regret the Al Gore vote until recently. I regretted the Kerry vote within a week when it became obvious that Kerry wasn't going to buck his cousin and skull and bones buddy Bush and "count every vote". When the third party "spoiler" candidates demanded a recount (which proved voter fraud by the way) I promised myself I'd never ignore other options again just to go with the lesser of two evils. Now with Al Gore running around telling everyone we have to "Do as I say, not as I do" on global warming (a complete farce) I don't feel like we would have been much better off had he won. We had an illegal war in Iraq? Well Clinton had an illegal war in Kosovo. The more things change the more things stay the same. Go ahead and vote for Obama. Just do it with eyes wide open.

Regards,

John M. Drake
 
All of this is a bunch of crap, what we're arguing now is this:

#1-Not so appealing, unsubstantial candidate vs. 2-3rd party unlikely winner

Who gives us candidate #1? What makes it reality that 3rd parties can't win?

WE DO. Specifically people who think and decide on who to vote for like Kade and Quantized, sadly they are the majority. And this majority knows no party lines, both Dems and Republicans operate this way.

People who don't vote their conscience or their principles, people who look around at everyone around them and say "who are they voting for?" I'll only consider the ones that most other people are voting for, despite the fact that none of those people have done their homework either.

Barack gives Pandora's box a worse rap, Pandora's box has been open for a long time, and people are viewing BO as that last little slip of paper in the box, when he has done nothing to earn it, but many things to question that message of "hope."

These same people also make third parties non-viable. They are not loyal, they are not risk-takers, they do not think outside the box that the MSM has presented them.

The media has presented you your choices, and you, rather than think for yourself, say "okay!" The media has presented BO on a platter and you are consuming it so fast you don't even taste it.

"I'm not throwing away my vote." Bullshit. If you don't vote for someone who is good for your country and reflects your principles, then you are throwing your vote into a vast pit. Especially during the primaries.

You guys can obviously vote for whomever you want, but you're not convincing me or any other true supporter to vote for BO. He is a socialist, and with impending economic collapse on the way, that will be catastrophic to every regular individual. The rich will stay rich, the poor will stay poor and trapped in the welfare cycle and us in the middle will become poorer and poorer, supporting the welfare state.

Seriously--where do you guys think the money for all this spending will come from? I doubt Bill Gates and Warren Buffet will be the ones paying for it, they never do.
 
Here we are on our website and who is feeding said to us..? No, we will not stop defending ourselves on our home turf. And no one completely disavows any restraint. Which is why we won't support Obama, no matter how hard you troll. He seems to know no restraint on many fronts, including spending.

Exactly. If you boys haven't noticed, this is "ronpaulforums.com." I wouldn't expect to not be argued against if I went to BO's forums. Be sensible.
 
Exactly. If you boys haven't noticed, this is "ronpaulforums.com." I wouldn't expect to not be argued against if I went to BO's forums. Be sensible.


I think this dialog has been rather healthy. I think all of the people here are Ron Paul supporters and are open to finding a true candidate.

But it is a legitimate question. Who do I vote for in the general election, if Ron Paul is not an option?

And I think with 3 major MSM candidates still around, there's nothing wrong with having this discussion.

This is the "Other candidates" subforum after all, and these are questions many RP supporters have.

I would NOT call a ron paul supporter a traitor just because he or she is thinking about BO if it comes down to Mccain and BO.


For all the RP die-hards that want to write him in and work to get him as a 3rd party candidate. I hope they are working just as hard to get their local Ron Paul Republican into office. These RP Republicans have a VERY CHALLENGING and difficult hill to climb to take out the incumbent.

For states where the republican presidential primary is OVER, I would hope people are putting just as much effort into these local and state positions as they were for Ron Paul. Ron Paul needs help, this is the NEW RACE. We need VOTES against the patriot act and the homegrown terror bill and all these attacks on our civil liberties.

I've got news for you, ONE vote from Ron Paul against the Patriot act (or other similar acts) is not enough!

The local congressional races and senate races are now the REAL REVOLUTION. The success of the revolution depends on whether or not Ron Paul is still alone in Washington and it's politics as usual, OR IF HE'S SURROUNDED WITH A TEAM of dedicated constitutionalists!

