My relatives make 20k a year, and live better lifestyles than me making 100k

[Zippyjuan]

So if people making less money are better off because those at higher incomes pay more in taxes how many here are willing to give up a promotion or better paying job if they were offered one?

According to a chart at Wiki- if you are earning $80,000 you are in the highest 25% of all earners- and making nearly twice the median (which they list as $44k- figres based on 2005 census data).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States so really aren't doing that bad. Sometimes "wants" can become "needs" as income levels rise. Demand for goods and services is almost unlimited.

 

[onlyrp]

I'm a single mom that makes about 20k a year, little to no child support. I work 2 jobs (one minimum wage and the other 11.25/hr). I don't get food stamps nor do I qualify for the medical card (though my son does, but he only goes to the doc for his yearly checkup and the dentist bi-yearly). I pay for my own high deductible health insurance that covers nothing until I reach that deductible including paying for my own meds. I purchased my first house at the end of 2010. So I have a mortgage and everything else. I drive a '93 vehicle. I seem to be somehow making it...

do you get to eat out like this guy wishes? Do you have a new macbook? do you give to charity 10% of your income?

 

[onlyrp]

So if people making less money are better off because those at higher incomes pay more in taxes how many here are willing to give up a promotion or better paying job if they were offered one?

According to a chart at Wiki- if you are earning $80,000 you are in the highest 25% of all earners- and making nearly twice the median (which they list as $44k- figres based on 2005 census data).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States so really aren't doing that bad. Sometimes "wants" can become "needs" as income levels rise. Demand for goods and services is almost unlimited.

according to that chart, the top 2% need only make $250,000?

 

[LBennett76]

I eat out once or twice a week. My laptop is like 4 years old but it's just fine. I give a few dollars to my church, salvation army people at Christmas, and I donate to local causes when they come by. Heck I gave a couple boys $10 to shovel and salt my sidewalk a few weeks ago. If I was making 85-100k a year, I would be rolling in the dough. But I live in a very inexpensive place. If I lived in a city I'd be screwed except that I'd probably be paid more for what I do. But I choose not to live in a city but live a nice, peaceful, easy lifestyle instead. I have a $5 tracfone and am not the type to rush out and spend gobs on the latest tech gadgets.
People just need to learn to simplify their lives and money troubles begin to ease. That student loan thing though'll get ya. Thankfully I paid mine off years ago. They must have quite a bit if it's taking 20% of their income. Over $1k a month? That's harsh.

 

[Noclone]

Once again, I believe he/she and his/her gf/bf/husband/wife are simply horrible mis-managers of their finances. They claim to make 85-100k annually. Let's cut that in half to take care of taxes, charity, and their student loan debt (say 1k/month). Where is that other 43-50k a year going? By your admission, you are living a "hermit's" lifestyle. IT DOESN'T ADD UP! I have a wife and two children and we are living JUST FINE on less than half your take home. STOP CRYING! All I hear is: "Boo Hoo! I have all this money and don't know how to manage it..." I'm moving on.

 

[Paul Fan]

Nothing wrong with him tithing, but there is something wrong with him for not taking the deduction. I think that's what most people are saying. If he's not going to take the deduction, he shouldn't be giving so much to the church.

And yes, we all want taxes to go down and be eliminated, but that isn't the reality right now.

Yes, I agree he should take the deductions. All I meant was that it is sad that taxes are so high that the advice given is to cut charity. In Dr. Paul's more voluntary society, people will pay less tax and hopefully give more to charity.

I see many uninformed but kind people resisting government spending cuts because they claim that 'people don't currently give enough to charity' to pick up the burden, yet it is the high taxes that are discouraging the charitable donations. So if we can't cut tax until we 'prove' that charitable donations are already high enough to cover what is now paid for by tax, then we'll never get there. We need to keep explaining the high cost and poor quality of government-monopoly charity.

 

[tttar]

Marginal rate of course not the same as the average rate- what is paid on all income. That (the marginal) rate is the tax rate applied to the last dollar earned. It does not include any tax deductions or exmptions which will lower the average rate.

I'm not sure you read my post before you responded.

 

[Noclone]

So if people making less money are better off because those at higher incomes pay more in taxes how many here are willing to give up a promotion or better paying job if they were offered one?

