Missouri Police Report: RP supporters, Libertarians, anti-NWO movement are TERRORISTS

[newbitech]

His statement is a to-the-point summary of libertarianism in my book. I may be overwhelmingly capable of violating someone else's right to life, liberty or property, but it is morally wrong to deprive someone of any of the above without provocation. You seem to be saying that having the ability to use force is unpeaceful. I wholeheartedly disagree.

well thats not what I am saying. what I am saying is right now and in this circumstance is probably not the best time to remind cops that we have a right and ability to use force to defend ourselves. I think that would only escalate the problem and work against the greater movement.

 

[torchbearer]

I understood what he said, I just disagree. If this were a case of the swat team laying siege to a Ron Paul supporters house with no warrant, and a bunch of us went down there with AR-15's to tell the government to back off, then yeah I agree that is the appropriate use and defense of militias.

However, we are talking about a training report that attacks basically anyone who doesn't agree with the political establishment. There is nothing violent about the report. While the implications certainly appear to be that law enforcement is preparing for such an event, I don't believe now is the time to start standing up for violently defending those rights. Its just not the time for it imo. This would be what I would consider offensive.

But again, I don't disagree with the point, I just agree more with the way this situation is being handled without highlighting the rights and duties of the militia. The militia would do well to keep a low profile here for the sake of allowing liberty to run its course.

Put on a poker face, problem solved.

 

[newbitech]

Put on a poker face, problem solved.

heh, i'm playing poker right now. But yeah that is the general sentiment that I am feeling. Play this one close to the vest. This is an obvious tell coming from the establishment. Let them feel the love, but don't flinch.

 

[pcosmar]

But again, I don't disagree with the point, I just agree more with the way this situation is being handled without highlighting the rights and duties of the militia. The militia would do well to keep a low profile here for the sake of allowing liberty to run its course.

They did that during the last witch hunt. The Patriot Movement went underground. Several were hunted down and murdered.
OKC was not done my any militia. I will repeat that.
The Oklahoma City Bombing Was NOT done by the Militia.

It was done to demonize the militia.
And it worked. People shut up about restoring the Constitution.
That is what this is about, They are about to trash things and don't want anyone rising up to say NO.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

I had never read your link, though I find it interesting.

I am not defending militias because I necessarily find them to be intrinsic to general public's liberty. I am defending militias because clearly, whoever joins one believes it intrinsic, or at least potentially intrinsic, to HIS OWN liberty. And what government ought deny a man the means to do whatever he deems necessary to secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity? Isn't that principle immortalized in some old piece of paper I read somewhere? I don't think it was a terrorist manifesto, no matter what the MIAC might have you believe.

Yes, that is why I agree with your sentiments.

I'll go out on a limb here and state my belief that most of the groups calling them selves what-not are individual members of the un-organized militia, but any use of the term "militia" exposes the group to the dangers of romanticism (and it's ever present slander.)

This is why I strongly support the CoS in my sig as the only viable path to constitutional militia (and I hope all the paintball afficiandoes among us are getting involved. There is a time and place for everything...)

I'll, also, agree the discarded institution, "necessary to the security of a free state", is being disparaged; putting us all at unnecessary risk. But I think it is a separate issue from the MIAC memo, and any response we can attempt to manage.

 

[AuH2O]

well thats not what I am saying. what I am saying is right now and in this circumstance is probably not the best time to remind cops that we have a right and ability to use force to defend ourselves. I think that would only escalate the problem and work against the greater movement.

I suppose I agree to a point about the PR implications of standing up for militias. I guess I just feel a responsibility to defend those who defend our shared values. I suppose most of these people are off the grid, and can't realistically can't voice their opposition. Isn't it Christian to speak for those without a voice?

I'm being a bit facetious, and I guess I agree to an extent, I just wish there was a voice for those who are more easily demonizable and perceived to be less defensible -- other than "Let them fend for themselves."

 

[pcosmar]

I suppose I agree to a point about the PR implications of standing up for militias. I guess I just feel a responsibility to defend those who defend our shared values. I suppose most of these people are off the grid, and can't realistically can't voice their opposition. Isn't it Christian to speak for those without a voice?

I'm being a bit facetious, and I guess I agree to an extent, I just wish there was a voice for those who are more easily demonizable and perceived to be less defensible -- other than "Let them fend for themselves."

