My impression of the rally.

[Mesogen]

Speaking truth to power is one thing. Speaking wacked out crap about stickers on your mailboxes and how sad it is that people aren't forced to be Christians is a thing that draws the wrong kind of attention to any kind of "movement."

 

[BenIsForRon]

Somebody here said that there weren't that many police. How did the police know there were going to be so few people there? I guess their intelligence gathering skills are better than ours.

 

[sidster]

archive.org

Direction markers??

OK.. i'm getting really curious about these markers. Can someone
post a pic of their marked mailbox?

 

[pacelli]

A lot of people seem interested in this issue so...

Please re-direct discussions about marked mailboxes and tacmars to the following thread designed for that topic:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1559969#post1559969

 

[Truth Warrior]

Good post. And I whole heartedly agree with your assessment on the Christian issue. Perhaps we should stomach some of that because the word "Creator" is in our constitution with the idea that you can do whatever the heck you want with your life and that means not being Christian if you want to. Also, Christians make up a good bunch of brainwashed GOP voters and we could use their votes. As a church goer myself, I still agree with your assessment. The Christian pandering could have gone too far and I wasn't even in the audience.

Which Constitution article contains "Creator", if I may ask?

Where did you get your copy?

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

The problem with calling speakers one doesn't like 'fringe' or crazy is the above. Folks, average voters and the media will still designate any talk about fascism as radical, passionate anti-war rhetoric as extremist, and any description of the administration as 'bastards' as lunatic, whether or not truthers or theocrats speak at the event. Stop singling out liberty issues you disagree with marginalizing labels, while approving of other speakers who are ALSO saying things most voters don't think are mainstream. It's poisoning the Revolution.

Would we tag John Adams for 'extremism' for saying our Republic was created for a moral and religious people, and would not survive under any other kind of people? Many would say time has proven him right. So enough with the 'lunatic' watch stuff. Even debating whether 5 or 10,000 people showed up (for an event originally planned to be for over 100,000) is itself a mark of having a lack of perspective. This event didn't have a mainstream impact, period. It encouraged us, and that's it. We should get over the divisive, self-serving liberty thought-police attitudes, and simply respect all movement folks who speak truth to power, be they anti-war or truther, Christian or anti-Fed, etc. Onward to the St. Paul event.

While I agree somewhat, there has to be SOME judgment. George W. Bush probably called himself a "liberty candidate" in 2004 (Iraqi liberty).

Can someone who supports the Iraq war be for liberty and on our side? The PATRIOT act? Higher taxes?

Where is the line?

 

[Truth Warrior]

I was standing right by the stairs, and he literally almost fell on me. I instinctively dodged and his head just missed my feet. I would've tried to catch him I only saw him falling out of the corner of my eye.

I felt sorry for the guy - he was all dressed up. I hated that it happened during Michael Scheuer, who I think is one of the most important voices in this movement because of his terrorism credentials.

Maybe the dressed up guy that fainted during the Scheuer speech was from the CIA! Distraction/diversion psyop?

 

[Truth Warrior]

The thought that struck me during the anti-immigration speech was, instead of spending $3 billion on a wall, why not just:

- criminalize and punish knowing employment of illegals
- require employers to verify SSNs
- repeal the citizenship by birth amendment for illegals

Then, you don't need a wall, because illegals won't be able to find work over here.

And you've even saved $3 billion.

This "wall" mentality is the same thing behind the ridiculous "war on drugs". You can never end it on the supply side.


Duh.



ps. Yeah, the Veterans of Iraq speech rocked! That guy has got some fire.

Perhaps the wall is really more about keeping us in than them out.

 

[revolutionary8]

Sunblock is bullshit

I thought I was gettting burned but all that bullfrog sunscreen I sprayed on really worked. No burn at all.

Sunday, June 29, 2008
Sunblock is Bullshit

I know we do a lot of crazy things that other people don't do. Home birth, Homeschool, and, well, lots of other things I don't want to argue about but this one I have spoken about and HAH HAH HAH I am right.

Sunblock.

It's not good for you, it causes cancer. NOT the sun, mind you, the friggin sun block, OKAY

You can read my ramblings or read those of Mike Adams, who is some kind of expert.

It just isn't logical to me that the SUN- the light of the planet we were born to live on- would be toxic to our SKIN- the only thing designed to get in between our guts and the sun's light.

Mike says...

