McCain and Graham Stand With Rand; Reverse Egypt Aid Position

[Kotin]

I know why Mace and Bright are using that line of attack... but can we all agree on this forum that it doesn't really make a difference whether they burn our flag or not?

Correct. That is obviously a "hot button" word used to evoke emotion instead of rational and critical thought.


I wouldn't phrase it that way but it works..

I would more emphasize the fact that we have armed both sides of countless conflicts to everyone's misfortune and we need to stop stealing from Americans and giving it to dictators to murder their citizens. It is fucking bullshit.

Who gives a fuck about a flag.. The same flag the soldiers fly in Iraq and Afghanistan?? The same flag probably printed somewhere on the drones over Yemen? Fuck it.

 

[fr33]

The establishment appears to support Rand now. What is going on here? We need to talk about this. Something is rotten in Denmark.

Don't get too comfortable

 

[specsaregood]

I know why Mace and Bright are using that line of attack... but can we all agree on this forum that it doesn't really make a difference whether they burn our flag or not?

I disagree. The burning of the flag represents the idea that the people of those countries don't even want our aid. That's part of rand's talking points and its an important part. One can see it as punishing them for burning flag if one chooses, but I choose to see it like Rand in that we are forcing our money on those that don't want it.

 

[lib3rtarian]

I know why Mace and Bright are using that line of attack... but can we all agree on this forum that it doesn't really make a difference whether they burn our flag or not?

There are 3 good reasons against our FP:

1) Moral one - you just don't go bomb other innocent people.
2) Economic one - we are broke and don't have the money for all these bombs.
3) National Security one - when you bomb one innocent dude, his friends and family turn against you and become terrorists.

Since the average American is dumb is enough to understand any or all of the above, I'll settle for the Foreign Policy for Dummies edition - "Don't send our tax dollars to countries that burn our flag.", if it'll help our cause.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I disagree. The burning of the flag represents the idea that the people of those countries don't even want our aid. That's part of rand's talking points and its an important part. One can see it as punishing them for burning flag if one chooses, but I choose to see it like Rand in that we are forcing our money on those that don't want it.

I can understand that, but I still don't care. America is evil and I see nothing wrong with lighting her flag on fire. The 50 star flag is an imperial flag anyway.

I don't support looting the taxpayers for anybody whether they want the money or not.

There are 3 good reasons against our FP:

1) Moral one - you just don't go bomb other innocent people.
2) Economic one - we are broke and don't have the money for all these bombs.
3) National Security one - when you bomb one innocent dude, his friends and family turn against you and become terrorists.

Since the average American is dumb is enough to understand any or all of the above, I'll settle for the Foreign Policy for Dummies edition - "Don't send our tax dollars to countries that burn our flag.", if it'll help our cause.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why Rand Paul, Lee Bright, and others like them would use this type of argument. I might too, if I was a politician. I'm just saying that personally whether they burn "Our flag" or not seems pretty irrelevant.

 

[Christian Liberty]

And to be clear, by "America" I mean the modern monstrosity. I respect the Founders of this country.

 

[specsaregood]

I can understand that, but I still don't care. America is evil and I see nothing wrong with lighting her flag on fire. The 50 star flag is an imperial flag anyway.

It sounds to me like you don't like that statement because you actually support burning the flag. So why pretend that it "doesn't really make a difference whether they burn our flag or not? "

 

[Christian Liberty]

It sounds to me like you don't like that statement because you actually support burning the flag. So why pretend that it "doesn't really make a difference whether they burn our flag or not? "

I don't "support" lighting the flag on fire. I just don't really care. And I don't dislike the statement, I just think its a stupid statement, directed at people with low IQs.

The reality is, we shouldn't be sending aid to anybody, or playing world cop.

 

[specsaregood]

I don't "support" lighting the flag on fire. I just don't really care. And I don't dislike the statement, I just think its a stupid statement, directed at people with low IQs. .

I call em as I seem em. If you like seeing them burn our flag, just come out with it, don't pussy foot around and make arguments about it being directed at people with low IQs.

 

[Mr.NoSmile]

I guess their views have evolved...or they're flip-flopping. Or something like that...

 

[Carlybee]

you mean our made in china flag?

 

[lib3rtarian]

I can understand that, but I still don't care. America is evil and I see nothing wrong with lighting her flag on fire. The 50 star flag is an imperial flag anyway.

I dislike people burning our flag, because the flag represents our country, not our government. Now, if they want to burn a US politician or something (except our guys) to make a point, I don't care.

I love my country, but dislike our government, or what it has become off late.

 

[fr33]

I support burning the flag but I don't care if you want to make it an issue when it comes to foreign aid since I DON'T support any of that.

 

[Legend1104]

And to be clear, by "America" I mean the modern monstrosity. I respect the Founders of this country.

America is an idea. It does not represent the government, or evil actions done by corrupt politicians. America is the idea started by the founders that humans have inalienable rights that grant us our freedom to live our lives to the fullest extent. America is not evil, it is noble. It is not the murder and hatred done by some sacrilegiously in its name. That is why, to me, the flag should represent something worth honor. When people see it, it should stand as a symbol of thousands of years of struggle and the sacrifice of countless lives yearning to be free. That is why I am filled with sadness when it is brought down to a level of disgrace by the actions of those evil politicians to such a point that others hate it enough to want to watch it burn.

 

[anaconda]

Don't get too comfortable

But this is my point. I am most definitely NOT comfortable. Something weird is happening and it's not even a RPF forum issue.

 

[jtstellar]

wait i'm not sure why there's sparks of a debate emerging after rereading the thread title

 

[anaconda]

...

 

[DylanWaco]

It really shouldn't surprise anyone that Graham and McCain want to use aid as a weapon to further U.S. imperial interests. I understand it's a reversal of their position, but the place they are coming from and the destination they have in mind has not changed at all.

 

[Mr.NoSmile]

Also, actions speak louder than words. They are on the record for voting against Paul's cutoff proposal. Whether you suddenly have a change of heart, flip flop, whatever, the votes are still there.

 

[compromise]

I know why Mace and Bright are using that line of attack... but can we all agree on this forum that it doesn't really make a difference whether they burn our flag or not?

They still support aid to Libya and Pakistan, both of whom have had frequent US flag-burnings in the past.