Mexicans Leaving the U.S. Vowing Never to Return

Learn to compete in the market, that is a failure of today.

Get rid of the handouts to the illegal aliens and then we'll talk. Until then, our own people come first. That's the thing about having a sovereign nation and immigration laws and if they want to come to our country, they need to follow our laws.

I wish the Mexicans well, but illegals need to stay in their own country and get their own government in shape. Just like we need to do ours. We have no need to take on their problems too and certainly not subsidization of their poor.
 
Get rid of the handouts to the illegal aliens and then we'll talk. Until then, our own people come first. That's the thing about having a sovereign nation and immigration laws and if they want to come to our country, they need to follow our laws.

I wish the Mexicans well, but illegals need to stay in their own country and get their own government in shape. Just like we need to do ours. We have no need to take on their problems too and certainly not subsidization of their poor.

Exactly so.

Having lived in Beverly Hills for 25 years, and having been in upscale West Los Angeles for more than 30, I can declare with certainty that an overwhelming majority of Latino domestic help -- housekeeping, childcare and gardening -- are comprised of Undocumented Workers who are paid cash under the table. A veritable Treasure Trove of fines and penalties, did not our Political Elite cater to our Moneyed Elite.

In any case -- not least because wealthy Westside families go to Hawaii, the Caribbean, Vail, Aspen, Telluride, Park City, Snowbird et al. for the holidays -- undocumented domestic labor goes "home" by the busloads AND PLANE LOADS over Christmas.

Driving from Los Angeles to San Francisco before Christmas, I re-fueled at a Truck Stop -- as is my habit whenever feasible, since becoming acclimated to the Flying J while in Des Moines for the sham Iowa Caucuses. Still having a little better than half a tank, I gave the clerk inside "twenty dollars on pump" whatever. Imagine my surprise, when I had to go back inside to retrieve a buck-something in change.

Which is not at all the point of the story but I've decided that, since I get criticized whether I write too elaborately or too cryptically, I'll just write however I feel like. I maintain that I am more libertarian than many espoused Libertarians.

In any case, because I roll alone -- and because I am on a quest to connect the dots that make up the picture of America Purloined -- I am often included in, and oftener overhear, some pretty remarkable conversations. This day, I heard that a posse of conscientiously objecting ( they didn't use that phrase, I believe it was PISSED OFF), free-wheeling (they didn't use that term, I believe it was UNEMPLOYED) Minuteman surrogates (that wasn't the name they used, I believe it was VIGILANTES) means to "help" at the border, when all those Undocumented Workers mean to return to arguably cushy jobs at some of the priciest pieces of real estate in oh-so-broke California. Undocumented cash-under-the-table Workers do NOT pay into the system from which their many dependents benefit at Taxpayer expense.

Can anyone corroborate?
 
I am still trying to figure out what "act like Americans" means. The problem that I keep having with this immigration issue is just this: We are all immigrants to this country. It seems that now that our families are here and "integrated into the american culture" that we want to close the gate. Kind of a snooze you loose mentality. I disagree. I think immigration and cultural diversity are good for America. Government welfare, on the other hand, is not.
 
Get rid of the handouts to the illegal aliens and then we'll talk. Until then, our own people come first. That's the thing about having a sovereign nation and immigration laws and if they want to come to our country, they need to follow our laws.

I wish the Mexicans well, but illegals need to stay in their own country and get their own government in shape. Just like we need to do ours. We have no need to take on their problems too and certainly not subsidization of their poor.

I agree, but you can't honestly say that every illegal is on a handout.
 
I am still trying to figure out what "act like Americans" means. The problem that I keep having with this immigration issue is just this: We are all immigrants to this country. It seems that now that our families are here and "integrated into the american culture" that we want to close the gate. Kind of a snooze you loose mentality. I disagree. I think immigration and cultural diversity are good for America. Government welfare, on the other hand, is not.

We don't mind immigration, it's the illegal immigration we object to.
 
I am still trying to figure out what "act like Americans" means. The problem that I keep having with this immigration issue is just this: We are all immigrants to this country. It seems that now that our families are here and "integrated into the american culture" that we want to close the gate. Kind of a snooze you loose mentality. I disagree. I think immigration and cultural diversity are good for America. Government welfare, on the other hand, is not.