The scientific evidence, however, shows quite clearly that sunscreen actually promotes cancer by blocking the body's absorption of ultraviolet radiation, which produces vitamin D in the skin. Vitamin D, as recent studies have shown, prevents up to 77% of ALL cancers in women (breast cancer, colon cancer, cervical cancer, lung cancer, brain tumors, multiple myeloma... you name it).



He says lots of other logical things, too but I urge you to read his article so I don't have to paste it all here.

I did a little detective work here, to discover the common ingredients in Sunscreen products and found THIS pdf database and THIS, the Skin Deep cosmetics ingredients database

So- the common sun-blocking ingredients are..

Homosalate (moderate hazard)
A UVB protector. Research indicates it is a weak hormone disruptor, forms toxic metabolites, and can enhance the penetration of a toxic herbicide. Restricted in Japan for cosmetics, Enhances skin absorption of toxins

Octinoxate (moderate hazard)
The most widely used sunscreen ingredient, known for its low potential to sensitize skin or act as a phototallergen. Estrogenic effects are noted in laboratory animals as well as disruption of thyroid hormone and brain signaling. Produces excess reactive oxygen species that can interfere with cellular signaling, cause mutations, lead to cell death and may be implicated in cardiovascular disease. Ingredient is suspected or measured to accumulate in people.

Oxybenzone (high hazard)
Associated with photoallergic reactions. This chemical absorbs through the skin in significant amounts. It contaminates the bodies of 97% of Americans according to Centers for Disease Control research. Outlawed in Japan. Produces excess reactive oxygen species that can interfere with cellular signaling, cause mutations, lead to cell death and may be implicated in cardiovascular disease.

Octisalate (moderate hazard)
Octisalate is a weak UVB absorber with a generally good safety profile among sunscreen ingredients. It is a penetration enhancer, which may increase the amount of other ingredients passing through skin.


Zinc Oxide low - high risk
Zinc has a long history of use in sunscreen and other skin care products; little absorption and no adverse health effects are reported. Some sunscreens with zinc contain nanoparticles which do not penetrate skin but may pose toxicity concerns if inhaled (like in SPRAY SUNSCREEN) or in the environment. One or more animal studies show brain and nervous system effects at high doses. One or more animal studies show skin irritation at moderate doses

Titanium Dioxide low- high risk
Titanium dioxide has a long history of use in sunscreen and other products. It appears safe for use on skin, due to low penetration but inhalation is a concern. Some titanium sunscreens (SPRAY SUNSCREEN) contain nano-size particles may have greater toxicity to body tissues and environment.


AvoBenz One not listed

Octocrylene (moderate hazard)
Octocrylene may be used in combination with other UV absorbers to achieve higher SPF formulas. It produces oxygen radicals when exposed to UV light. Restricted in cosmetics (recommendations or requirements) - use, concentration, or manufacturing restrictions - Japan - restricted for use in cosmetics (concentration limit)

Padimate-O (moderate hazard)
A derivative of the once-popular PABA sunscreen ingredient, research shows this chemical releases free radicals, damages DNA, has estrogenic activity, and still causes allergic reactions in some people.Restricted in Japan, bla bla bla this is getting old

Ensulizole (moderate hazard)
Known to produce free radicals when exposed to sunlight, leading to damage of DNA, this UVB protector may have the potential to cause cancer. Restricted in Japan.


Meradimate (low hazard)
A moderately effective UVA protector not permitted for use in Europe or Japan. 1 study found that it produces damaging reactive oxygen species when exposed to sunlight.

italic text notes are from me

Even though the EPA warns that

"Small children are ten times more sensitive to most chemicals than are adults."

and a lot of these ingredients increase skin absorption of pesticides (read above)

They've got a cute little downloadable song that teaches kids to use sunblock as part of an entire SunWise curriculum for teachers, parents and communities.

Anyhow- the bottom line is- don't burn. Wear a wide-brimmed hat and limit sun exposure until you've built up a little base coat of protection. It's sun burns (and sun block) that cause cell damage. So use your brain and get out of the sun if you're prone to burning.

If we lived in tribes and spent most of our time outdoors, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, we'd all be a little toasted all year long. However, we spend most of our time indoors, (like um all winter) and have weakened our body's natural ability to deal with the sun. So build it back up, spend more time (ease into it) outdoors and get the Vitamin D that you deserve to prevent 77% of cancers. Even Gardasil doesn't do that (don't get me started on Gardasil)

Lotsa crazy crud going down at the Hannigan house. Don't miss another post,

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http://mrshannigan.blogspot.com/2008/06/sunblock-is-bullshit.html

 

[Truth Warrior]

Somebody here said that there weren't that many police. How did the police know there were going to be so few people there? I guess their intelligence gathering skills are better than ours.

