My experience with US Customs

[rolirn]

I don’t know if this is the right forum for this, or if there is such a thing on RPF, but I thought I’d ask. I am appealing for help. I am a very small individual importer and have been fighting with US Customs over an import of mine they seized about 2.5 years ago. Although they have provided no legitimate basis for seizure, and in all my research for my objections I have not been able to find any, they hold fast. The import is not worth spending a lot on attorney fees, so I have basically been fighting it alone. But it has been a very lonely and frustrating battle. I really have no outside sources of support or help. Frankly, you would not believe the lies and doubletalk and incompetence I have encountered from gov people. I don’t know how much this forum discusses this agency (which is now tied to the dept of homeland security), but I have quite a bit to tell. I basically have all the phone tapes and emails and letters/filings of all my dealings with them in this case. There is a lot of material and I think the story is quite incredible. I have written/filed lengthy protests to basically their every move, but have yet to receive any direct rebuttals to my defenses of my goods. They have repeatedly promised to discuss the merits of the case with me, but have never made an attempt. Their official responses consist of little more than in effect “denied”.

Anyway, I have some more immediate questions. Should I provide specific details here? Should I provide my identity? Should I name names? I would love to get some outside feedback, especially if there are some import/export experts here. My customs broker was of little help in this matter and I haven’t heard from them/him in over a year. I suspect they “fired” me because of all the time I ate up in phone calls about this early on. And the one attorney I hired turned out to be as big of a joke. I don’t know if this is an appropriate thread, or if importing is even protected by any kind of civil rights.

Customs appears to be like a court, but not really. They can hold your goods as guilty, but not actually YOU. So it’s kind of like you have to defend your goods after they have presumed them to be guilty. Because it’s not actually a real court of law, they basically get away with anything – including changing the “charges” after you have presented your defense. Although they are SUPPOSED to be bound by laws, they really don’t appear to care.

My next move might be a no-brainer slam dunk, considering all the blatant abuse and incompetence demonstrated to me by this agency, but I just don’t know. The only thing I know how to do is write elaborate defenses against their allegations, but that doesn’t seem to work when it comes to these people. It’s like a kangaroo court where defenses are irrelevant. At this point, I am getting short on recourses. Posting here was one of my last. I desperately need help. Next deadline is mid-July.

 

[robertwerden]

I have no clue what you should do because I have no clue what they took from you. Maybe explaining that part was unintentionally left out, but importing things into this country is pretty easy unless those things are specifically list on the us customs import ban list.

 

[rolirn]

While what you imply is correct (that the identity of the goods is fundamental), I didn’t know how detailed to get. Your request has answered that.

The material is dried Amanita muscaria mushrooms. While I don’t know if this material is under some internal/informal “ban list” of US Customs for imports, it doesn’t fall under any legitimate/publicized restrictions that I can find (or that Customs has provided). I would love for someone to provide one.

 

[robertwerden]

I would say your on drugs, but apparently your not because you didnt get your shrooms. Although I agree you should be able to buy and use these shrooms, currently they are illegal drugs and your lucky you didnt get arrested for trying to import a hallucinogen.

 

[rolirn]

You are confusing your mushrooms. Amanita muscaria is not illegal. No species in the genus Amanita is prohibited. Psilocybe mushrooms are the illegal ones. Amanita does not fall under any legitimate prohibition, nor did Customs seize the mushrooms for any such reason.

 

[amy31416]

You are confusing your mushrooms. Amanita muscaria is not illegal. No species in the genus Amanita is prohibited. Psilocybe mushrooms are the illegal ones. Amanita does not fall under any legitimate prohibition, nor did Customs seize the mushrooms for any such reason.

Give it up. You can't win this and they've likely been destroyed.

Amanita muscaria, commonly known as the fly agaric ( /ˈæɡərɪk/) or fly Amanita ( /ˌæməˈnaɪtə/), is a poisonous and psychoactive basidiomycete fungus, one of many in the genus Amanita. Native throughout the temperate and boreal regions of the Northern Hemisphere, Amanita muscaria has been unintentionally introduced to many countries in the Southern Hemisphere, generally as a symbiont with pine plantations, and is now a true cosmopolitan species. It associates with various deciduous and coniferous trees. The quintessential toadstool, it is a large white-gilled, white-spotted, usually deep red mushroom, one of the most recognizable and widely encountered in popular culture. Several subspecies, with differing cap colour, have been recognised to date, including the brown regalis (considered a separate species), the yellow-orange flavivolvata, guessowii, and formosa, and the pinkish persicina. Genetic studies published in 2006 and 2008 show several sharply delineated clades which may represent separate species.