My family came here legally. They also came here before the welfare system existed.

About 50% of immigrants to America used to go back home because they couldn't make it here. Now they just apply for emergency benefits.

Nobody wants to completely close the borders (except maybe Pat Buchanan and Tom Tancredo.) But the unfettered immigration is partially responsible for this crisis that we're in. Too much labor driving wages down, with too many people driving housing prices up.
 
Who made it illegal?


That doesn't even matter and you're being silly. Grow up and face some facts already. It is illegal. Every country in the world has immigration policies. Deal with it or crawl into your anarchist cave.

If nothing was illegal and we had totally free trade and nobody had to pay into the welfare system, unicorns and bunnies could rule America and we would all be rich without ever working.

BUt that's not how it works. American corporations brought in millions and millions of cheap laborers to drive Wall Street profits up and wages for the middle class down.

Send their sorry asses back home.
 
Cheapseats - I have a gas station story.. I was filling up at the gas station today and noticed a fairly new Ford F250 extended cab with nice chrome rims. The back of the truck was loaded down with washer, dryer, the entire contents of a small apartment or house. There was a woman and some young kids hanging out around the truck and the thought occurred to me - what if they're leaving and will cross the border in a few days... will they come back? .. is all that stuff paid for? .. if it's not all paid for will US companies ever see a dime of the money owed to them?

For all I know the family was just moving, but the likelihood that they're going to cross the border and not return is pretty high seeing as how much of the construction industry in NC is very near to being shuttered.
 
Can anyone corroborate?

No, because I am not quite sure what you just said. I think that you said while you stopped to buy $18.xx in gas, you overheard some Mexicans crabbing about some minutemen patrols. Also that people in upper class California neighborhoods hire illegals and do not pay employer taxes.

Is that right?
 
Who made it illegal?

The clowns who crossed the border without a visa did something illegal. Most people who wish to immigrate come here with a visa and worked hard to get one. Why should somebody who wants to cheat and cross the border without a visa be allowed to do so? Heck, when I brought a horse back from Mexico, I had to go through all of the red tape just to get him through customs. I could have just had somebody swim him across the river and not had to pay the $1000 to the veterinarians on both sides of the border to get him into this country.
 
Yep, and yours too. We have laws and until we don't, you will just have to live with it. It's not like you are going to stop us from having laws by wishing we didn't. If you disagree with the laws, perhaps you can lobby congress to change them. LOL
 
My congressman is aware of my feelings about immigration. Somehow I still connect the poor immigrant to the american dream. Current laws are designed to inhibit immigration of the poor. Consequently, we have the illegal immigrant, who is still willing to buck all the odds to achieve a better life. This is someone I choose to defend. Sorry if that offends you.
 
Cheapseats - I have a gas station story.. I was filling up at the gas station today and noticed a fairly new Ford F250 extended cab with nice chrome rims. The back of the truck was loaded down with washer, dryer, the entire contents of a small apartment or house. There was a woman and some young kids hanging out around the truck and the thought occurred to me - what if they're leaving and will cross the border in a few days... will they come back? .. is all that stuff paid for? .. if it's not all paid for will US companies ever see a dime of the money owed to them?

For all I know the family was just moving, but the likelihood that they're going to cross the border and not return is pretty high seeing as how much of the construction industry in NC is very near to being shuttered.

Quite irrespective of the deep shit we're in -- nevermind the defaults, nevermind the foreclosures, nevermind the credit crisis, nevermind the bailouts nevermind the toxic "assets" -- in fact, in tandem with the whole ECONOMIC CRISIS, there were the same same enticing ads splashed all over the TV, radio, newspaper, billboards and internet.

CREDIT APPROVED IN MINUTES!

CALL TODAY FOR A SIGNATURE CARD!

NO INTEREST OR PAYMENTS UNTIL MARCH OF 2009!

NO INTEREST OR PAYMENTS UNTIL 2010!!

Shop 'til we drop.

Like bleedin' barkers outside gift shops on the Titanic.

