Muh reparations

Origanalist

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Ohio Senate Candidate Floats Reparations For White People

An Ohio candidate for US Senator, Bernie Moreno, has suggested that the white descendants of northern Civil War soldiers should receive some type of reparations.

"We stand at the shoulders of giants, don’t we? We stand on shoulders of people like John Adams, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, George Washington. That this group of people took on the largest empire in history. They said no, we will not stand for this. And won," Moreno told supporters at a campaign event last week.

"That same group of people later, white people, died to free black people. It’s never happened in human history before, but it happened here in America. That’s not taught a lot in schools much is it?" continued Moreno, who's looking to challenge US Senator Sherrod Brown.



https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-ohio-senate-candidate-floats-reparations-white-people
 
Somebody's off script. Abolitionists are cancelled.

Amazingly, white abolitionists are being attacked now.

It is not obvious that the racism of antislavery activists and politicians can account for the disastrous aftermath of slavery.

If there was a fatal flaw within the antislavery movement, it was one that radicals and moderates shared, and one that was closely related to the very nature of their bourgeois radicalism — an unquestioning commitment to the economic and moral superiority of free labor, a commitment that both inspired and deluded the opponents of slavery.

Even the most radical abolitionists betrayed a blind faith in the magical healing powers of a free market in labor. Scarcely a single theme of the broader antislavery argument strayed far from the premise. Sometimes it was front and center, as when William Seward claimed to have seen with his own eyes the supposed backwardness and irrationality of a southern economy impoverished, or so Seward thought, by its dependence on labor that was coerced rather than rewarded.

Other antislavery arguments were deduced from the premise of free labor’s superiority. The critique of the Slave Power, for example, rested on the assumption that the slaveholders had successfully hijacked the federal government to prop up a slave economy that, left to its own devices, should have shriveled and died on its own. The cruelty and barbarism of slavery likewise derived from the fact that slave labor had to be forced whereas free labor was self-motivated by the lure of remuneration.

Slavery’s enemies used language that delegitimized slavery by mystifying free labor. Dethrone the Slave Power, they claimed, and slavery would die a “natural” death. Lincoln’s own defense of free labor sounded less of economic efficiency than of scriptural injunction, less Adam Smith than the King James Bible. In the right to bread she earns from the sweat of her brow, Lincoln often said, the black woman is my equal and the equal of any living man. Statements of this sort make it difficult, not to say futile, to draw sharp lines between the “moral” and the “economic” arguments against slavery.

It’s hard to imagine what abolitionism would have looked like without its faith — for that’s what it was: faith — in the invisible hand of a free market in labor. In 1833, no less a radical than William Lloyd Garrison invoked its power in the founding charter of the American Anti Slavery Society. Immediate abolition would make the South more rather than less prosperous, Garrison believed, because free labor was more highly motivated than slave labor. Emancipation “would not amputate a limb or break a bone of the slave but,” he explained, “by infusing motives into their breasts, would make them doubly valuable to the masters as free laborers.”

Even Garrison’s later disunionism rested on the premise that northern secession would force the slave states to survive on their own, isolating them within a cordon of freedom, and causing the slave system to die its long-delayed natural death. The slaveholders themselves would eventually realize that a free market in labor power would make their farms and plantations more profitable than ever.

Frederick Douglass put the matter succinctly during the Civil War. When Democrats asked, “What is to be done with the Negro?” once slavery was abolished, Douglass’s one-word answer was: Nothing. Leave the former slaves alone, free them from the restraining hands of their masters, and they would be fine. This was bourgeois radicalism at its most blinkered, narrowing freedom down to formal civic equality and letting the “market” do the rest of the work.

Only after the Civil War, when it became clear that leaving the freed people to fend for themselves was a recipe for disaster, did Douglas repudiate his former faith in the miraculous workings of the free labor market. Like many radicals in the late nineteenth century, Douglass came to see that libertarianism was not enough, that the state would have to actively intervene in the economy if capitalism was to preserve even the semblance of justice and decency. Formal civic equality and contract labor had brought little freedom and less prosperity to the postwar South. Doing “nothing” was doing too much damage.

https://jacobin.com/2014/08/the-real-problem-with-white-abolitionists/

Talk about racism, the Constitution, God, and all the rest, people. You just can't hide the fact that what you're really attacking is freedom. These people are actually arguing that the problem isn't that the blacks were enslaved, the problem is that the whites weren't enslaved with them.
 
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Where's my 5 million? I need some reparations..

 
"Where are the reparations for the people in the North who died to save the lives of Black people?"

I know that was just snarky one-upmanship, but still ...

There were certainly people in the North who died to preserve the Union and maintain the political power of Abraham Lincoln, et al. But where were these alleged "people in the North who died to save the lives of Black people"? Because I'm not seeing them anywhere in any remotely significant number.