The success of the revolution will not be judged by how many 1% or 6% 3rd party write ins their were for Ron Paul, but by HOW MANY ALLIES DO WE HAVE IN WASHINGTON!

And it doesn't take a majority, even a team of dedicated RP congressmen and women can make a difference and influence others who were leaning towards RP but afraid to be the only vote next to him. THIS IS WHAT CAN CHANGE WASHINGTON!

THIS IS THE REVOLUTION!

So sure, it's great to debate McCain/Obama/Hilary. One of them will be president, and who should get the vote, or who's the best 3rd party vote.

But I sure hope the real effort is getting as many Ron Paul republicans into office as possible! I hope that's where the hours are spent, getting their names' on the ballot, canvassing their local district, planning money bombs.

We can do it! YES WE CAN! :)
 
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not really matter, but he said "not PRACTICING Muslim"

He is just one of the talented speech givers which will do as they are told.

Who even cares if he is, or once was, a Muslim? That has nothing to do with his ability to run the country. And no, I don't think he'd run the country well at all - I'd never vote for him - but you should still show him some respect by not trying to negatively assert his religious upbringing/values.

You and another brought it up - you more subtly with your unnecessary insertion of his middle name.
 
I think this dialog has been rather healthy. I think all of the people here are Ron Paul supporters and are open to finding a true candidate.

But it is a legitimate question. Who do I vote for in the general election, if Ron Paul is not an option?

And I think with 3 major MSM candidates still around, there's nothing wrong with having this discussion.

This is the "Other candidates" subforum after all, and these are questions many RP supporters have.

I would NOT call a ron paul supporter a traitor just because he or she is thinking about BO if it comes down to Mccain and BO.


For all the RP die-hards that want to write him in and work to get him as a 3rd party candidate. I hope they are working just as hard to get their local Ron Paul Republican into office. These RP Republicans have a VERY CHALLENGING and difficult hill to climb to take out the incumbent.

For states where the republican presidential primary is OVER, I would hope people are putting just as much effort into these local and state positions as they were for Ron Paul. Ron Paul needs help, this is the NEW RACE. We need VOTES against the patriot act and the homegrown terror bill and all these attacks on our civil liberties.

I've got news for you, ONE vote from Ron Paul against the Patriot act (or other similar acts) is not enough!

The local congressional races and senate races are now the REAL REVOLUTION. The success of the revolution depends on whether or not Ron Paul is still alone in Washington and it's politics as usual, OR IF HE'S SURROUNDED WITH A TEAM of dedicated constitutionalists!

The success of the revolution will not be judged by how many 1% or 6% 3rd party write ins their were for Ron Paul, but by HOW MANY ALLIES DO WE HAVE IN WASHINGTON!

And it doesn't take a majority, even a team of dedicated RP congressmen and women can make a difference and influence others who were leaning towards RP but afraid to be the only vote next to him. THIS IS WHAT CAN CHANGE WASHINGTON!

THIS IS THE REVOLUTION!

So sure, it's great to debate McCain/Obama/Hilary. One of them will be president, and who should get the vote, or who's the best 3rd party vote.

But I sure hope the real effort is getting as many Ron Paul republicans into office as possible! I hope that's where the hours are spent, getting their names' on the ballot, canvassing their local district, planning money bombs.

We can do it! YES WE CAN! :)

WORD! Thank you for the post pal, esp "I would NOT call a ron paul supporter a traitor just because he or she is thinking about BO if it comes down to Mccain and BO." I have no qualms when people here say all sort of bad things about Obama. This is in large their prerogative as they pleased. None of my business. But it gets personal when people like me get labeled as a traitor because i have decided to vote for the lesser of evil.

You are right when you say "The success of the revolution will not be judged by how many 1% or 6% 3rd party write ins their were for Ron Paul, but by HOW MANY ALLIES DO WE HAVE IN WASHINGTON!" i seriously how many people here realise this. We cannot never win any future election if we do not establish a formidable force in washington. Like it or not, people like me who vote for the lesser of evil will always exists. To counter this formidable 'wrong' mindset, there is only one way. We need to be awaken to the root of the problem. Establish allies in washinton and be establish legitimacy. This is the prerequisite. Stop the BS blaming of the "vote for lesser evil" voters. They do nothing wrong. They vote for lesser of 'evil' because they love the country enough to not let a more 'evil' take the whitehouse.
 
