Missing the point - immigration

[norak]

It would probably take less than a year for our utopia to be destroyed. Millions, maybe a billion + people would descend into the country, many from countries that have never known the least bit of freedom.

How do you know for sure? Most Americans are anti-freedom anyway. That is why just about no one votes for the Libertarian Party.

Using this argument, we should deport all people who are against freedom. If someone argued that they should not be deported, the argument can be made if they are not deported, the country will become non-libertarian.

And why not believe that immigrants are more likely to cherish freedom? If they come to America they may do so because they want more freedom. They may be escaping dictatorship. When my grandparents moved to America from Europe they were escaping the tyrannical European monarchy.

Just look at our own United States and see how few percentage of the populace support Ron Paul. People will put up with anything.

A good way to fix this is to deport anyone who doesn't support Ron Paul. That'll teach them. Deport the Huckabee supporters especially. Then we block the borders and let in only Ron Paul supports from other countries. That will guarantee the preservation of freedom.

Even if you block immigration, you will still have problems when people within the country decide to turn towards socialism, and many do. Babies born to American parents may be very likely in this day and age to turn to socialism, but is that an argument for compulsory euthanasia?

In order to tinker with the minds of the people, to make them accept freedom, you are advocating socialist-style intervention.

The problem is that libertarianism and democracy don't mix. I think if individual liberty were fixed, that would be preferable. A constitution that makes it difficult for freedom to be eroded needs to be set up.

 

[Southron]

And why not believe that immigrants are more likely to cherish freedom? If they come to America they may do so because they want more freedom. They may be escaping dictatorship. When my grandparents moved to America from Europe they were escaping the tyrannical European monarchy.

Our own Declaration of Independence states that "....accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed."

Besides that, if we have completely open borders, we are open to political conquest. Already, Mexico tells its citizens to go to the United States and vote Mexican interests. While Mexico doesn't have a high enough population to conquer the US politically outright, China sure does.

Look, I'm not advocating deporting people who who want to take away our rights. I simply believe we should be very careful who we allow to vote-that's all. Voting allows you to control other peoples' lives and money. We shouldn't give that privilege out so lightly.

 

[srps2233]

Re: Free healthcare, education

If a thief steals from you and gives it to someone else, go after the thief, not the beneficiary.

Flawed analogy, I know, if you paid your taxes last year they didn't really "steal it"--you voluntarily handed them your money KNOWING where it would be going.

 

[RickSp]

The "welfare state" argument against immigration is not based on fact. Most studies show that immigrants pay more in taxes than they use in services. Even studies done by anti-immigrant groups show costs which compared the the size of the economy are relatively small.

We are still a nation of immigrants whether the xenophobes like it or not.

Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think
Eight million illegals pay Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes

Immigration's Costs -- And Benefits

Researchers disagree on illegal immigrant cost-benefit analysis

 

[norak]

I'll admit something to you. My parents were Irish. They once told me that when they came to America they received immense hardship from the mainly Anglo-Saxon population and at one point thought about moving to Australia where the population was more Celtic. We often holiday in Australia nowadays.

My parents tell me that what the Mexicans are experiencing today is no different. Xenophobia seems to happen to everyone, the Italians, the Jews, etc.

When our ancestors fled Europe they were escaping oppression from monarchy. Luckily for my ancestors America open its doors so the victims of oppression could experience freedom. This is just a personal feeling, but I would want that same treatment to be expressed to today's victims of oppression, whether they are escaping from Chinese Communism, Fascist Russia, or North Korea. If it weren't for the openness of American borders I wouldn't be here, and I'm sure about 95 per cent of Americans here wouldn't either.

Already, Mexico tells its citizens to go to the United States and vote Mexican interests. While Mexico doesn't have a high enough population to conquer the US politically outright, China sure does.

Think about it this way. Hillary Clinton telling Democrats to vote for Democrat interests is no different to ex-Chinese immigrants voting for their collective interests.

You will always have groups voting for policies that go against your beliefs.

In a dictatorship, you suppress these people through extermination, destroying roads so they cannot vote, or deporting them.

In a free country, you must let them talk and you must let them vote.

What will most likely end up happening is that these Chinese people will end up not voting for Chinese interests but instead will vote for their own individual interests. Coalitions are difficult to sustain because of individual self-interest.

 

[Truth Warrior]

How does Mexico deal with "illegal immigrants" in Mexico? We could/should take some cues from Mexico's immigration law.<IMHO>
http://www.newswithviews.com/Slagle/john18.htm