McCain Wasn't Lying Exactly...

[john_anderson_ii]

He said the "troops" told him "we want to win" while he was in Iraq, and I believe him. They probably did tell him this very thing no matter what they actually thought on the subject.

If you find yourself needing to respond to this argument, here's two points bring up.

1.) McCain said "troops". How much time do you think a U.S. Senator spent with "troops" (E-5 and below)? How much time do you think he spent with company grade officers or higher? I can tell you he probably spent 98% of his time surrounded by "yes" men officers, and little to no time addressing real troops with the exception of photo ops.

2.) I don't envy how long these troops had to stand in formation and get lectured on how they were going to interact with the Senator. I've stood in formation a 15 minute lecture on "conduct" for a simple battalion commander inspection and a 20 minute lecture before a general arrived to "check on his troops". I'm glad I never had a Senator want to check on my health and comfort while I was in the military. I can't imagine what that formation would have been like.

His whole visit to Iraq was what we Marines call a Dog and Pony show. Treat 'em real nice, make 'em smile, and then hand 'em over to the officers for tea and crumpets so we can get back to work.

So yes, it's quite likely that everyone in Iraq told him exactly what he wanted to hear.

 

[synapz]

E5 army vet here. Seconded.

 

[Matthew Zak]

I'm sure he wasn't lying. I'm also sure the troops wouldn't dare express anything that could cause low moral while in combat. They'll do and say any and everything patriotic to make their experience as easy as possible in the desert, right? Their lives are at stake for who-knows-what reasons... they don't need to hang their heads lower than they already have to.

I don't think McCain was lying. I'm sure they want to win. I'm sure some of them are still feeling very patriotic, in the "liberate the Iraqi's" sense of the word.

 

[logolepsy]

E-4 Marine Corps, 6-yrs. You nailed it right on the head.

 

[RJB]

former Marine SGT. I agree.

 

[Stealth]

Well, I was in Iraq, and we had senators show up to our Marine regiment in Fallujah after the major operation over there. The troops are there to accomplish the mission. That's first priority. Sure, there are Marines that are sick and tired of being there, and want to be with their family. There is no place for dissent among the ranks though. It is unprofessional and un-military like. So it doesn't matter if he hung out and met up with E-5s and below he wouldn't get much of a display from the troops wanting to go home.

Former 5/11 Marine Sgt

 

[MsDoodahs]

I have a question I would like to ask the vets off board via PM. If any of you are willing to at least listen to my question, please PM me.

Thanks (and sorry for interrupting your thread, JAii)

 

[foofighter20x]

Active duty USAF E-6...

Nothing but truth in the original post.

 

[louisiana4liberty]

You're right on the money. I'm a Navy vet and the preparations for Admiral visits were unbelievable to me. My division commanders were YES men too. Even the Admirals didn't get a clear picture of the morale and welfare of our units. I can only imagine how pretty the pictures are painted for these Senators.

Sadly, I'm reminded of Rumsfeld being asked by an NCO for basic armor and defensive equipment for our comrads in Iraq. That was one sad day for America.

 

[Searching 4 the sound]

I posted this under a different topic, but I think it's appropriate here.

McCain in lastnights debate used 2 words that raised a question that should be Dr Paul's response to McCains absurd statement. The 2 words were "win" and "surrender". Question - win or surrender who do we treaty?

The military role in war is to secure the battlefield. Heads of State negotiate treaties.

Our military secured the battlefield all the way to Saddams palace in Baghdad. Did they not win the war?

George Bush landed on the aircraft carrier Lincoln and announced "mission accomplished". Does'nt that mean our troops won the war?

Our military captured the enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien. Does'nt that mean they won the war?

Iraqi's held elections and established a new government. Is the war won yet?

The enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien was executed. Can we come home now?

How can our troops not "win this thing" without surrender? How do we surrender when there is'nt anyone to surrender to? If the only authority we could surrender to has been executed and replaced by a new government yet our troops remain on the battlefield does'nt logic dictate that our troops won the war and have been abandoned on the battlefield by our own government?

Y'all understand what I'm saying?

 

[andrewss]

I posted this under a different topic, but I think it's appropriate here.

McCain in lastnights debate used 2 words that raised a question that should be Dr Paul's response to McCains absurd statement. The 2 words were "win" and "surrender". Question - win or surrender who do we treaty?

The military role in war is to secure the battlefield. Heads of State negotiate treaties.

Our military secured the battlefield all the way to Saddams palace in Baghdad. Did they not win the war?

George Bush landed on the aircraft carrier Lincoln and announced "mission accomplished". Does'nt that mean our troops won the war?

Our military captured the enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien. Does'nt that mean they won the war?