WORD! Thank you for the post pal, esp "I would NOT call a ron paul supporter a traitor just because he or she is thinking about BO if it comes down to Mccain and BO." I have no qualms when people here say all sort of bad things about Obama. This is in large their prerogative as they pleased. None of my business. But it gets personal when people like me get labeled as a traitor because i have decided to vote for the lesser of evil.

You are right when you say "The success of the revolution will not be judged by how many 1% or 6% 3rd party write ins their were for Ron Paul, but by HOW MANY ALLIES DO WE HAVE IN WASHINGTON!" i seriously how many people here realise this. We cannot never win any future election if we do not establish a formidable force in washington. Like it or not, people like me who vote for the lesser of evil will always exists. To counter this formidable 'wrong' mindset, there is only one way. We need to be awaken to the root of the problem. Establish allies in washinton and be establish legitimacy. This is the prerequisite. Stop the BS blaming of the "vote for lesser evil" voters. They do nothing wrong. They vote for lesser of 'evil' because they love the country enough to not let a more 'evil' take the whitehouse.

I never once called you a traitor, I just suggested that if you want to promote Obama, the ronpaulforums are not exactly the most appropriate places to do it and it gets tiresome. Especially when it's obvious from looking at your posting history that all of your posts are about BO.

Obama is not a good option for Ron Paul supporters, even the ones who choose to go the "lesser of two evils route" and here's why I think that's the case: we need time to get other people like Sabrin, Terbolizard, Torchbearer, et al, into office. If BO gets in and we have a severe economic collapse from his spending, then we will hardly be able to support candidates financially. Perhaps it would cause a sea change and more people would understand what's going on, but a lot of people would suffer in the mean time.

The groups of people who would suffer include our nations elderly, our young, our poor, our military, the people of whatever country we're attacking/invading.

Isn't it insane to any of you that our country is invading other countries? And some of us are concerned about our next POTUS, when we Americans have essentially got no real choices amongst the frontrunners. They're all the same.

And I will NOT vote for them, NO WAY. I will NOT. All three of them are corrupt, evil and promise things they can not deliver. Liars and thieves. The whole lot of them.

You guys vote whatever way you want, do whatever you want. But you can never convince me that it is a good idea to vote for any of these psychopaths. No to Obama. No to McCain and No to Hillary.
 
I never once called you a traitor, I just suggested that if you want to promote Obama, the ronpaulforums are not exactly the most appropriate places to do it and it gets tiresome. Especially when it's obvious from looking at your posting history that all of your posts are about BO.

Obama is not a good option for Ron Paul supporters, even the ones who choose to go the "lesser of two evils route" and here's why I think that's the case: we need time to get other people like Sabrin, Terbolizard, Torchbearer, et al, into office. If BO gets in and we have a severe economic collapse from his spending, then we will hardly be able to support candidates financially. Perhaps it would cause a sea change and more people would understand what's going on, but a lot of people would suffer in the mean time.

The groups of people who would suffer include our nations elderly, our young, our poor, our military, the people of whatever country we're attacking/invading.

Isn't it insane to any of you that our country is invading other countries? And some of us are concerned about our next POTUS, when we Americans have essentially got no real choices amongst the frontrunners. They're all the same.

And I will NOT vote for them, NO WAY. I will NOT. All three of them are corrupt, evil and promise things they can not deliver. Liars and thieves. The whole lot of them.

You guys vote whatever way you want, do whatever you want. But you can never convince me that it is a good idea to vote for any of these psychopaths. No to Obama. No to McCain and No to Hillary.


QFT!
 
I never once called you a traitor, I just suggested that if you want to promote Obama, the ronpaulforums are not exactly the most appropriate places to do it and it gets tiresome. Especially when it's obvious from looking at your posting history that all of your posts are about BO.