Maybe some of them are RP fans too.

 

[Mark]

I guess Christians aren't allowed freedom of speech .

Correct. Only the spiritual views, beliefs and opinions of those who do not believe in a God are allowed.

The religion of Atheism's viewpoint is the only acceptable criteria, and all speeches must conform to that belief system.

If your spiritual outlook is that a God exists, keep it to yourself in all communications, especially at rallys where you're giving a speech.
No mention of a "God" is allowed.

If your spiritual outlook is that a God does not exist, feel free to espouse your beliefs, especially at rallys by not including any mention of
a "God", or what would be that type of Being's effects.

And always keep in mind the doublespeak that has made Atheism's belief system the only acceptable viewpoint in schools and Science,
that belief in a God is Religion, while not believing in a God is not Religion.

Remember, not believing in a God is not religious, while believing in a God is religious.

 

[TheSkeptic]

The problem with calling speakers one doesn't like 'fringe' or crazy is the above. Folks, average voters and the media will still designate any talk about fascism as radical, passionate anti-war rhetoric as extremist, and any description of the administration as 'bastards' as lunatic, whether or not truthers or theocrats speak at the event. Stop singling out liberty issues you disagree with marginalizing labels, while approving of other speakers who are ALSO saying things most voters don't think are mainstream. It's poisoning the Revolution.

Sounds good, but this is just not true.

There are varying degrees of "radicalism" and what is perceived to be nuttiness.

If I approach someone in the mall, hand them a Ron Paul flier, and say, "We need to abolish the Federal Reserve, they are causing inflation and devaluing the currency," that person will probably think that my statement was a bit out there, but they are at least going to think about what I said, and perceive me as someone who is looking at the issues.

If I approach that same person and hand them a flyer while saying that they should check their mailbox for stickers so they'll know whether or not they'll be shot in their backyard when the government sends in an invasion of foreign troops, they are going to laugh in my face and think I'm a moron.


Ron Paul said yesterday that revolutions start with just 3-5%. He's right, and that's fine. But a successful revolution cannot END with just 3-5%. The framers could've talked about freedom from England all they wanted, but unless they had mobilized everyone else to fight, all it would have been was talk.

Perception of this movement DOES MATTER, and it appears that same have the attitude "well screw America, we'll do it without them."

Newsflash: We did not get involved in this thing to preach to a choir of a few thousand people. We got involved to wake up America as a whole, get them talking about what real liberty is, and how we can get it back.

So the 9/11 truth, the theocracy daydreaming, and the flat out weird stuff like the Sticker Conspiracy - it has no place riding on the coattails of what is supposed to be a movement aimed at restoring the Constitution.

I grew up in a Christian household and know the Bible very well. And the Bible teaches that you do not shove everything down someone's throat at once. You first give them the milk, then the meat when they're able to handle it. 9/11 Truth and Christian theocracy is not milk, and it will turn away people who would otherwise be intrigued by the message.


And in Thomas Woods' defense, the administration is a bunch of war criminals and treasonous bastards, and there are not a whole lot of people in this country anymore who would disagree. That is a good kind of "extremism" - straight talk that people can respect.

 

[TheSkeptic]

Correct. Only the spiritual views, beliefs and opinions of those who do not believe in a God are allowed.

Not true. In my original posts I applauded Chuck Baldwin as a great speaker at the event, even though he did mention God, and I know he's a prominent evangelical.

I don't care if someone believes in a god, that's fine. But some of the speakers literally sounded like preachers. This was not to be a religious rally, it was supposed to be a political one.

There is a fine line and some speakers crossed it.


Again - this is a political movement, it has nothing to do with building a memorial to Jesus and the 10 Commandments by the Capitol Building.

 

[LibertyEagle]

If I approach someone in the mall, hand them a Ron Paul flier, and say, "We need to abolish the Federal Reserve, they are causing inflation and devaluing the currency," that person will probably think that my statement was a bit out there, but they are at least going to think about what I said, and perceive me as someone who is looking at the issues.

