Mike Adams: Bitcoin has failed

[FSP-Rebel]

I'm absolutely rabid and hysterical now after the recent correction that I've gone into full bore witch hunt inquisition mode and will actively work to sabotage viewers understanding of BTC by trolling ad infinitum.

fify

 

[DGambler]

When I used it 2 years ago I was in and out as fast I could be.

And good job as well because a week later it went from $35 to like $4 and then the wallet service I was using to store my bitcoins (mybitcoin) was hacked and emptied out. Lots of users had their bitcoins stolen. I was out just in time.

That's my experience with bitcoin: a lucky escape!

Why were you using an online wallet to store all your BTC? I wouldn't leave my physical wallet with my life savings laying on a park bench.

 

[itshappening]

Right. And while that continues to be true, i.e., for the foreseeable future, its value isn't going to zero.

It might not go to zero but it could go to $2, $5 or whatever. That's probably more its actual fair value of a BTC and what I paid when I used it in 2011. Everything else is hype built into the price. The explosion in 2011 was down to the Silk road being featured in Gawker. I happened to have BTC at the time and rode it up to 30$ and got out as quick as could then GOX and Mybitcoin were HACKED and it crashed to 2 bucks. This is my experience and i'm just relaying it to you. Hype from the likes of Max Kaiser and more mainstream press like the Gawker article did for it 2 years ago is behind the recent massive moves too and it will correct.

I think it's more likely to crash back down to 5$ than skyrocket.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

GOX was hacked as well around the same time as mybitcoin. I remember them having a webpage and asking users to contact them and open new accounts so they could re-sign as many bitcoins as they could to their rightful owners.

Their encryption was cracked or something and passwords leaked.

They were swamped with requests and there were lots of complaints but I think they did a good job at fixing the mess.

Do some research and you'll see my recollection is correct and my story will hold up.

This was all in the summer of 2011. I remember it like it was yesterday.

It's totally unstable and ultimately pointless.

GOX was making a lot of money. Tens of thousands a day. They're probably making hundreds of thousands a day now.

They're the only people who make money out of it apart from the drug dealers, big miners, some dealers who charge up to 10% for various services (cash in the mail used to be a popular one) and early adopters sitting on paper fortunes.

The rest are just feeding the beast and should be careful.

There was also a huge open outcry IRC channel with people taking orders and offering their paypal accounts to buy or sell BTC. They charged a fee. It was a huge cottage industry even back then in 2011. I imagine it's bigger now. Paypal were shutting down any accounts associated with BTC.

So as you can see I'm not a novice and know enough about bitcoin and I think it's just pointless for anything other than small transactions.

It's not going to change the world like the hypers would have you think.

It's too unstable and vulnerable.

Great post itshappening. +rep.

I hope the best for anyone here dealing with them. My earlier posts seems kind of harsh upon rereading. I want whoever is thinking about going in to know there are many risks and nothing is ever a sure thing. Amy got out near the top and I am happy for her. People may think you are 'hating' or I am 'hating' but honestly I'm trying to counter out that feeling that these are going to $10,000 or however high. Newbitech has some very good posts on how to trade BTC and make a few bucks. Nothing to retire on, but a good return, simply.

At the end of the day, after reading some of your posts, paladin, I apologize for calling you a snake. That was little over the top. Best of luck with your investment. Even the wording of 'ZeroCoin' seemed troublesome to me though. I truly think there will be back doors. Hollywood had a good post in that thread as well. Take heed is all I ask. I like a lot about BTC, but ultimately I do not know who is manipulating it and I cannot trust it. There are going to be people who get rich off of it. (the early investors) Those who come in late will be holding the bag. That is jmho.

 

[jj-]

It might not go to zero but it could go to $2, $5 or whatever.

That's enough to keep it alive.

 

[Petar]

It might not go to zero but it could go to $2, $5 or whatever. That's probably more its actual fair value of a BTC and what I paid when I used it in 2011. Everything else is hype built into the price. The explosion in 2011 was down to the Silk road being featured in Gawker. I happened to have BTC at the time and rode it up to 30$ and got out as quick as could then GOX and Mybitcoin were HACKED and it crashed to 2 bucks. This is my experience and i'm just relaying it to you. Hype is behind the recent massive moves too and it will correct.

I think it's more likely to crash back down to 5$ than skyrocket.

"Fair" is what it trades for on the open market (around $97 as of now).

If many more people start holding and using bitcoins, then what makes you think that it is unlikely that its open market price could go a lot higher?

 

[itshappening]

Why were you using an online wallet to store all your BTC? I wouldn't leave my physical wallet with my life savings laying on a park bench.

Because I was worried my computer would crash and i'd lose the BTC. I didn't bother with a USB stick as it wasn't that significant (only 20BTC) and only planned on using it for a few weeks!