According to a chart at Wiki- if you are earning $80,000 you are in the highest 25% of all earners- and making nearly twice the median (which they list as $44k- figres based on 2005 census data).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States so really aren't doing that bad. Sometimes "wants" can become "needs" as income levels rise. Demand for goods and services is almost unlimited.

I would LOVE to pay more taxes if that means more take home for my family and I.

 

[tttar]

Like the other guy said, people are nitpicking at the details and not giving enough attention to the larger issue raised. Same with the Emmerich article picked apart by TNR.

They were talking off the tops of their heads, but what they said is still largely true, or we wouldn't be in this forum.

I'd love to see a real comparison between the two situations. Exactly how much better off is someone who makes $80,000, versus someone who makes $20,000, or $0?

It's definitely not by $60,000 or $80,000, correct? So how much more is it?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

exactly, organic food and vegetarian diet are liberal environmentalist scams .

No, they're not. Whoever told you that was scamming you. Many people do it for health reasons, something those liberal hippies who care about the environment wouldn't know two shits about.

 

[tttppp]

I understand living in Los Angeles and Connecticut may be higher than many other States in the country (such as Kentucky). I don't doubt your brother actually gets money from his parents, so I'd love to hear more details.

From you, how much do you make, and how much do you save a year (now)?
What are your brother's expenses, and how much assistance does he get from your parents? (I mentioned earlier in the other thread, your brother's income may qualify him for cheap rent apartments, about $600 a month, I know people who live there, they're small, but that's how you "live within your means")
How exactly does this guy's relatives get "better off" by whatever handouts they qualify for?

I don't know how much money my brother gets from my parents or how much his expenses are. He makes different amounts every month. Sometimes he need money, sometimes he doesn't. It depends on the month.

I'm unemployed right now, so I have to live with my parents. I don't have the financial from when I was working.

 

[Noclone]

No, they're not. Whoever told you that was scamming you. Many people do it for health reasons, something those liberal hippies who care about the environment wouldn't know two shits about.

To me, the only "organic" food is that which is picked out of my farm garden... Anything else, I don't trust.

 

[Romulus]

To the OP, you need to change a few things.

1. stretch out that student loan longer. Interest is cheap and tax deductible.

2. buy a modest house under $200k. You can deduct interest there as well and instead of throwing away your money in RENT, you can pay into ownership and build equity.

3. stop giving so much to your church and donate your time instead. Put that 10% toward your new mortgage and student loans.

4. just stop with the whole foods. Shop at Aldi or somewhere similar.. you can still eat clean without going overboard.

5. talk to a tax professional and financial planner.

6. stop worrying about how everyone else is living.

 

[furface]

What this thread tells me. "Welcome to Germany." We're definitely heading in that direction. Fairly low cost of living. Fairly wide safety net. Complaints that there aren't many incentives and may disincentives to work hard and move out of the middle/subsidy class.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

You guys keep leaving out state income tax, which is 6% in my state. We're actually looking into moving to a state with no income tax.

To the guy who suggested getting a house for a mortgage deduction, we hate debt, and want nothing more than student loans. When those are paid off, we are not getting into debt again. Besides, the 1k a month we pay for rent is far cheaper than the mortgages on the 400k+ houses in this part of town. To find cheaper rent or houses requires us to move so far away from work that we can't walk and bike to work anymore. We'd end up paying more in gas, car expenses and stress from traffic.

I am intelligent enough to know about itemized deductions. If we went this route it would have saved us a thousand dollars or so. Big deal. Did not want to itemize for $1k in savings because most IRS audits are geared to those who itemize. In short, I do not want to risk the headaches for $1k in savings. If it were significantly more than that, then of course I'd itemize.

The student loans are well over six figures. In the line of work one of us is in, most students graduate with over 150k in loans, lots of them over 200k or 300k. We personally know coworkers who owe more than 300k. You would be shocked at what kind of debt people are graduating with these days. If you go to a public university, you are fine. However, if you go to a private university as an undergrad, or a choose to go to any graduate school to pursue higher level education, chances are that you are graduating with tons of debt. I made a poll last year here on RPF, asking how much debt people had. Even people on this forum had over 300k in debt.