I don't wanna hear even ONE retailer come whining for Bailout Bucks if/when X percent of those High Pressure A La Madison Avenue sales turn out to be "bad loans."
 
I am still trying to figure out what "act like Americans" means. The problem that I keep having with this immigration issue is just this: We are all immigrants to this country. It seems that now that our families are here and "integrated into the american culture" that we want to close the gate. Kind of a snooze you loose mentality.

Upscale Americans are pretty well known for not wanting others to "catch up" with them. The Elite out in Malibu? I believe they'd pay for an Elevated Highway One to be built right over the existing Coast Highway, if we'd let them -- yes, indeedy, I believe Malibu Residents would prohibit anyone who is not a Malibu Resident from even driving through Malibu, if they could.

Check out Lafayette Park or Carthay Circle in L.A. -- Lafayette Park, in particular -- they outright barricade and fence off the roads through their enclaves. Me, I was thinking those roads were public.


I think immigration and cultural diversity are good for America.

Know when to say when.

When I am lucky enough to travel outside of America, just about the last thing I want to run into is a big heaping dose of All Things American. It is more than convenient, it is comforting to be able to go to so many countries and find SOMEONE who speaks English, but I do NOT particularly want to find McDonalds, The Gap, Banana Republic, Tiffany's, Chanel, Burger King, Niketown and Pizza Hut.

A certain amount of diversity is good, of course. For those who subscribe to it, I've got news for you -- besides being creepy, the Aryan Race thing isn't practical. A hundred years down the road, you're grandchildren's children will want a little more pigment in their skin. The Aryan Race of legend would fry.

Homogeneity, thy other name is Boring.

HOWEVER, comma, who died and said that WE have to be the "Melting Pot"? I watch KENYANS and FRENCH celebrate the election of an American president who is so far afield as to have his ELIGIBILITY in question, and I'm supposed to feel better about that? Why? Because Kenya and France always come to my country's aid when, as now, my country is in a bind?

Will Kenya welcome a half-American into THEIR government? Do we find France weaving American, Mexican and Zimbabwean influences into the fabric of Parisian culture? I think not.

American Culture was cool. It wasn't just for crap jobs that people came here. They dug the Rock 'n Roll, too, and the Levi's. Burgers and shakes, popcorn and movies. The age-old battle between "upwardly mobile" parents and their rebellious teenagers who will turn out to be more like their parents than their parents. When I want to celebrate Cinco De Mayo, I'll go to Mexico. I don't dig it, that people march waving flags from other countries while demanding taxpayer-funded benefits in mine.

Like I said, I am abidingly appreciative on the English thing but I surely don't expect the other countries to which I travel to help me out financially. If we don't get our shit together and pull something out of a hat pretty quick, I'm outta here. I haven't decided where to go but, I'm not gonna lie, it'll suit me just fine if it has Socialized Medicine. Beyond that? I expect my adoptive country to pretty much do NOTHING for me but accept me, and my taxes.



Government welfare, on the other hand, is not.

Welfare is riddled with Moral Hazards -- just shot through and through. MORAL HAZARDS, plural, and EXORBITANT EXPENSE are my objections. That seems so obvious, right? But it isn't, entirely.

See, if we were rolling in dough, I wouldn't care that much about the Expense. I don't WANT ill-fed, ill-clad, ignorant people running around -- that ISN'T an esteemed aspect of American Culture. If we were rolling in dough like Saudi Princes, what do I care about the Petty Schemers? Life is short, y'know? The Moral Hazard angle is theirs and the Crooked Bureaucrats to sort out with their God, yes?

But we are NOT rolling in dough. We are REELING -- teetering on Calamity, in point of fact.

SOMETIMES THE RIGHT ANSWER IS
TOUGH SHIT, WE CAN'T AFFORD IT

America is in economic free-fall. The FIRST responsibility of American Government is to American citizens.

Sometimes you gotta lighten the load. Benefits To Illegals are like the piano that gets tossed from the struggling helicopter at the conclusion of Hot Shots Part Deux -- totally ridiculous, but it's gotta go. Totally ridiculous that we went from being the penultimate economic powerhouse to not being able to afford stuff like food stamps and lunches for elementary school children, but there you have it.
 