I figured after extensive research using a wallet was the best idea and the easiest way to move them around. You just copied and pasted the address to send and receive too in the web browser rather than fiddling around with an application I also had an account on GOX and that's how I sent/received to my wallet. The Mybitcoin wallet was hacked and lots of people lost their bitcoins. GOX also got hacked and the thing crashed to 2$. There was lots of complaints but GOX fixed it. They're located in Japan I think and have a good team. they were making tens of thousands a day back then so could afford a lot of programmers!

 

[itshappening]

People who actually use BTC for a transaction are not putting their life savings in it. for me the transaction was a few hundred bucks. Big deal.

Wallet was more useful and quicker than fiddling around with an application. That's why wallets are popular (or were back then), you could pretty much send/receive instantly and you dont have to worry about losing them if your computer crashes, you can go to an internet cafe or any other computer and log in and use them!

Bank-> MT GOX -> Mybitcoin -> MT Gox -> Bank account or -> to service like 'cash in the mail' and receive cash or whatever you want to do. Do it all from a browser on any computer rather than mess with an application on just one computer.

The best way and most secure way though would be a USB stick but it's not worth going to the hassle for a few hundred bucks. if i was a merchant handling thousands or wanted to store thousands i'd do it on a USB stick,. Guess what though? I don't.

 

[itshappening]

"Fair" is what it trades for on the open market (around $97 as of now).

If many more people start holding and using bitcoins, then what makes you think that it is unlikely that its open market price could go a lot higher?

I agree with you but a lot of it is hype. SOONER OR LATER early adopters or big boys from Silk Road will convert their BTC to actual $ and start dumping them on the market and it will collapse again. This happens all the time. That's what the recent crash was likely about. These guys probably couldn't believe it hit $250 and started to unload as fast as they could. Good times.

Then you have the hackers who are breaking the wallet services and stealing BTC. They also dump huge amounts on the market and collapse it as they try and make off with the loot. That's what happened in 2011.

It will happen again and again and again. Don't use it! Or if you do keep it small like I did.

That's my honest, thoughtful advice.

 

[dusman]

Why were you using an online wallet to store all your BTC? I wouldn't leave my physical wallet with my life savings laying on a park bench.

No kidding I was actually thinking the same thing.

Sorry itshappening, but you are being quite dramatic. Bitcoin is in its infancy and by all technicality it's already "gone to the moon" for some. Your problem really boils down to your own personal perception.. trying to pass your subjective experience as something establishing objectivity.. which it is not.

I have no reason to quibble with you because I've yet to see you act obnoxious until now. It sounds like you set yourself up for failure with bad expectations and got burned by that. Happens all the time.

Nonetheless, I myself still think right now Gold and Silver is the smart buy, but I am setting aside a small fraction of my investment capital to put into Bitcoin... not because I think its stable or some miracle technology. It is a flawed concept (just as all forms of currency are), that has a ton of upside once it, and if, it gets past its infancy. Not much different than investing venture capital in a start up, honestly.

At this point, investing in Bitcoin might be wiser than holding ANY FRNs. At least Bitcoin has the potential of some upside, whereas FRNs IS dead and dying.

Step out of your little "poor me" bubble for a second and recognize Bitcoin for what it is - a revolutionary concept of money that could very well lead to the dismantling of our world's economic oligarchy. It might not be in 10 years or 50 years... nor might it be Bitcoin in this regard, but something inspired by it. So, please keep an open mind and realize we are dealing with a disruptive technology above all and with that comes many other innovations that will be far superior to Bitcoin in its present form.

 

[dusman]

People who actually use BTC for a transaction are not putting their life savings in it. for me the transaction was a few hundred bucks. Big deal.

Wallet was more useful and quicker than fiddling around with an application. That's why wallets are popular (or were back then), you could pretty much send/receive instantly and you dont have to worry about losing them if your computer crashes, you can go to an internet cafe or any other computer and log in and use them!

Bank-> MT GOX -> Mybitcoin -> MT Gox -> Bank account or -> to service like 'cash in the mail' and receive cash or whatever you want to do. Do it all from a browser on any computer rather than mess with an application on just one computer.

The best way and most secure way though would be a USB stick but it's not worth going to the hassle for a few hundred bucks. if i was a merchant handling thousands or wanted to store thousands i'd do it on a USB stick,. Guess what though? I don't.

What hassle? It's trivial to establish Bitcoin on USB stick.

 

[itshappening]

To understand bitcoin you have to understand it's primary use and its primary use is SILK ROAD. And has been for 3 years. They're using it for its most perfect use. It's of no use to a real, actual business or legal merchant because of the wild swings and unpredictability. Only a drug dealer would put up with it and tolerate the instability because they have no other options available to them and its convenient even with it swinging all over the place. This won't change any time soon.

If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC. There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it. In the real world they just operate in cash.

 

[Petar]

I agree with you but a lot of it is hype. SOONER OR LATER early adopters or big boys from Silk Road will convert their BTC to actual $ and it will collapse again. This happens all the time.

