My Sincere Hope For Obama

[amy31416]

Yes. exactly what i am doing now engaging in these forum discussions if you still had not realised it. And to add on what you said, it is not just knowing their positions and records. Sometimes we cannot claim we know the perfect solution to the problem even. E.g. we should scrap universal healthcare... are we all-knowing that we know for sure this is really the right solution?



i am confused. Clinton/McCain/Obama. so who is the lesser evil? pick one. you are not being explicit there...

Of course I'm not being explicit, none of them are even remotely good choices. I'm going third party or write-in. I have a conscience and none of them have earned my vote through their record, proposals or policies.

But if you're strictly looking at Dems, in my mind the war is the most important issue--they have the same stance and are both intentionally vague. The second issue in order of importance is the economy, and Hillary is far better than Obama on that. Take a look at their proposals for spending and on what social programs they would want to try to implement. Educate yourself.

 

[amy31416]

The lady has made herself abundantly clear. She's not voting for evil. What's so hard to understand about that?

That's word.

 

[Kade]

Kade: So Obama's reasoning for voting for the patriot act lite is because it doesn't destroy our liberties as much as the original? Wow, that is amazing reasoning. We better support this guy, he only Kind of wants to trample on our liberties.

Hopefully he will vote for things such as allocating 1 trillion dollars to fund the Iraq war, because that is much better then using 2 trillion to fund the iraq war. Maybe he can also drop some bombs on iran, because that is much better then all out declaring war on iran.

Hell, while he is at it he could create some legislation that says we get to keep 25% of the money we earn, because that is a hell of alot better then getting to keep nothing. What a kind thoughtful guy for letting us keep that 25%

I don't want to be dragged into another insane rant about slavery... You have no idea what slavery is...

I prefer a fresh recycling of the goons in Washington.. they have expanded the executive branch to it's most powerful ever... and it was not the democrats that did it... I hope and trust that Obama will reduce the power of the executive... He is a constitutional law professor... I have three choices... I'm choosing to end the fascist/theocracy/corporatist system.

Sorry if that offends you.

 

[Kade]

Read your own signature for christs sake. If you vote for obama you are trading your liberty in for what you think will be a more secure future.

There is no compromising. Obama isnt a compromise anyway. He is anthema to all this revolution stands for.

He supports the Fed and has the highest spending proposals of all candidates running for office.

If you vote for the lesser of two evils you are playing inti thier hands. Wake the fuck up. Obama isnt the lesser of the evils anyway. They are all exactly the same. The only way obama would be better then the others is he can speak better. Besides that, there are no differences.

More secure future? Where are you getting this insane dribble man?

 

[Kade]

if you still do not want to wake up to the reality, there is nothing i can say. Whether you like it or not, this election will be a democrat vs McCain.

so you really think your anti-obama is helping you getting healthcare for your mother? you should seriously think about how a McCain presidency will help you. You go figure. And fyi, healthcare is not anyway high on my list. i do not care for healthcare that those democrats are proposing.

It appears to be an option between spending for war, or spending for healthcare...

That is our choice. I think it is rather apparent.

 

[Kade]

Did you read my counter analysis? Obama is feeding you a line of bull! His "improvements" are not improvements at all! Worse he voted for the Homegrown terrorism act which institutionalizes the thought police! If you want to vote for Obama because you THINK he will end the Iraq war a little early then by all means go ahead. But if you think he's any better than Hillary or McCain on civil liberties you are fooling yourself! Go back and check the records. Hillary and McCain voted for the same "improvements" that you are fawning over!

Really. Considering that Hillary and Obama both went from "we won't promise to be out by 2013" to "we'll be out by the end of next year" what do you see as the difference between the two of THEM? Forget the 100 year war McCain buggaboo. This is just between Clinton and Obama. What's the difference?

Regards,

John M. Drake

People here continue to amaze and delight me... politics is politics, you have to convince idiots of things in order to win... I trust the man, more than I trust his message...

Also, I'm holding my tongue here, seriously... when and where did Obama vote for the Homegrown Terrorist Act?

That's right you tool. He hasn't.

 

[jmdrake]

It appears to be an option between spending for war, or spending for healthcare...

That is our choice. I think it is rather apparent.

No. It's a choice between going to a FEMA camp over opposing the Iraq war or going to a FEMA camp over global warming. It's a choice between "bomb bomb Iran" and "I won't take military action against Iran off the table". It's a choice between "We may be in Iraq for the next 100 years" and "I can't promise to be out of Iraq by 2013. It all depends upon how things are on the ground". No real difference.

 

[Kade]

No. It's a choice between going to a FEMA camp over opposing the Iraq war or going to a FEMA camp over global warming. It's a choice between "bomb bomb Iran" and "I won't take military action against Iran off the table". It's a choice between "We may be in Iraq for the next 100 years" and "I can't promise to be out of Iraq by 2013. It all depends upon how things are on the ground". No real difference.

Whine, whine, whine, whine...

I just said this was about politics. Obama is a smart man... Regardless of what you feel of the Democratic party, about his repetitive message, about all the things you think and spew and cry about... I sincerely believe that he isn't going do stupid shit in office.

Disagree all you want, I really don't think Obama is going to stick your sorry ass in a FEMA camp...get real.

 

[acptulsa]

I'm choosing to end the fascist/theocracy/corporatist system.

Sorry if that offends you.