I gladly speak up. I AM A FRIEND OF THE MILITIA
I am unarmed
I am Infringed
I know that the vast majority are as peaceful as me., and very few are the threat that the whole are made out to be.
I hope for a peaceful restoration, a peaceful revolution.
I also know from history and from experience that our enemies are not peaceful.
I want them on our side.

 

[newbitech]

They did that during the last witch hunt. The Patriot Movement went underground. Several were hunted down and murdered.
OKC was not done my any militia. I will repeat that.
The Oklahoma City Bombing Was NOT done by the Militia.

It was done to demonize the militia.
And it worked. People shut up about restoring the Constitution.
That is what this is about, They are about to trash things and don't want anyone rising up to say NO.

Speaking of OKC, I have a little story to tell about that. You all may or may not know but I have been the victim of police profiling. I know for a fact my name is in the database and the police have targeted and treated me differently because of it. I am currently under misdemeanor probation for a reduced felony charge of battery on a law enforcement officer. My brother is on felony probation for the same charge. We stood up for our rights non violently on our front porch and were attacked by the police. They turned around and fabricated a story against us.

This is not the first time my brother and I have been targetted. About a year and a half ago, we were out doing area surveys in the process of engineering a fiber optic feeder route. We were verifying public right of ways, measuring curbs, locating utilities etc.. Two county cops rolled up on us. One in front and one behind. They asked for our identification which we provided. They came back from the squad car and started acting really sketchy.

They wanted to see our company credentials. At the time, I was working for my brother so only he had the company access badge. We explained that I was still in the process of getting my badge. They then asked if we had something else to show proof of who we were. I told him that he had my id, what other kind of proof did we need? They started asking us about our job. We showed them the laptop and plats. Still not satisfied, he said that residents in the neighboorhood had made complaints about possible terrorist activity in the area.

At that point my brother and I were like oh shit man, these guys think we are casing the area for a bomb plot or something. My brother grabbed his paycheck and showed the guy that we were legit and getting paid to do this work. To this the cop replied, hey well now your talking. He said, "Sorry to bother you guys, you know we can never be too careful these days." I asked him to explain the complaint, what was the call about? He seemed annoyed but said the neighbors said there was a bearded man walking around with a suspicious object. I think he was referring to the measuring wheel.

I said hey no problem, do we look like terorist to you? To my astonishment, he replies, "Well you never can tell these days. You remember what happened in OKC right? Those guys were a bunch of white guys."

So yeah, I have come face to face with this profiling. Several times. I don't even own a gun. Trust me when I tell you its not the guns they are afraid of. Its the truth that scares them shitless.

 

[newbitech]

I suppose I agree to a point about the PR implications of standing up for militias. I guess I just feel a responsibility to defend those who defend our shared values. I suppose most of these people are off the grid, and can't realistically can't voice their opposition. Isn't it Christian to speak for those without a voice?

I'm being a bit facetious, and I guess I agree to an extent, I just wish there was a voice for those who are more easily demonizable and perceived to be less defensible -- other than "Let them fend for themselves."

Thank you for understanding. I just want to also reiterate that I understand your point and I don't disagree. I really would like to see our country really digging down to our core beliefs and opening up this dialog about militias openly and without fear of negative sentiment in the LEO community. I think once we secure the victory on this particular issue of the MIAC report, that will pave the way for more open and peaceful dialog with the police. We need that to secure our freedom. I need that to secure my freedom. Thanks for bringing this point up. It is valid and hopefully we can take this stand peacefully without having to call upon our militia friends to perform that duty. If it does come to that rest assured my loyalties are with the defenders.

 

[Liberty Rebellion]

I wrote Jay an e-mail today. I hope it gets in front of him.

"Dear Mr. Nixon,

I am a Missouri native, born in X, raised in Y (W County), and attended Z High School in X, and Y Missouri State University. You and I met, many years ago, in your office, when you were the state senator from my district, and I visited Jefferson City as a member of student government from Z. My deceased mother was well acquainted with now Sen. X, a close colleague of yours. In fact, I and my siblings just recently sold my mother's home in X County. Missouri will always be close to my heart.

Today, Mr. Nixon, I am writing to you to tell you that my home state has shamed me. A recent report published by the MIAC, part of a fusion center between the MHP and federal agencies, funded with Missouri tax dollars, casts tens of thousands of Missourians, and Millions of Americans as potential terrorists or criminals because they engage the political process outside the two major parties, support pro-liberty candidates, fly old flags, support the constitution of the United States, play paintball, or engage in strong advocacy of the 2nd Amendment. This is reprehensible, irresponsible, and does nothing to improve the security of our great home state.

