Minarchy (Badnarik) vs Non-Archy (Molyneux) debate here!

[Kraig]

A variety, not all...

So which articles/podcasts are the bad ones?

 

[tremendoustie]

A dictator is no one without people willing to follow his orders.

That's the point. In a free society a would-be dictator would have to start from scratch, and not benefit from existant power structures. To create ready made power structures for ambitious and evil people is madness.

The only reason we have reached the level of tyranny we have today is because everyone has been conditioned to obey government, and to accept the notion that using it to forcibly impose one's will is acceptable -- an exception to the usual moral laws against theft and coersion.

You want to have one all powerful arbitor in all matters of law, imagining that that arbitor will be good, and will prevent would be dictators from gaining power. What you forget is that that one arbitor will attract these would be dictators as well -- and when they take it over, there will be no alternatives, no where for peaceful people to go. This is what we have today.

If people are so interested in plundering each other that private security agencies cannot work, then governments certainly cannot work, which will be run by these same plunderers, and which the good as well as the evil are forced to support.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

lol so his work just has a "religious feel" like what? any examples?

Preacher like delivery. A "we are right, everyone else is wrong, everyone needs to convert" feel. Professions of perfect logic and knowledge, while putting out some scenarios (parables) with logical errors. A complex system of beliefs. Some followers with religious fervor.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

That's the point. In a free society a would-be dictator would have to start from scratch, and not benefit from existant power structures. To create ready made power structures for ambitious and evil people is madness.

The only reason we have reached the level of tyranny we have today is because everyone has been conditioned to obey government, and to accept the notion that using it to forcibly impose one's will is acceptable -- an exception to the usual moral laws against theft and coersion.

You want to have one all powerful arbitor in all matters of law, imagining that that arbitor will be good, and will prevent would be dictators from gaining power. What you forget is that that one arbitor will attract these would be dictators as well -- and when they take it over, there will be no alternatives, no where for peaceful people to go. This is what we have today.

If people are so interested in plundering each other that private security agencies cannot work, then governments certainly cannot work, which will be run by these same plunderers, and which the good as well as the evil are forced to support.

Well said.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Preacher like delivery. A "we are right, everyone else is wrong, everyone needs to convert" feel. Professions of perfect logic and knowledge, while putting out some scenarios (parables) with logical errors. A complex system of beliefs. Some followers with religious fervor.

I've never heard him claim "perfect knowledge"-only reason and logic.

 

[Kraig]

Preacher like delivery. A "we are right, everyone else is wrong, everyone needs to convert" feel. Professions of perfect logic and knowledge, while putting out some scenarios (parables) with logical errors. A complex system of beliefs. Some followers with religious fervor.

lol so you have no examples, maybe you have an example of where he said "we are right, everyone else is wrong, everyone needs to convert", or at least something similar?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

So which articles/podcasts are the bad ones?

Good and bad in many of them. I'll try to start a list.

Here's a review of another of Stefan's podcasts:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2219688&postcount=167

 

[Kraig]

Good and bad in many of them. I'll try to start a list.

Here's a review of another of Stefan's podcasts:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2219688&postcount=167

Sounds like you just disagree with him to the point of being offended. I disagree with him on certain things too but there just seems to be a gap between what you said earlier and what you said in the linked post, the link just shows disagreements with his viewpoints, not how he is some religious fanatic running a cult.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

lol so you have no examples, maybe you have an example of where he said "we are right, everyone else is wrong, everyone needs to convert", or at least something similar?

The gist of it seems to be that we can have his vision of a perfect society, once we all turn our backs on "government". That would require converting everyone.

 

[Kraig]

The gist of it seems to be that we can have his vision of a perfect society, once we all turn our backs on "government". That would require converting everyone.

More or less, you don't have to convert everyone just a certain critical mass. It's also not a perfect society just one that is better than what we have now. Isn't that also true of the Ron Paul Revolution or any other political movement for that matter? You have to convince people to support your ideas before they can take hold, and of course the Ron Paul supporters think that their ideal society would be better than what we have now.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...not how he is some religious fanatic running a cult.

I was just pointing out some similarities, and drawing an analogy. Many people have said that Communism was/is very much like a religion too.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It's also not a perfect society just one that is better than what we have now. Isn't that also true of the Ron Paul Revolution or any other political movement for that matter? You have to convince people to support your ideas before they can take hold, and of course the Ron Paul supporters think that their ideal society would be better than what we have now.

Agreed. We are always trying to improve it, and that is a shared goal among many people.

 

[Kraig]

Agreed. We are always trying to improve it, and that is a shared goal among many people.

Well I think we all have the same goals, Stefan included, just disagreements on how to get them. I think I will make a thread to complain about some of his other stuff, so we can have some fun disagreeing with him.

 

[Conza88]

Not seeing any advocates on a STATE with a MONOPOLY on the use of VIOLENCE over a given territory?

Anyone want to defend a gang of thieves writ large? Parasites? eh? No takers?