Hey. talking to you is also tiresome esp trying to defend myself against your outright baseless accusations. i create a thread to question the plausibility of voting against McCain by voting for the democratic nominee. You accuse me of having an agenda. i create a thread to question if US have convincing intelligence of AlQeada in Pakisatan, would RP vote to strike, you again make that ridiculous comment that "your man obama will attack pakistan for you". You are the one who is fanning the forest fire. this is a forum. Tell me how these questions which i posed are illegitimate? Tell you what. i started as a Clinton supporter because i like her pro-science policy. then i learned about RP through the debates. i am sold with his messgae of liberty. then i learned more about other candidates. i am always open to the truth. As a scientist, i learned that if the facts does not tally with the theory, change the theory and not the facts. i apply the same pragmatism to undertsanding politics. i find no pleasure engaging in a discussion wtih you when all you do is making blanket statement like "obama will attack pakisatan" etc. Also, pertaining to 'voting for lesser evil' i do not need education on this. Safe it. i do realise that lesser evil voters would have to face shame and regret when their candidate they vote turn out contrary to expectation. But i am not one of those who attempt to delude myself that the politician i voted in office is a perfect candidate, in order to prevent painful cognitive dissonance. Yes, in your mind the wasted vote is the unprincipled lesser evil vote, but in reality a wasted vote is when you vote knowing your candidate will not win... you can say all you want to make you make you cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost by voting for principles.. but i do not cherish this kind of feel good thingy. To each his own. Thats what i say.



The groups of people who would suffer include our nations elderly, our young, our poor, our military, the people of whatever country we're attacking/invading.

Isn't it insane to any of you that our country is invading other countries? And some of us are concerned about our next POTUS, when we Americans have essentially got no real choices amongst the frontrunners. They're all the same.
.

"They are all the same" i hear this so many times. But please convinc"They are all the same"e me how they are all the same when even RP suggested in the debate they have much similarity and attract the same young crowd. Try convince me Obama is not anti-iraq war. i am open to what you have to say. i am not receptive to blanket statement like "They are all the same".
 
Try convince me Obama is not anti-iraq war. i am open to what you have to say. i am not receptive to blanket statement like "They are all the same".

He voted to fund the war. He COULD have voted not to and encouraged others to do the same. A LEADER who is against the war would have done that. No, he fell in lockstep to keep the war going.

And he voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act. Apparently he thinks our Constitution is just a God damned piece of paper, too.

Happy now?
 
He voted to fund the war. He COULD have voted not to and encouraged others to do the same. A LEADER who is against the war would have done that. No, he fell in lockstep to keep the war going.

And he voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act. Apparently he thinks our Constitution is just a God damned piece of paper, too.

Happy now?

Try refute the defence of the vote that it was a vote to support of the troops not the war. Obama reiterates numerous times that he is fundamentally oppose to the war and that he has always supports funding for US troops despite his consistent opposition to the war. But when you got yourself into a snake pit, there is only this few ways to get out of it. What he said,

"I have been very clear even as a candidate that, once we were in, that we were going to have some responsibility to make it work as best we could, and more importantly that our troops had the best resources they needed to get home safely," Obama, an Illinois Democrat, told reporters in a conference call. "So I don't think there is any contradiction there."

Patriot act? This is an excerpt of what obama said. Tell me what's wrong?

"Mr. President, four years ago, following one of the most devastating attacks in our nation's history, Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act to give our nation's law enforcement the tools they needed to track down terrorists who plot and lurk within our own borders and all over the world - terrorists who, right now, are looking to exploit weaknesses in our laws and our security to carry out even deadlier attacks than we saw on September 11th.

We all agreed that we needed legislation to make it harder for suspected terrorists to go undetected in this country. Americans everywhere wanted that.

But soon after the PATRIOT Act passed, a few years before I ever arrived in the Senate, I began hearing concerns from people of every background and political leaning that this law didn't just provide law enforcement the powers it needed to keep us safe, but powers it didn't need to invade our privacy without cause or suspicion.

Now, at times this issue has tended to degenerate into an "either-or" type of debate. Either we protect our people from terror or we protect our most cherished principles. But that is a false choice. It asks too little of us and assumes too little about America.

