Minimum Wage?

[NaturalMystic]

Is anyone pushing for lowering minimum wage to help lower unemployment %. As a small business owner I have a hard time hiring an unskilled laborer at $8 dollars put I would consider hiring 2 at $5. Wouldn't that be a controversial campaign message! LOWER MINIMUM WAGE 2010!

 

[Kregisen]

I say get rid of minimum wage COMPLETELY

There would be literally millions more jobs available and much lower prices on goods and services to consumers.

 

[Vessol]

As much as I'd like to comletely eliminate minimum wage, that wouldn't be a position you could campaign on no matter how much logic you use.

People don't use logic when they elect someone. They only want to elect someone who will give them more materially. Even if you explain to them that it would improve the economy and create more jobs, people would just blabber on about "OMG YOU HATE POOR PEOPLE!".

 

[Kregisen]

As much as I'd like to comletely eliminate minimum wage, that wouldn't be a position you could campaign on no matter how much logic you use.

People don't use logic when they elect someone. They only want to elect someone who will give them more materially. Even if you explain to them that it would improve the economy and create more jobs, people would just blabber on about "OMG YOU HATE POOR PEOPLE!".

Half the issues you take libertarian stances on you can't compaign on. That's how fucked up the country is....

If everyone took economics there wouldn't have ever been a minimum wage to begin with. One of the worst ideas in the last century.

 

[libertybrewcity]

Minimum wage is an example of an issue that is hard to repeal once it is passed because of the "social meaning" to sheeple that don't understand economics. It would be very hard to explain to someone working at McDonalds why we want to pay them less.

 

[YumYum]

Illegal aliens work for $25-30 for a 10 hour day. Some of them a very skilled. Otherwise, I don't know how you would get someone at $5.00 an hour unless you paid them a salary.

 

[nate895]

As much as I'd like to comletely eliminate minimum wage, that wouldn't be a position you could campaign on no matter how much logic you use.

People don't use logic when they elect someone. They only want to elect someone who will give them more materially. Even if you explain to them that it would improve the economy and create more jobs, people would just blabber on about "OMG YOU HATE POOR PEOPLE!".

I am not so sure that it will not work in all situations. For instance, I was able to convince some people in my econ class that eliminating minimum wage would increase jobs and overall prosperity (even for poor people), using the crystal clear economic logic that everyone on this board understands. I did not even bring out the fact that price levels would be lower overall, either. Right now I think would be the perfect time for a debate on minimum wage in states and regions where unemployment is the highest. While debating on principle that there should be no minimum wage should be the number one priority, I think that we need to also say that a decrease in the minimum wage would show some benefits and is a good first step towards possible elimination.

 

[thehighwaymanq]

But what about that high school kid who gets a summer job and is being paid 2 dollars an hour. He'll make absolutely no money! And what if he never gets a raise, how is he supposed to make any decent money like that?

Doesnt the minimum wage somewhat protect the less skilled work force by setting that number where they cant make less?

 

[SamuraisWisdom]

Repealing the minimum wage at this point would be very difficult not just for the social aspect but for the economic one as well. Prices would not go down as fast as the cost to produce goods, so people that got pay cuts would have a VERY difficult time buying things for a while. That would hurt the economy very badly and put a lot of people in a bad situation. At this point, the best thing to do would be to just stop raising the minimum wage and keep it where it is.

 

[nate895]

But what about that high school kid who gets a summer job and is being paid 2 dollars an hour. He'll make absolutely no money! And what if he never gets a raise, how is he supposed to make any decent money like that?

Doesnt the minimum wage somewhat protect the less skilled work force by setting that number where they cant make less?

However, there are practically no jobs for those types of people right now because of the minimum wage. If we eliminated the minimum wage, then McD's could start hiring for a few bucks/hr again, and the meals would then cost less because it is cheaper to produce their products. The same goes for pretty much every low-end retail/service business. Prices can be significantly cut due to decreased costs in the factors of production for these businesses, which is where teenagers and other low-paid workers shop primarily anyway.

The primary consequence of eliminating the minimum wage will be to move a significant number of impoverished, non-working individuals into working poor status, which will increase overall societal prosperity.

 

[low preference guy]

But what about that high school kid who gets a summer job and is being paid 2 dollars an hour. He'll make absolutely no money! And what if he never gets a raise, how is he supposed to make any decent money like that?

Doesnt the minimum wage somewhat protect the less skilled work force by setting that number where they cant make less?

Suppose the minimum wage is $7. Suppose the productivity of the kid is worth $6 an hour for the company. The company can hire him for $6 an hour. Above that, they lose money. They won't hire the kid.

The effect of a $7 minimum wage is that all people whose productivity is worth less than $7 per hour won't get hired. And the people who would've been hired, even for two bucks, would've gained experience and skills to get better jobs in the future, but they cannot join the job market due to the minimum wage.

In short, the minimum wage makes it illegal for low skilled workers to get jobs. (more specifically, workers whose productivity per hour worth is below the minimum wage)

 

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Why when we can just keep extending unemployment benefits?

*common liberal response*

 

[WaltM]

im all for it

 

[nate895]

Repealing the minimum wage at this point would be very difficult not just for the social aspect but for the economic one as well. Prices would not go down as fast as the cost to produce goods, so people that got pay cuts would have a VERY difficult time buying things for a while. That would hurt the economy very badly and put a lot of people in a bad situation. At this point, the best thing to do would be to just stop raising the minimum wage and keep it where it is.

This is where a conservative libertarian approach differs from a radical libertarian one. The radical libertarian wants to have a revolution and overthrow the system overnight. The conservative understands that rapid change leads to social anarchy and total disorder that can only make things worse, not better, as per the French Revolution (out of which the modern conservative movement sprang). It is much better to stop the downward slide to socialism, and then to gradually move back into a republican commonwealth.

 

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Here is a video of Schiff discussing minimum wage, very good and insightful as to the unintended consequences to a law that is supposed to help people.

YouTube - The Minimum wage argument & SchiffForSenate.com

YouTube - American Samoa: The real story 60 Minutes missed

 

[mediahasyou]

Prices would not go down as fast as the cost to produce goods

Prove it.

 

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

But what about that high school kid who gets a summer job and is being paid 2 dollars an hour. He'll make absolutely no money! And what if he never gets a raise, how is he supposed to make any decent money like that?

Doesnt the minimum wage somewhat protect the less skilled work force by setting that number where they cant make less?

Would you work for 2 dollars an hour? Probably not I doubt anyone would. But you might bag groceries for 5 and hour, but by law a business has to pay you 7.25 so the business says "Oh well, cant afford that, Ill just make my cashiers bag groceries" and there is a job eliminated by the minimum wage. Sure, 5 bucks aint much, but your just bagging groceries. I bagged groceries in high school, now those jobs dont even exist anymore. And they wonder why teens are out selling weed and coke?

 

[Wesker1982]

abolish the minimum wage

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hornberger/hornberger180.html

 

[mediahasyou]

if wages go down far enough, people might stop looking for employment and start entrepreneurial activities, which would add goods/services to the economy, thus enhancing our standard of living.

 

[nate895]

Prove it.

That is a matter of simple economics. The product being produced at the new costs for labor will not hit the market until after the labor costs have been reduced. Similar to the reason why we have not had prices increase two or three times since the money supply has been increased by that much: That money hasn't fully hit the market yet. Otherwise, we'd already be in hyperinflation due to the upwards spiral.