MO GOP Shambles listen to what happened

[bucfish]

Challenge them if they lose all delegates seated for National than those cannot vote McCain. I cannot wait for St. Paul. The Gop is in for a return to their principles and the True Conservative Revolution.

 

[pepperpete1]

Challenges

They did the exact same thing in louisiana a couple of months ago.
They basically said, we'd rather loose our delegates, to get rid of yours by intentionally breaking the rules.

The difference here is I have not seen where a formal challenge is in place. Please find a source that documents a contestment has been filed with the state Credentials Committee or else you may be surprised when you show up at the state convention and the talking heads prevail. Do not just assume someone has done it.

 

[A Ron Paul Rebel]

Where is a list of the chairman and GOP fkups?
...Time to pay them a visit!!!

 

[Feelgood]

I posted what I thought was the name, address and phone number of one, but got no response. Since Im not 100% certain it was correct, I had asked if any was able to verify.

 

[MelissaWV]

If the challenge is won, there is no guideline stating that all RNC delegates are stripped from the state. In fact, *some* may be stripped, depending on when the violation occurs and what rules are violated. The final decision as to who gets to go to the RNC from the "oversized" pool of delegates is the state's.

I wonder which delegates would not get to go?

This will reduce the total number of delegates McCain needs to get 50%+1 (as there are fewer total delegates if some/all are stripped... so much for abstaining making as large an impact), and may also exclude some Paul delegates from the RNC altogether. Since these MO delegates signed a paper to support McCain (though they've expressed they will debate the definition of "support" and vote for Paul anyhow), their protests if excluded would likely be met with "You said you'd support McCain, so the vote is the same anyhow... you weren't... LYING to us... were you?".

Would anyone care to address that scenario?

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/states/missouri/mo-gop-rules-and-bylaws/
RULE NO. 16
Enforcement of Rules
(In Part; please read the entire section for more information)
(a) If any state or state party violates the Rules of the Republican Party relating to the timing of the selection process resulting in the election of delegates or alternate delegates to the next national convention, such state shall suffer a loss of its delegates and alternate delegates to that national convention as follows:
(1) If a state or state party violates the Rules of the Republican Party relating to the timing of the selection process resulting in the election of delegates or alternate delegates to the national convention before the call to the national convention is issued, then the number of delegates to the national convention from that state shall be reduced by fifty percent (50%), and the corresponding alternated delegates shall also be reduced.
...
(e)If a state or state party is determined to be in violation:
(1) No member of the Republican National Committee from the offending state shall be permitted to serve as a delegate or alternate delegate to the national convention.
(2) After the Republican National Committee members are excluded from being part of the offending state’s delegation to the national convention, the state party shall determine which of the state’s remaining delegates (and corresponding alternate delegates) are entitled to serve as part of the state’s reduced delegation to the national convention.
(3) In addition to the penalties provided for in paragraphs (e)(1) and (2) of this rule, the Republican National Committee Standing Committee on Rules may impose additional sanctions relating to the offending state’s hotel location at the national convention, guest privileges and VIP passes at the national convention, and seating location in the national convention hall.

In addition to the potential for "ridding itself" of offensive delegates, it appears that these sanctions can be used to move Paul supporters to a less effective seating arrangement.

Again, any comments on this?

 

[kpitcher]

What are the rules of the GOP for selecting a nominee if there are enough states in contention, and losing their delegates like possibly Louisiana, and they can't reach the magic number of delegates?

 

[Suzu]

I posted a report on the 8th District Convention if anyone's interested. We had about 1/3 Ron Paul people and got one delegate and two alternate positions.

 

[Debbie Hopper]

Melissa, the section of the rules you posted deal with the states who moved their primary dates up and how many delegates the state is penalized for doing so. It has no bearing on how we deal with the sham convention in CD 2.

We held a rump convention in CD 2, and as the rules require, Brent, the chairman elected at the rump convention, will file all the appropriate paper work within the time required. He's done it before as he was the Chairman of the St. Charles County caucus, so he knows what he's doing.

Regarding challenging the delegates that were elected at the sham convention, the process on that is a little murky and we'll get clarification tomorrow.

The section of the MO GOP rules that Pepperpete posted deals with challenging delegates TO the CD and State Convention. It does not address challenging delegates to the national convention that were chosen at the CD conventions.

According to MO GOP Call to Convention 2008

All contests of district delegates and alternates to the 2008 Republican National Convention shall be determined at the State Convention pursuant to
Rule 20 of the Republican National Committee.

RNC RULE NO. 20 says:

Contests: Resolution by States
All contests arising in any state electing district delegates by district conventions shall be decided by its state convention or, if the state convention shall not meet prior to the national convention, then by its state committee. Only contests affecting delegates elected at large shall be presented to the Republican National Committee; provided, however, if the contest regarding a district delegate arises out of the irregular or unlawful action of the state committee or state convention, the Republican National Committee may take jurisdiction thereof and hear and determine the same under the procedures provided in Rules No. 22 and No. 23.

So we know that the challenge is decided at the state convention, but we can't find any info as to when the challenge must filed, the form it must take, what needs to be included and who to file it with.

I've search the MO GOP Standing Rules and Call to Convention, the RNC Rule 15 filing from Missouri, as well as the RNC Standing Rules and Call to Convention, and can find nothing that addresses this.

Clearly, Brent filing the convention report from the rump convention we held, in itself challenges the delegates, alternates and the elector that were chosen by the sham convention, as it forces them to decide which convention was legitimate. But I still think some of disenfranchised delegates should file a seperate challenge, so that's where we're headed.