Sounds like you can go for a walk in the woods and get more.

 

[steph3n]

agricultural seizures are some of the most basic forms of protection of our borders. there are some NASTY things that have been imported due to lies and other means.

you won't gt these back, and frankly I support them not giving back to you. sometimes even a slight variation form another part of the world can wreck havok here.
I've personally seen this varietal in virginia being eaten by squirrels that were protecting it, and slightly crazy (high), so from that standpoint you can get these in the US already so there is no need to import them at all!

Kudzu is used a lot in Japan, it was introduced into the US and is taking over the trees and native vegetation every year, and near impossible to kill.

there is but one imported item that is a big problem.

 

[pcosmar]

I've personally seen this varietal in virginia being eaten by squirrels that were protecting it, and slightly crazy (high), so from that standpoint you can get these in the US already so there is no need to import them at all!

Squirrely Squirrels,, imagine that.

 

[robertwerden]

Dude, all I had to do is google it and it came up as Toxic, Poison and Psychoactive. Come on, even the stupid customs agents can use google.

 

[rolirn]

Give it up. You can't win this and they've likely been destroyed.



Sounds like you can go for a walk in the woods and get more.

Amy,

Wow, I really didn’t expect these responses from this forum. Do you tell all who are battling unjust government action to “give it up...you can't win”. I’ve lurked this forum a long time and I honestly don’t think I have ever heard that advice before.

Yes, these mushrooms are also indigenous to the US. Are you using that fact as a basis for implying that they should not be imported? If so, please explain. Beyond that, should import restrictions/seizures have statutory bases, or should Customs be given the authority to “ban” anything they feel like? Analogous question: Should cops be able to seize any substance they feel like, even if it’s not legally prohibited?

 

[rolirn]

1. agricultural seizures are some of the most basic forms of protection of our borders.

2. there are some NASTY things that have been imported due to lies and other means.

3. you won't gt these back, and frankly I support them not giving back to you. sometimes even a slight variation form another part of the world can wreck havok here.
I've personally seen this varietal in virginia being eaten by squirrels that were protecting it, and slightly crazy (high), so from that standpoint you can get these in the US already so there is no need to import them at all!

Kudzu is used a lot in Japan, it was introduced into the US and is taking over the trees and native vegetation every year, and near impossible to kill.

there is but one imported item that is a big problem.

Steph,

1. I don’t believe this material falls under “agricultural”, since it was not cultivated and was not imported for consumption. Instead, it came from the wild and was classified as “ornamental”.

2. Are you implying that I have lied somewhere?

3. You support the seizure because you think the material could “wreck havok here” (on the environment)?? Unless you think ALL imports of natural materials should be seized, that doesn’t seem reasonable. But if you DO think that, don’t you think it should be a law that should be publicized? Or are you merely saying that there should be a law (import prohibition) that says that anything available in this country shall not be imported? I’m sorry, but that sounds even less reasonable.

 

[rolirn]

Dude, all I had to do is google it and it came up as Toxic, Poison and Psychoactive. Come on, even the stupid customs agents can use google.

If your point is that anything that is toxic and/or psychoactive should be prohibited from importation, you should realize that many imported goods qualify under that description.

 

[robertwerden]

Dude your acting like a fucking troll. Call the customs agent and ask them if it is ok to import your shrooms, if they say no then fight them in court if you feel so strongly about it. Don't come in here on your first post asking for customs advise from people who really are not qualified to help and then when they try and give their opinion turn the whole fucking thing into a slam against you.

 

[amy31416]

Amy,

Wow, I really didn’t expect these responses from this forum. Do you tell all who are battling unjust government action to “give it up...you can't win”. I’ve lurked this forum a long time and I honestly don’t think I have ever heard that advice before.

Yes, these mushrooms are also indigenous to the US. Are you using that fact as a basis for implying that they should not be imported? If so, please explain. Beyond that, should import restrictions/seizures have statutory bases, or should Customs be given the authority to “ban” anything they feel like? Analogous question: Should cops be able to seize any substance they feel like, even if it’s not legally prohibited?