If I approach that same person and hand them a flyer while saying that they should check their mailbox for stickers so they'll know whether or not they'll be shot in their backyard when the government sends in an invasion of foreign troops, they are going to laugh in my face and think I'm a moron.

Ha! Very true, IMO.

 

[Paul Revered]

After Ron Paul spoke, Dick Heller came on. After he left the stage, I was told that he is running for D.C. Mayor. I was asked to visit his website. I explained that I'm not a D.C. resident. I was told that this didn't matter; that he needed people to sign a petition. I asked for literature but, they were out of it. I didn't think that I would have trouble finding his website; but I was wrong. His involvement with the SCOTUS case makes trying to find a needle in a haystack easier. Does anyone here know of this website?

 

[TheSkeptic]

If his site is brand new or has no one linking to it, the search engines may not have picked it up yet.

 

[sidster]

If I approach someone in the mall, hand them a Ron Paul flier, and say, "We need to abolish the Federal Reserve, they are causing inflation and devaluing the currency," that person will probably think that my statement was a bit out there, but they are at least going to think about what I said, and perceive me as someone who is looking at the issues.

If I approach that same person and hand them a flyer while saying that they should check their mailbox for stickers so they'll know whether or not they'll be shot in their backyard when the government sends in an invasion of foreign troops, they are going to laugh in my face and think I'm a moron.

Hey, look at it this way... you'll have the last laugh when he and
his family are being executed in their own backyard! Then you'd
be laughing out loud and saying "Who's the moron now?!"

But seriously, you see the difference between the two scenarios you
pose, right? The first one we know a lot about. We know what the Fed
is, when it was formed, how it came to be, what it does, how its "doings"
affect the rest of us, etc.

The latter, on the other hand, we don't know what the heck they are.
Certainly, it's my first time hearing/reading about it in this very thread.
All we have is a mail delivery person saying he hasn't known about
them, I found another forum with another mail carrier with same
claim. I exchanged with a friend who has had a paper route for
many years some years ago and he doesn't know about them. A
few folks in this thread claim to have those stickers on their mailboxes,
though, no pics of them yet.

My googling, turned up TACMARS, which aren't the same, but
provide some interesting reading.

I agree that you don't approach people with the mailbox marker/sticker
story until we know more about them and have a better understanding
of what they really are (or could possibly be). But that's not to
say you ignore it completely. If I see these markings on my neighbor's
house, say, I'm gonna ask him/her if they know what those are for.

 

[Mark]

So the 9/11 truth, the theocracy daydreaming, it has no place riding on the coattails of what is supposed to be a movement aimed at restoring the Constitution.

I believe it does indeed have a most important part to play. For one, we happen to need people who believe in God to feel welcome too.

We especially need to bring around believers who support the neo-cons
(who have quite effectively greatly misconstrued who God is to promote their agenda).

e.g. - Enlightening people to understand that Jesus would have no part in killing innocent people to protect His own life would put
an entirely new light on the fact that several innocent women and children were killed by even the first bomb to drop in this latest war.

Q: According to Jesus, how many innocent people is it okay to kill in order to protect your own life?

A: Zero

~~~~~~

And it would also be quite effective in terms of enlightening the masses if certain facts about 9/11
were shown to directly contradict the "official" story.

e.g. - The plane that "crashed" in PA.
Why was the wreckage scattered over 5-8 miles like a plane hit by a missile instead of being concentrated at
the so-called "crash site" like every other plane crash? Why did the hole in the ground look like a missile crater?

Why did the original hole in the Pentagon look like a missile impact?
Where was all of the wreckage from the plane that we were told hit the Pentagon?

As soon as people understand that we were told many lies about 9/11, it'll open up a floodgate of questions
about other actions taken by certain people in positions of power.

9/11 could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back.
I'm not discounting it's potential in moving the populous to action in order to restore Constitutional Rule.

~~~~~~~~

I agree, extreme views/ideas/points can turn a lot of people off, but, presented with finesse, certain simple facts can be quite effective.

 

[constituent]

Which Constitution article contains "Creator", if I may ask?

Where did you get your copy?

zondervan apparently.

 

[TheSkeptic]

Christians can certainly feel welcome without the Christian agenda being pushed. However, non-Christians cannot feel welcome when that agenda is given a lot of prominence.

I agree, there are a lot of inconsistencies with the 9/11 story. And I think it would be great if someone like Michael Moore really brought that issue into the mainstream. But that movement does not need to be closely associated with Ron Paul, who has categorically rejected it.