 

[Debbie Hopper]

kpitcher, there really is no magic number - a simple majority of the delegates present wins the nomination.

 

[N13]

They are afraid of our ideas.

 

[Feelgood]

Thanks Debbie. It is SO nice to see at least ONE person from the campaign here, keeping us informed on things. I for one, appreciate your input.

 

[Conza88]

They are afraid of our ideas.

They are afraid of losing power. The one party system is scared shitless, or Ron Paul.

 

[wowabunga]

I think rather than appear as rabble rousers, we should speak in a civil , calm voice, loud enough to be heard, and if they do not respond, then in just as civil a voice, announce that challenges will be forth coming and the credentials committee at the RNC will determine who's delegates will be seated.

I'm beginning to think that a "March to Branson" might be a better idea than a march to the state capitol. I'd love to be doing breakfast next to some of these neocon dinosaurs, out at night partying with them, being at their hotel later when they get back from all their fun. I'd be standing there with my flag saying "shame shame shame on YOU".

 

[hotbrownsauce]

wow, 2 great stories you guys posted

http://stlplatform.org/content/view/234/122/
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...64CF6ED868C2A80286257431000BBF84?OpenDocument

I wasn't able to contest my contested alternate status, they said I was not allowed because my name was in support of Ron Paul on his website... Wow real logic there... even though they may be right didn't mean I'd not vote for McCain.
Eh what ever... I'll be seeing what happens in Branson when I go down there.

 

[speciallyblend]

the sad part is its exciting to see this happen at this level,but i assure you the gop will axe every ron paul supporter at the state level.

 

[walter]

I really wish Ron Paul would switch over to the Constitution Party, as I know we could continue campaigning for him and I believe he would stand a better chance winning. I have listened closely every time I hear him speak of whether or not he will run other than republican

Ron Paul is a Republican Congressman, he can not now join a different party, Constitutional or Libertarian, to run third party, that is not allowed, so keep fighting in the Republican Party! Something good WILL happen! The good guy always wins in the end! Something unexpected and good will happen if we don't give up!

 

[Soccrmastr]

keep up the good fight guys

 

[scotto2008]

Like I said earlier, these requests were never fulfilled.

This is my letter to the editor.

Dear Editor,

I am 23 years old and this was my first time taking place in any type of caucus process. And today I went to the 2nd Congressional District meeting in the cafeteria of Kirkwood High School after previously being accepted as an alternate delegate. I thought I found my home in the Missouri GOP party because for the most part it is everything I believe in , less taxes, no board of education, less big government, etc,. And on April 19th at 10:40am - 11:05am I found out along with about 50 others that our Delegate / Alternate status was challenged. After a late start a man stood up to the podium and said he was the temporary chairman and soon started reading off why approximately 50 people were being kicked off their Delegate / Alternate status. Many of us had copies of "Roberts Rules of Order" that the meeting must follow. Several times motions were ignored that did not follow Roberts Rules. Several attempts were made by several people to motion such things as "point of order", "object to consideration", and "division of the assembly" . "The Chairman is out of order!" many shouted and also seconded toward the end of the meeting. During the speech they said we must wait till the end of the speech to make motions. So we waited for the end and made motions only to be shut up once again and ignored. They even took a vote to adopt kicking off the contested people from the delegate slate. The vote was very close and no count was ever taken even after stating "division of the assembly" which means an actually tally must be taken. Never once did they respond to any motions made other than to shut us up. It was planned from the beginning to be a shamble. Totally railroading everyone and turning off many republicans including my Father who has been a republican since 1972. We were ignored to the fullest with out a doubt. They didn't want us there. Many of us plan to fight back. I just want the Missourians to know how the Republicans are resorting to dirty tactics to cheat us out of our votes. This makes me wonder if I really do support the republicans.

We however did make a motion to adjourn on the biases that the chairman was out of order and the meeting was unlawful. We all said "ya" and left the room and convened in the hallway. There we had a proper meeting and decided to send our own slate of delegates to Branson for the next step. All of us will be going to Branson with our testimonies to show why the other convention was unlawful.

Sincerely,
***************


I am told by Derdy there will be a report about this tomorrow in the post dispatch because a reporter was present.

Did you send your letter yet? I've had a number of articles published in newspapers and there's a trick to it. I'd be happy to edit it for you if you want. They're going to edit it to pieces anyway.

 

[scotto2008]

That's pretty f'd up.
Time to lawyer - up. There's gotta be pro-bono's out there that would attend in some areas.

Just to play devil's advocate, can't a political party run their organization anyway they see fit? I.e. don't they make their own rules?

Someone mentioned state statutes -- is there really a legal aspect to it?

 

[leonster]

Just to play devil's advocate, can't a political party run their organization anyway they see fit? I.e. don't they make their own rules?

Someone mentioned state statutes -- is there really a legal aspect to it?

But wouldn't the rules form a certain sort of "contract"? I mean, even ignoring election laws etc... seems that rules make a "contract."

I mean... a store can (in theory anyways) run their business however they want, but they can't change things once they state them... it's kinda a what, unspoken contract? They can't post an item for $10, then silently charge your credit card $30, for example. Why? Because they posted it as $10. If there was never a posted price, just a $30 charge at the counter--that would be legal, although 99% of people would ask the price first.

Same with a group, I would think. If there are no posted rules, anything goes (pretty much). If they have rules though, they need to either follow them or change them in the manner stated in the rules.