Fortunately, last year, the Senate recognized that this was a false choice. We put patriotism before partisanship and engaged in a real, open, and substantive debate about how to fix the PATRIOT Act. And Republicans and Democrats came together to propose sensible improvements to the Act. Unfortunately, the House was resistant to these changes, and that's why we're voting on the compromise before us.

Let me be clear: this compromise is not as good as the Senate version of the bill, nor is it as good as the SAFE Act that I have cosponsored. I suspect the vast majority of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle feel the same way. But, it's still better than what the House originally proposed.

This compromise does modestly improve the PATRIOT Act by strengthening civil liberties protections without sacrificing the tools that law enforcement needs to keep us safe. In this compromise:


* We strengthened judicial review of both National Security Letters, the administrative subpoenas used by the FBI, and Section 215 orders, which can be used to obtain medical, financial and other personal records.

* We established hard time limits on sneak-and-peak searches and limits on roving wiretaps.

* We protected most libraries from being subject to National Security Letters.

* We preserved an individual's right to seek counsel and hire an attorney without fearing the FBI's wrath.

* And we allowed judicial review of the gag orders that accompany Section 215 searches.

The compromise is far from perfect. I would have liked to see stronger judicial review of National Security Letters and shorter time limits on sneak and peak searches, among other things.

Sen. Feingold has proposed several sensible amendments - that I support - to address these issues. Unfortunately, the Majority Leader is preventing Sen. Feingold from offering these amendments through procedural tactics. That is regrettable because it flies in the face of the bipartisan cooperation that allowed the Senate to pass unanimously its version of the Patriot Act - a version that balanced security and civil liberties, partisanship and patriotism.

The Majority Leader's tactics are even more troubling because we will need to work on a bipartisan basis to address national security challenges in the weeks and months to come. In particular, members on both sides of the aisle will need to take a careful look at President Bush's use of warrantless wiretaps and determine the right balance between protecting our security and safeguarding our civil liberties. This is a complex issue. But only by working together and avoiding election-year politicking will we be able to give our government the necessary tools to wage the war on terror without sacrificing the rule of law.

So, I will be supporting the Patriot Act compromise. But I urge my colleagues to continue working on ways to improve the civil liberties protections in the Patriot Act after it is reauthorized.

I thank the chair and yield the floor."
 
And he voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act. Apparently he thinks our Constitution is just a God damned piece of paper, too.

BTW, Obama was a constitutional law professor. i not sure if this means anything.. he must knows the constitution well enough to be a professor in this field.. but i know this does not tells me anything if he will follow the constitution.. let the skeptics do the talking.. i am all ears.
 
BTW, Obama was a constitutional law professor. i not sure if this means anything.. he must knows the constitution well enough to be a professor in this field.. but i know this does not tells me anything if he will follow the constitution.. let the skeptics do the talking.. i am all ears.

LOL And his wealth redistribution plan is constitutional?
 
SO MUCH LOVE FOR OBOMBA!!! WRITE IN RON PAUL OR GO HOME! You will feel so much better, ohh and READ MY SIG!
 
Obama is the most dangerous Presidential candidate. I am tired of hearing all of his goverment regulation will make the world a better place bullshit rhetoric.
 
worse... of all the dems, now...

what if he's the most presidential?
there are a thousand good reasons
why richardson, kucinich and edwards
are left in the dust at the side of the road.
ms. hillary's efforts are now showing a strain.
bill clinton in S.C may have totally tailspinned her...
obama has 90% to 95% of his current donations being
small $100 internet incriaments of non-fat~cat optimism...
howard dean, ron paul and barack obama are into the net....
 
huckabee and romney are ol' fashioned politics...

huckabee gladhands as if he's running for governor
on a frugal 13 million kitty, and mitt romney blitzed
us with mass media sex appeal and went into the
same delegate niche as huckabee. the sums of money!
huckabee's 12 million purchased a similar clout to
romney's 100 million. as it stands now... mccain
either just did a freudian or perhaps a gaffe. he's
clearly more liberal than mitt romney and less liberal
than legendary and greatly respected george romney.
 
john mccain methinks ACTUALLY is a liberal republican!
or at least the closest media blitz image approximation
to dwight david eisenhower we can get on a shoestring!
 
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