And why didn't the people who supposedly died to "save the lives of Black people" do so for the black people in places like Delaware and Maryland (where slavery remained extant and perfectly legal throughout the whole of the so-called American Civil War)? Those places were, after all, a hell of a lot closer to "people in the North" than, say, Texas and Alabama. Or maybe - just maybe - they weren't really fighting to "save the lives"[1] of anyone at all, and we should just drop the bogus and unhistorical pretense that they were. [2]



[1] And none of this is to mention that enslaved blacks (in the South or in the North) didn't need to have their lives saved. They were much too valuable to be systematically killed. Rather, they were being systematically enslaved, and what they actually needed was to have their liberty restored and preserved - but that is not at all what "the people in the North" were trying to do (save for a small minority of abolitionists).

[2] By the same token, we should also abolish the ridiculous notion that World War Two was fought to "save the lives of the Jews". Ending human chattel slavery in America and the Holocaust in Nazi Germany were greatly and profoundly fortunate side effects - but they were never the motivation, and it's just silly to pretend they were (even if it's just to score some snark points).
 
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I know that was just snarky one-upmanship, but still ...

There were certainly people in the North who died to preserve the Union and maintain the political power of Abraham Lincoln, et al. But where were these alleged "people in the North who died to save the lives of Black people"? Because I'm not seeing them anywhere in any remotely significant number.

And why didn't the people who supposedly died to "save the lives of Black people" do so for the black people in places like Delaware and Maryland (where slavery remained extant and perfectly legal throughout the whole of the so-called American Civil War)? Those places were, after all, a hell of a lot closer to "people in the North" than, say, Texas and Alabama. Or maybe - just maybe - they weren't really fighting to "save the lives"[1] of anyone at all, and we should just drop the bogus and unhistorical pretense that they were. [2]



[1] And none of this is to mention that enslaved blacks (in the South or in the North) didn't need to have their lives saved. They were much too valuable to be systematically killed. Rather, they were being systematically enslaved, and what they actually needed was to have their liberty restored and preserved - but that is not at all what "the people in the North" were trying to do (save for a small minority of abolitionists).

[2] By the same token, we should also abolish the ridiculous notion that World War Two was fought to "save the lives of the Jews". Ending human chattel slavery in America and the Holocaust in Nazi Germany were greatly and profoundly fortunate side effects - but they were never the motivation, and it's just silly to pretend they were (even if it's just to score some snark points).

Mooslims enslaved Whitey, I want muh reparations.

Also, I'm not familiar with the notion that WWII was fought to save the Jews, when did this become a thing?

( reparations deserves all the snark that can be thrown at it)
 
Also, I'm not familiar with the notion that WWII was fought to save the Jews, when did this become a thing?

It's been a thing for a long time. It's one of the most common casual justifications for the US having gotten involved in WW2.

But that is a "back-engineered" excuse, of course. Very few were saying it at the time (and certainly no one with any real power) - just like no one except a tiny group of abolitionists said "we have to save the Negroes" until after the Civil War was already over. The actual reasons (for WW2, or for the Civil War) were not nearly as lofty (which is why such noble excuses had to be concocted after the fact).

( reparations deserves all the snark that can be thrown at it)

I agree - but there's no reason all the snark can't be good snark like this ...

Mooslims enslaved Whitey, I want muh reparations.

... instead of lame snark like this ...

"Where are the reparations for the people in the North who died to save the lives of Black people?"
 
It's been a thing for a long time. It's one of the most common casual justifications for the US having gotten involved in WW2.

But that is a "back-engineered" excuse, of course. Very few were saying it at the time (and certainly no one with any real power) - just like no one except a tiny group of abolitionists said "we have to save the Negroes" until after the Civil War was already over. The actual reasons (for WW2, or for the Civil War) were not nearly as lofty (which is why such noble excuses had to be concocted after the fact).



I agree - but there's no reason all the snark can't be good snark like this ...



... instead of lame snark like this ...

I guess I'm just not in the loop on this one. I know it was glorified to the point of proselytizing how we saved the Jews but never heard it being the reason, or even one of the main reasons for entering the war.
 
I guess I'm just not in the loop on this one. I know it was glorified to the point of proselytizing how we saved the Jews but never heard it being the reason, or even one of the main reasons for entering the war.

I've heard it a lot, at least relative to arguments over the issue (though it's not like there are a lot of those nowadays). (Also, just to be clear, I've never heard anyone claim that it was the only - or even the primary - reason we joined WW2. But It has been claimed to be one of the reasons.)

One of the most common rebuttals to the claim, BTW. is the infamous incident in which the US (under FDR) turned away a passenger ship full of Jewish refugees before the war. They ended up having to return to Germany, and many of them were eventually killed in the Holocaust.

Its akin to the idiotic claim that the North fought the Civil War in order to end slavery despite the fact that it continued to practice and enforce slavery all throughout the war.
 
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