Iraqi's held elections and established a new government. Is the war won yet?

The enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien was executed. Can we come home now?

How can our troops not "win this thing" without surrender? How do we surrender when there is'nt anyone to surrender to? If the only authority we could surrender to has been executed and replaced by a new government yet our troops remain on the battlefield does'nt logic dictate that our troops won the war and have been abandoned on the battlefield by our own government?

Y'all understand what I'm saying?

Good post, a point I have to say I hadn't really thought of that much... nice post

 

[Paulitician]

Who said he was lying? What Ron Paul said is that he distorted the issue, as, of course, it was purely anecdotal.

Oh, and thanks for the info. I would have never thought about that, but it's something I would expect

 

[JaylieWoW]

I posted this under a different topic, but I think it's appropriate here.

McCain in lastnights debate used 2 words that raised a question that should be Dr Paul's response to McCains absurd statement. The 2 words were "win" and "surrender". Question - win or surrender who do we treaty?

The military role in war is to secure the battlefield. Heads of State negotiate treaties.

Our military secured the battlefield all the way to Saddams palace in Baghdad. Did they not win the war?

George Bush landed on the aircraft carrier Lincoln and announced "mission accomplished". Does'nt that mean our troops won the war?

Our military captured the enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien. Does'nt that mean they won the war?

Iraqi's held elections and established a new government. Is the war won yet?

The enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien was executed. Can we come home now?

How can our troops not "win this thing" without surrender? How do we surrender when there is'nt anyone to surrender to? If the only authority we could surrender to has been executed and replaced by a new government yet our troops remain on the battlefield does'nt logic dictate that our troops won the war and have been abandoned on the battlefield by our own government?

Y'all understand what I'm saying?

I'll second the post about never having thought of it this way before. Good post!

 

[lemnad]

I agree if you ever gave a politician or a high ranking officer a "real' answer your ass is grass. This war is a big part of the reason I got out after 14 years. That and the lack of concern by most American citizens that they were lied too, to justify going into Iraq.

 

[SrA_Brown]

agreed sir!

Just to reiterate, the same is true in the Air Force. Whenever a bigwig comes to town, everybody starch your uniforms and put on your happy face. Tell em that everything is going great, no matter how much fraud waste and abuse you see happening everyday. Of course the troops that McCain met with said that, they were hand picked to make him feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[tropicangela]

How can our troops not "win this thing" without surrender? How do we surrender when there is'nt anyone to surrender to? If the only authority we could surrender to has been executed and replaced by a new government yet our troops remain on the battlefield does'nt logic dictate that our troops won the war and have been abandoned on the battlefield by our own government?

Well said!

 

[thomj76]

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst052107.htm


This was the first Texas Straight Talk I received. It hits the nail on the head.

 

[RickNHouston]

I posted this under a different topic, but I think it's appropriate here.

McCain in lastnights debate used 2 words that raised a question that should be Dr Paul's response to McCains absurd statement. The 2 words were "win" and "surrender". Question - win or surrender who do we treaty?

The military role in war is to secure the battlefield. Heads of State negotiate treaties.

Our military secured the battlefield all the way to Saddams palace in Baghdad. Did they not win the war?

George Bush landed on the aircraft carrier Lincoln and announced "mission accomplished". Does'nt that mean our troops won the war?

Our military captured the enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien. Does'nt that mean they won the war?

Iraqi's held elections and established a new government. Is the war won yet?

The enemies executive military commander Saddam Hussien was executed. Can we come home now?

How can our troops not "win this thing" without surrender? How do we surrender when there is'nt anyone to surrender to? If the only authority we could surrender to has been executed and replaced by a new government yet our troops remain on the battlefield does'nt logic dictate that our troops won the war and have been abandoned on the battlefield by our own government?

Y'all understand what I'm saying?

I understand and agree completely~

 

[lasenorita]

Insightful post, Searching 4 the sound.

I'm thankful that the men and women in our military have the courage and honor to keep their promise to uphold the Constitution and protect their fellow Americans with their lives. They've done the job they were asked to do in Iraq admirably. They've protected us, and continue to protect us ...when are we going to start protecting them? When are we going to start standing up for their rights and protecting our military from the dangerous agendas of misguided politicians and powerful special interests?

 

[TexicanLady]

Visiting the troops doesn't give McCain any right to attack Ron Paul the way he did. It made McCain look petty and I am glad that Ron Paul stood up to him. I wish RP would have gotten a full 30 seconds to answer the attack.

I was a military dependent and some of what you guys are talking about. Sometimes the brass forgot that us peons (wives) were standing in the shadows when they addressed the troops.