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I will never support government benefits (welfare) to anyone, legal or illegal. Not government work in my opinion. It debases the receivers.
I agree with your post entirely.
 
Mexicans leaving bilingual, retirement-ready, contemptuous

I want our Illegals to go yesterday. I saw an Illegal that I knew from school working in a fast food place; I haven't a clue whose SS number the individual was using.

I like most of the Mexicans. Many work hard. Others appear to work hard. Some act respectful, but none here illegally actually respects us. We are only a means to an end for them, ultimately.

I taught ESL (English as a Second Language). The Illegals did not pay one cent for their instruction. Even as an employee of the state-supported college, I had to pay if I took Spanish, or any other course.

One of my acquaintances told me that, at age 42, he could go back to Mexico now and retire with his family (total 6 persons, only one of whom, the baby, is here legally). My parents are both in their 90's, still paying property taxes, food taxes, phone taxes, satellite taxes, electricity taxes, second-hand store sales taxes, gasoline taxes, etc. I have to be with them around the clock, and have to make arrangements for a friend to stay so I can even go to the grocery store. They get only Medicare to relieve the high costs; as a family caregiver, I get nothing except advice. The moral is: Responsible behavior on the part of a US citizen elicits punishment and abandonment. Selfish behavior on the part of an Illegal earns rewards. :eek:
 
I will never support government benefits (welfare) to anyone, legal or illegal. Not government work in my opinion. It debases the receivers.

The Culture of Welfare that we have not only DOES debase the receivers, I believe it is INTENDED to keep them docile and dependent.

That said, I believe that there are some limited Social Services that ARE legitimately relegated to Government, and I'll give you an example. I get the impression that a fair number of posters live in small towns or even semi-rural areas. At the moment, I am staying in an upscale bedroom community in Northern California's East Bay. Suburbs are like a narcotic to me, and I am NOT talking uppers. Not a homeless person in sight. Not a beggar. Not a runaway. Not a street walker. Not a transvestite. Not a creepy sleazeball lurking near the school. Nada.

I live in Los Angeles, and I am here to attest that Ronald Reagan ultimately did not save taxpayers a DIME -- rather, COST us untold dollars -- by closing down the asylums and turning the Nut-Period-Case-Periods out onto the street.

I don't know whether it's one per state at state expense, or whether it's regional facilities at federal expense -- I don't care, that's just crunching numbers, it's all taxpayer money -- but we have GOT to have bins into which to put the Loonies. Some people are just plain Crazy. People like to talk about the Sanctity of Life, when there is no practical application in their own lives. HAVE THAT BABY, GODDAMN IT. But no orphanages? How is THAT reconciled?

Sanctity of Life, if it has any meaning at all, surely entails Dignity of Life. It is beyond undignified, it is beyond unseemly, it is unChristian that we turn a blind eye to some of the Walking Talking Real People who are mad as hatters, fending for themselves on brutal streets.

Here's one thing I've learned about Rules -- almost NONE of 'em are hard and fast. Hence, never say never.

Which is NOT to say that EVERYTHING is gray. Some things ARE definitive.



I agree with your post entirely.

Except I left something super important out, or maybe it was implied by "rolling in dough."

There is NO DOUBT that the steady influx of illegal immigrants constitutes an erosion of wages for American Labor. That it is PERMITTED -- year after year after year after year after year -- is UNQUESTIONABLY by design for that very reason. They could have built a fence out of LEGOS by now, am I right? Fences are creepy? Okay, fine. Cameras, crop dusters, whatever. It's the old 'if we can put a man on the moon' thing. If we can put a missile through a specific window of a specific building in a country half a world away, I'm pretty sure that Border Security isn't that daunting of a prospect.

If it is, then we had better get candid quick and know that, for all the hooting and hollering and syphoning and spending, and inconveniencing US, We The People apparently have basically zero national security against the Terrorist Threat with which we are continually assaulted.
 
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I suppose the battle for wages can only be fixed by fixing the economy itself. Until then, it doesn't seem like competing for a job with someone who cannot speak the language and has no education would not be much competition.
As for protecting the borders, tptb don't want to and that brings to mind some conspiracy theories.
 
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