That does not offend me. I am pretty certain that you have chosen the wrong champion, however. I see no reason to believe Obama has the slightest interest in reducing his own power.

 

[Kade]

That does not offend me. I am pretty certain that you have chosen the wrong champion, however. I see no reason to believe Obama has the slightest interest in reducing his own power.

I know for certain McCain and Hillary don't... Obama is a smart cat. Read what he writes and read between the lines... ignore the speeches... ignore the rhetoric... go out and study a bit.. .

Read his books or something.

 

[acptulsa]

I know for certain McCain and Hillary don't... Obama is a smart cat. Read what he writes and read between the lines... ignore the speeches... ignore the rhetoric... go out and study a bit.. .

Read his books or something.

I prefer to peruse his voting record. That really speaks louder than words--and says things I don't like.

 

[jmdrake]

Whine, whine, whine, whine...

Lie, lie, lie

I just said this was about politics. Obama is a smart man...

Dick Cheney is a smart man. Karl Rove is a smart man. John McCain is a smart man. Hillary Clinton is a smart woman. What does that have to do with integrity?

Regardless of what you feel of the Democratic party, about his repetitive message, about all the things you think and spew and cry about... I sincerely believe that he isn't going do stupid shit in office.

Right. I tell the truth based on what he actually has said and you call that "spewing and lying". Are you channeling Karl Rove or something?

Disagree all you want, I really don't think Obama is going to stick your sorry ass in a FEMA camp...get real.

I am real. Go read the Homegrown Terrorism bill that Obama voted for chump and get back with us. You are incapable of serious analysis. All you can do is cut and paste speeches and drone on about how wonderful Obama is for giving us back SOME of our rights (not really) in one bill and ignoring the fact that he took MORE of them in the next. And it's not about who will IMMEDIATELY fill the FEMA camps. It's who is setting the stage for the government to do that whenever it feels like it. The Homegrown Terrorism bill is the worst assault on our civil liberties this century and that's saying a lot.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[Kade]

Dick Cheney is a smart man. Karl Rove is a smart man. John McCain is a smart man. Hillary Clinton is a smart woman. What does that have to do with integrity?

Well, I also believe he has integrity. I could be wrong, what's your better choice? Who should I support between the three inevitables?

I am real. Go read the Homegrown Terrorism bill that Obama voted for chump and get back with us. You are incapable of serious analysis. All you can do is cut and paste speeches and drone on about how wonderful Obama is for giving us back SOME of our rights (not really) in one bill and ignoring the fact that he took MORE of them in the next.

Regards,

John M. Drake

John, that hasn't come up to vote yet, how did he vote for it?

I mentioned earlier the education thing, you are changing my mind about it... perhaps read some of Hugo Black, like I mentioned as well?

Also, to make it clear, most of these rants I go on, are, entirely me... Obama's floor speech was a salient point. That's all.

I vehemently disagree with the Pat Act, Mil Com Act, Homegrown Terrorist Act, etc...

 

[Kade]

Lie, lie, lie


John M. Drake

Look, at the end of the day, you and I are probably not much different... in person, I may be able to convince you of some things that you happen to belligerently disagree with now... such is the beauty of personal contact... alas we don't have that... I'm a reasonable person, and I'm always open to have my mind changed.

I'm open about my democratic libertarian feelings... I've made it clear that I am also a First Amendment Absolutist, much like Justice Black.

You and I disagree about the Separation of Church and state and about the candidates inevitably no doubt....

I'm going with my gut. In 2000, for president, I voted in my first presidential election for Harry Browne.

I regret that... as much as he is in line with my thinking, I regret Bush.. I regret what has happened to my country... and something needs to be done. I'm not throwing my vote away John.

 

[brandon]

"democratic libertarian" That has to be an oxymoron.

I understand you are concerned with issues such as freedom of speech and the iraq war. Those issues are libertarian. However, you dont seem to have even the slightest idea about our economic crises or the concept of "economic liberty." You are not a libertarian.

If you want to vote for Obama, then vote for Obama. Stop cluttering up the RON PAUL forums with this though. Have some respect and just leave.

 

[acptulsa]

I regret what has happened to my country... and something needs to be done. I'm not throwing my vote away John.

And would you argue votes for Dubya the last two times were not thrown away? After all, he won, so obviously he was capable of winning.

 

[Kade]

"democratic libertarian" That has to be an oxymoron.

I understand you are concerned with issues such as freedom of speech and the iraq war. Those issues are libertarian. However, you dont seem to have even the slightest idea about our economic crises or the concept of "economic liberty." You are not a libertarian.

If you want to vote for Obama, then vote for Obama. Stop cluttering up the RON PAUL forums with this though. Have some respect and just leave.

Oh for the love of shit-eating will you people just stop...

Here: http://www.democraticfreedomcaucus.org/dfc-platform/

I don't want to call myself anything that advocates insanity.

The founders of libertarian values, from Jefferson, to Rand, to Mises and up.... were INFIDELS, and all advocated economic restraint and anti-monopolies in some fashion.

 

[Kade]

And would you argue votes for Dubya the last two times were not thrown away? After all, he won, so obviously he was capable of winning.

The country is riding itself into the gutter, what else can I say?

 

[Kade]

You are not a libertarian.

Stop cluttering up the RON PAUL forums with this though. Have some respect and just leave.

Nice Brandon.

 

[Kade]

Anyone, I encourage people to read this: http://www.freeliberal.com/archives/001005.html