Ok, so when early adopters cash out and cause the market to crash, then what makes you think that an eventual rebound is impossible?

And as the early adopters get cycled out of the market, along with wider adoption, doesn't that also suggest eventual price stability?

 

[jj-]

To understand bitcoin you have to understand it's primary use and its primary use is SILK ROAD. And has been for 3 years. They're using it for its most perfect use. It's of no use to a real, actual business or legal merchant because of the wild swings and unpredictability. Only a drug dealer would put up with it and tolerate the instability because they have no other options available to them and its convenient even with it swinging all over the place. This won't change any time soon.

Read some Mises, train your econ-thinking neurons, and then come back to talk about it. You're clueless when it comes to economics, absolutely clueless, especially on money.

 

[itshappening]

Clueless How ?

If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC. There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it. In the real world they just operate in cash.

Bitcoins primary use is silk road and that's it. Has been for 3 years.

This is fact. Don't like it? Oh well.

 

[jj-]

Clueless How ?

If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC. There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it. In the real world they just operate in cash.

Bitcoins primary use is silk road and that's it. Has been for 3 years.

This is fact. Don't like it? Oh well.

Because the facts you already recognized in this post imply that it will be used to more things than buying from Silk Road, but you can't make the connections.

 

[itshappening]

Because the facts you already recognized in this post imply that it will be used to more things than buying from Silk Road, but you can't make the connections.

it CAN be but whats the point? if your a legit business you have a bank account, you have a merchant account and you already happily take custom.

Why on earth would you need BTC? why would you put up with the swinging and crazy market? why would you risk thousands tied up for days and weeks at a time after 2 massive crashes in 2 years which on both occasions reduced them to a third of their value? want two thirds of your stash to vanish? Use BTC!

And what has this got to do with Mises? It is just logic. Think about it.

 

[itshappening]

Ok, so when early adopters cash out and cause the market to crash, then what makes you think that an eventual rebound is impossible?

And as the early adopters get cycled out of the market, along with wider adoption, doesn't that also suggest eventual price stability?

There's about 20 people who have thousands and thousands of bitcoins from 2009 when they were 2 cents. When it goes up they dump. Silk road merchants also dump. Hackers and thieves dump. Miners dump. This is why it's unstable. There's also the possibility of central banks involved to manipulate it. I dont doubt that but I think it's more likely these 20 people dumping and the silk road merchants as they're the only people who have a lot of money tied up all the time and they look for opportunites to exit the market. All the hype from Max Kaiser and co is most welcome to them. and that's why they saw it hit 250 and unloaded like crazy. In 2011 it was the hackers trying to make off with the loot from mybitcoin and MT Gox accounts.

I don't see how you can suggest its a good investment when its subject to all this instability. Who knows how it will go over time when the insiderrs have dumped all their bitcoins but it's going to keep crashing , going up, crash, go up , etc etc. what's the point? I dont want any part of it. Only maybe if i wanted a gram of coke, then i'd buy one bitcoin, risk 80 bucks and head on over to the SILK ROAD but i dont want any coke.

 

[dusman]

Clueless How ?

If a drug dealer wants to sell on the internet he or she goes on Silk Road and takes BTC. There is NO other safe or viable choice and if that means putting up with the rollercoaster that is the BTC market then so be it. In the real world they just operate in cash.

Bitcoins primary use is silk road and that's it. Has been for 3 years.

This is fact. Don't like it? Oh well.

Well in ways you answered your own question. From the outside, I would call it clueless too. Mainly because you refuse to associate any other value to Bitcoin, other than drug trafficking. Common man, that is either entirely naive or pure bitterness. So the question is.. did you just reach the conclusion recently that Bitcoin's only value is for buying drugs or was that your commonly held belief from the start? If the former... I believe you are intelligent enough (after all you are here, so I assume you are of more intellect than most by default) to know better and are letting your bitterness get the best of you. If the latter, then you could be... well a drug dealer, lol.

My point is you initially got into Bitcoin for reasons you haven't revealed yet. Since I highly doubt it was for buying drugs, I have to ask what did you see then in Bitcoin that you refuse to see now? Are your new conclusions valid and based on some objective analysis of the technology or are you simply letting your experience cloud your judgment? Are those reasons you bought Bitcoin in the first place somehow invalid now?

I just don't understand, I suppose. To me the only conclusion is you might have simply gotten into Bitcoin for naive reasons and are opposing it for similar naive reasons. Not to talk shit to you or anything of the sort, but I'd shut up right now if you directed your passion against the Dollar instead.. because after all you would be correct to say that it is DEAD and no one here would be calling you clueless.

Cheers.

 

[fj45lvr]

I can't figure out for the life of me why people would ever trust a computer based "currency"...LOL some people are gluttons for punishment, DARWIN factor at work I guess