First off, importing plants/plant matter/seeds of any sort is strictly regulated. There is good reason for this, and you have to get appropriate permissions/licenses to do so, and it'd obviously need to be inspected. I hesitatingly approve of controlling what plants/wildlife/fungi, etc is allowed into the country. The Great Lakes up my way have been over-run with zebra mussels (from China), and some other weird fish that I can't remember the name of right now...Steph3n's example of kudzu is a good one.

Do I think that they're completely reasonable about what they do and don't allow? Of course not, but I have to question how smart it is to try and bring them into the country, manage to get off without getting arrested and then still obsess about your 2.5 year-old fungi.

What I think would be fair is if you paid a storage fee and were able to retrieve your property upon returning to whatever country you came from.

And no, cops shouldn't be able to "seize" anything, they should return property to their rightful owners if stolen.

 

[MelissaWV]

Your ornamental mushrooms have probably been destroyed.

If you can research online and provide proof to them that this should not have been done, then go right ahead, and I support your efforts to try to obtain some sort of compensation. First, though, you really should get your ducks in a row BEFORE you attempt to import things. You have already admitted you have no idea what is on the "banned" list of imported items. This is your first stumble.

Your lambasting of the forums is harsh and a bit naive. While we would all love for there to be a larger number of freedoms, and for you to be able to put in a successful claim if your property has been wrongly destroyed, we recognize that we live in the here and now. If you are going to base your entire business on importation of ornamental mushrooms (that can be picked here in the US, so I'm not sure what your profit margin will be?), you should learn the rules before trying to ship them here. This would be true if a state controlled its own borders, too, as many states would be wary of importing fungi, decorative or not.

 

[steph3n]

Yes, these mushrooms are also indigenous to the US. Are you using that fact as a basis for implying that they should not be imported? If so, please explain. Beyond that, should import restrictions/seizures have statutory bases, or should Customs be given the authority to “ban” anything they feel like? Analogous question: Should cops be able to seize any substance they feel like, even if it’s not legally prohibited?

When it comes to agriculture our customs have every right to prevent import of such, and very well SHOULD.

 

[lightai]

jeez, they guy was only asking if anyone could help him out not for judgement on his business or whether he was right to import those items or not. bit harsh..

out of curiosity, what is the value of your items. After 2.5 years will the items still be usable? and what are the mushrooms used for?

 

[MelissaWV]

jeez, they guy was only asking if anyone could help him out not for judgement on his business or whether he was right to import those items or not. bit harsh..

out of curiosity, what is the value of your items. After 2.5 years will the items still be usable? and what are the mushrooms used for?

He said they are ornamental

The responses were fine, though. He was talking this up as if it were some terrible police action, but the reality is even without the Government you would likely have had these seized if you did not follow the given area's customs process. His only course of action is to demonstrate how the seizure was wrongful, and sue to get compensated. This could well be avoided by researching the area's customs process before attempting to import something, and the loss is going to be part of his cost of doing business (repeatedly) until he figures out whether it's worth it to keep trying to import something which could be gathered for cheap stateside.

 

[AceNZ]

If you can't afford an attorney, and your personal efforts have not been effective, another possible avenue of recourse is to go to the press.

However, as others have pointed out, the material you are trying to import is somewhat controversial. I would therefore be sure to present documentation to the press that supports your view. For example, you might try to get permission to import from Customs, in writing, ideally on their letterhead (not necessarily in relation to your specific case).

Was the shipment insured? If so, your insurance company should be able to help.

Have you tried going up the management chain at Customs? If the low-level folks are stonewalling you, go to their management.

The only other idea I have for you is to try to enlist the help of the exporter. If they could provide documentation for other, successful exports to the US, that might help. They also might be able to lobby Customs on your behalf.

 

[Petar]

I have had my balls fondled by US customs, like 4 times, all stemming from the fact that I had tried to cross into the United States to work on a clients website, and was not aware that requires a work permit.

Well color me Mexican...

Anyway, have you seriously never heard of the war on drugs?

Do you have any idea how lucky you are that you did not get cavity-raped/confined for an extended period of time?

My personal opinion is that you are seriously wasting your time with this.