[edit] to the person who brought up Obama's loan repayment program that is based on income, it is a scam. Those programs do limit the monthly payment, but they are stretched out over 25 years. If we went this route and had remaining debt forgiven at 25 years, we still would have paid almost as much as if we just hurried up and paid the loans off in 10 years or less. Besides, we want to pay back the full amount since the government stole the money from other tax payers; and we want to pay it back ASAP because we don't want to be in debt for 25 years.

Isn't rent like debt? It's the same principle. You can't pay the full value up front, so you pay indefinitely as long as you are living there. It's pretty much the same as if you had a large amount of debt and were trying to pay it off year by year. The payments essentially don't end unless you can eventually own the place where you live. If you don't own it, you are in debt to someone else. Rent is no better than a mortgage. Also, who told you that you need a $400k home? Try $200k, or even $100k (about the value of our house on a $35k/year income; we bought it for 85k, but have since renovated it to be worth about 100k, even in this market). Our mortgage is only $300/month and we are way ahead of schedule because we don't like debt either. My point is that a mortgage and rent are pretty much the same thing at your income level. You just need to get a modest house and pay it off as quickly as you can so that you don't have to worry about that anymore.

The student loans are well over six figures.

Well, there's your problem. You pay interest on those, too, so it requires you to pay more than what you actually owe so it's very demanding and you have to pay more than minimum payments to actually get it paid off. You will have to be more specific about these six figure loans and how much you pay in interest, what your schedule is and how quickly you are paying it off because that makes a huge difference.

 

[onlyrp]

Like the other guy said, you're nitpicking at the details and not giving enough attention to the larger issue raised. Same with the Emmerich article picked apart by TNR.

They were talking off the tops of their heads, but what they said is still largely true, or we wouldn't be in this forum.

I'd love to see a real comparison between the two situations. Exactly how much better off is someone who makes $80,000, versus someone who makes $20,000, or $0?

It's definitely not by $60,000 or $80,000, correct? So how much more is it?

It is for me, I'm on fixed expenses (I know it sounds insane). I used to make $20,000 a year. When I made more, at $40,000, I saved almost all the difference because I did increase my spending.
I am very lucky that I have no debts, and a very responsible family upbringing, my parents still worked til they were both 60. When their house was paid off, they didn't start going on vacations or eating more expensive food. They spending was no different than if they made $30,000 a year (but less because no mortgage to pay). We never qualified for any handouts, we never gave to charity, we donate used items when we can, but almost never in money. In fact, when I lived at home, and made $20,000, I paid all the utility bills for my parents, not because they needed help, but just because I can, so my parents practically paid zero of their income after taxes.

Maybe the real difference here is, we shared, we made the choices. I am not married, and never want to. I don't want kids either. I'm currently renting because I can and want to, but I know it's not a necessity, I can take being made fun of by people that I live at home. I prefer that over being made fun of for not having money.

 

[onlyrp]

Isn't rent like debt? It's the same principle. You can't pay the full value up front, so you pay indefinitely as long as you are living there.

So to live is to be in debt unless you're homeless?

 

[onlyrp]

To the OP, you need to change a few things.

1. stretch out that student loan longer. Interest is cheap and tax deductible.

2. buy a modest house under $200k. You can deduct interest there as well and instead of throwing away your money in RENT, you can pay into ownership and build equity.

3. stop giving so much to your church and donate your time instead. Put that 10% toward your new mortgage and student loans.

4. just stop with the whole foods. Shop at Aldi or somewhere similar.. you can still eat clean without going overboard.

5. talk to a tax professional and financial planner.

6. stop worrying about how everyone else is living.

I disagree with prolonging debt and adding a debt, but that's everybody's own choice.

 

[onlyrp]

I don't know how much money my brother gets from my parents or how much his expenses are. He makes different amounts every month. Sometimes he need money, sometimes he doesn't. It depends on the month.

I'm unemployed right now, so I have to live with my parents. I don't have the financial from when I was working.

Ok, that's fine.

Now, since you live at home. What are your expenses? if any? Are you living within or below "basics"? If below, what are you lacking?

 

[onlyrp]

I would LOVE to pay more taxes if that means more take home for my family and I.

you usually do. You are never taxed beyond the difference you make. Making more always means net more after taxes.