I encourage you to order the MIAC to issue an apology for their recent demonization campaign and to cease all similar profiling activities. I for one will not enter Missouri again, or spend another dollar on a Missouri product or business until the Missouri law enforcement community is no longer being primed for hostility towards liberty advocates. I am not alone in my convictions.

With respect and admiration for your long and distinguished service to X County and the Great State of Missouri,

Minarchy4Sale"

Sorry, but it looks like Jay Nixon doesn't think this is such a big deal (see video in following link)

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-stlouis-news-090318-militia-report-concern.4b83e394.html

 

[pcosmar]

That's their spin. We need to respin this.
Can't wait till Our report is released.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

Sorry, but it looks like Jay Nixon doesn't think this is such a big deal (see video in following link)

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-stlouis-news-090318-militia-report-concern.4b83e394.html

Looks like Ill be staying out of Missouri until they have a new Governor who cares more about the safety of its citizens than the safety of the citizens servants. Too bad. I guess my family will have to come visit me instead.

 

[tremendoustie]

nah, I am not buying that argument.

regardless of the reason why force is being used, it is never peaceful.

I think the idea is that they are currently peaceful, because they are not being attacked. They are peaceful because they do not instigate violence, and violence is not being instigated against them, at least to a anywhere near a sufficient level to warrant a violent response.

A person can be peaceful and own a gun. He hopes he will never use it, but has it in case he needs to defend himself, at which point he might not be so peaceful.

 

[newbitech]

I think the idea is that they are currently peaceful, because they are not being attacked. They are peaceful because they do not instigate violence, and violence is not being instigated against them, at least to a anywhere near a sufficient level to warrant a violent response.

A person can be peaceful and own a gun. He hopes he will never use it, but has it in case he needs to defend himself, at which point he might not be so peaceful.

yep, i get that. So on the one side, this MIAC training report represents the threat of force by law enforcement against law abiding citizens. On the other side is threat of force by law abiding citizens in response to illegal action by law enforcement. Both sides are still well within their rights as long as the force does not actually play out. Law enforcement is warning citizens not to engage in this type of criminal activity or else and citizens are warning law enforcement to not overstep their authority or else.

One side needs to wise up and I think the liberty movement is that side. Law enforcement knows we have guns, that's why they want to take them or at least cause people to question their own motives. It is up to the liberty movement to stand firm and united and defend ourselves philosophically and intellectually first. If law enforcement decides the standing up for the truth and liberty is worth attacking with force and a usurpation of the peoples power, then I have no doubt that their violence will be met with more than just a threat of violence.

Until that time comes, I believe the people capable of forcefully defending themselves should use more peaceful ways of defending themselves including not being threatening or focusing on the right to defend themselves violently.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Whooo hooo, I'm jut getting back up to speed after my regular two week absence.

This is going to be good.

Commentary to follow.

 

[pcosmar]

Whooo hooo, I'm jut getting back up to speed after my regular two week absence.

This is going to be good.

Commentary to follow.

YAY!
Missed you. This is a nasty piece of work.
But we are responding to it.

 

[Anti Federalist]

YAY!
Missed you. This is a nasty piece of work.
But we are responding to it.

I've been getting regular satellite email updates from Mrs. AF (aka donnay) and listening to what coverage I can via shortwave.

I know everybody's on it, and rightly so.

But FFS, has everybody had enough yet?

 

[sratiug]

I've been getting regular satellite email updates from Mrs. AF (aka donnay) and listening to what coverage I can via shortwave.

I know everybody's on it, and rightly so.

But FFS, has everybody had enough yet?

+1
I don't even own a gun, but this episode is making me interested in joining a militia. I don't even think there is one around here though so I guess I'm safe. Maybe we should start a pledge drive to all join a peaceful militia if this crap is not totally retracted? I'm sure we're all on somebody's list anyway...

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

+1
I don't even own a gun, but this episode is making me interested in joining a militia. I don't even think there is one around here though so I guess I'm safe. Maybe we should start a pledge drive to all join a peaceful militia if this crap is not totally retracted? I'm sure we're all on somebody's list anyway...

Join the org in the big link in my sig. That is one of the best ways to counter this, and other, threats. First, because it just makes sense. Second is because they got a whole paragraph in the report, so an increase in membership would show TPTB that we ain't scared, and are going to continue down the lawful road of resistance to tyranny...

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Interview with Chuck Baldwin, LRP, about MIAC @ 1p est

http://kcxl.com