Massie to introduce War Powers Resolution to prohibit US involvement in Israel-Iran war

[Occam's Banana]

 

[nikcers]

Congress has limited constitutional authority here. They can tax and spend and they can order the president to go to war.

They can make a law but the law they make won't change the president's constitutional power.

They could try a constitutional amendment.

They did that to put term limits and limit the presidents power.

 

[TheTexan]

My favorite grandstander

 

[TheTexan]

Congress has limited constitutional authority here. They can tax and spend and they can order the president to go to war.

They can make a law but the law they make won't change the president's constitutional power.

They could try a constitutional amendment.

They did that to put term limits and limit the presidents power.

I'm not sure your premise is correct and I'm not sure it even matters.

"Constitutional authority" has been usurped left and right by every branch of government since essentially the founding of this country.

I for one am glad that Massie is attempting to usurp his constitutional authority here, if that is in fact what he's doing.

The only constitutional authority that exists is the constitutional authority that is provided by the democratic people, are essentially your own words from previous threads...

 

[nikcers]

I'm not sure your premise is correct and I'm not sure it even matters.

"Constitutional authority" has been usurped left and right by every branch of government since essentially the founding of this country.

I for one am glad that Massie is attempting to usurp his constitutional authority here, if that is in fact what he's doing.

The only constitutional authority that exists is the constitutional authority that is provided by the democratic people, are essentially your own words from previous threads...

Certainly there is elections. That's the ultimate democratic power that people hold.

The people could elect a different president if they didn't like the job they are doing.

Like if one president wasn't enforcing immigration laws and they wanted them to they could vote for a president that would.

Or if people didnt like a presidents foreign policy they could elect a different president.

Congress definitely doesn't have the power of foreign policy though.

They can't order the military to fight wars differently or not fight back if they are already at war.

 

[TheTexan]

Certainly there is elections. That's the ultimate democratic power that people hold.

The people could elect a different president if they didn't like the job they are doing.

Like if one president wasn't enforcing immigration laws and they wanted them to they could vote for a president that would.

Or if people didnt like a presidents foreign policy they could elect a different president.

Congress definitely doesn't have the power of foreign policy though.

They can't order the military to fight wars differently or not fight back if they are already at war.

Okay well you shouldn't mind then if Massie passes this bill because it can just be ignored anyway

 

[Occam's Banana]

 

[ClaytonB]

Congress has limited constitutional authority here.

Are you not able to read words?

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to... declare war...

The President has ZERO authority to prosecute any foreign military action whatsoever without Congress passing a declaration of war. Every military adventure the US has been doing since 9/11 is illegal because Congress has not formally declared war. There is no authority in the Constitution for Congress to "authorize military action" or whatever mealy-mouthed nonsense the Swamp has dreamed up for this. The reason why is that if there is to be a war with a foreign power, then all Americans need to understand what is happening with their taxes, and at least a sufficient majority must support the action as to pass a war declaration in Congress. The sitting government in DC is a hive of pirates operating wholly without jurisdiction or legitimate authority of any kind whatsoever. They and all their actions are as unlawful as a Somali pirate boat and far more cowardly and dishonorable.

 

[nikcers]

Are you not able to read words?

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to... declare war...

The President has ZERO authority to prosecute any foreign military action whatsoever without Congress passing a declaration of war. Every military adventure the US has been doing since 9/11 is illegal because Congress has not formally declared war. There is no authority in the Constitution for Congress to "authorize military action" or whatever mealy-mouthed nonsense the Swamp has dreamed up for this. The reason why is that if there is to be a war with a foreign power, then all Americans need to understand what is happening with their taxes, and at least a sufficient majority must support the action as to pass a war declaration in Congress. The sitting government in DC is a hive of pirates operating wholly without jurisdiction or legitimate authority of any kind whatsoever. They and all their actions are as unlawful as a Somali pirate boat and far more cowardly and dishonorable.

Im not going to reinterpret the constitutional powers of the president that has centuries of precedence.

There is literally hundreds of years of precedence.

Why dont you read a history book and you can see this is the case.

The way it works it simple.

The congress can declare war and the president has their own constitutional powers to go to war even preemptively.

The only effect this does have is it sends the wrong message to our adversaries that they can fuck around and not have to find out because the congress doesn't approve of the use of force when its the exact opposite and when they fuck around they are going to find out.

 

[Occam's Banana]

 

[unknown]

Start on this one too:

 

[acptulsa]

The only effect this does have is it sends the wrong message to our adversaries that they can fuck around and not have to find out because the congress doesn't approve of the use of force when its the exact opposite and when they fuck around they are going to find out.

 

[Invisible Man]

Im not going to reinterpret the constitutional powers of the president that has centuries of precedence.

There is literally hundreds of years of precedence.

Why dont you read a history book and you can see this is the case.

The way it works it simple.

The congress can declare war and the president has their own constitutional powers to go to war even preemptively.

The only effect this does have is it sends the wrong message to our adversaries that they can fuck around and not have to find out because the congress doesn't approve of the use of force when its the exact opposite and when they fuck around they are going to find out.

precedence​

[pres-i-duhns, pri-seed-ns]

Phonetic (Standard)IPA

noun​

1. act or fact of preceding. preceding.
2. the right to precede in order, rank, or importance; priority.
3. the fact of preceding preceding in time; antedating.
4. the right to precede others in ceremonies or social formalities.
5. the order to be observed in ceremonies by persons of different ranks, as by diplomatic protocol.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[ClaytonB]

The congress can declare war and the president has their own constitutional powers to go to war even preemptively.

No, the President has no authority WHATSOEVER in the Constitution to "go to war", neither pre-emptively nor in any other way. The President's authority is restricted solely to that of commander-in-chief of the Army, the Navy and the State militias when they are called up for federal service.

Here is the Constitutional architecture of the armed forces:

The States may maintain the militias for the purpose of enforcing the law or defending against invasion. They may not garrison troops in time of peace. Congress can raise an army for the purpose of enforcing law or defending against invaders, but only for two years, meaning, after the end of hostilities, the army is to be defunded. Congress can perpetually maintain a Navy (but is not obligated to). War can only be prosecuted by the United States upon a declaration by Congress. The declaration of war is what gives the commander-in-chief the legal authority to deploy troops and dispatch naval vessels. Outside of a declaration of war by Congress, the President has ZERO authority to deploy any troops or dispatch any naval vessels for hostilities. And, as already stated, within two years of the end of hostilities, the army must be defunded.

This is the clear and obvious intent of the Founders (and is backed up by their other writings), you don't have to be a "constitutional scholar" to figure it out, you only have to know how to read and understand words.

 

[nikcers]

No, the President has no authority WHATSOEVER in the Constitution to "go to war", neither pre-emptively nor in any other way. The President's authority is restricted solely to that of commander-in-chief of the Army, the Navy and the State militias when they are called up for federal service.

Here is the Constitutional architecture of the armed forces:

The States may maintain the militias for the purpose of enforcing the law or defending against invasion. They may not garrison troops in time of peace. Congress can raise an army for the purpose of enforcing law or defending against invaders, but only for two years, meaning, after the end of hostilities, the army is to be defunded. Congress can perpetually maintain a Navy (but is not obligated to). War can only be prosecuted by the United States upon a declaration by Congress. The declaration of war is what gives the commander-in-chief the legal authority to deploy troops and dispatch naval vessels. Outside of a declaration of war by Congress, the President has ZERO authority to deploy any troops or dispatch any naval vessels for hostilities. And, as already stated, within two years of the end of hostilities, the army must be defunded.

This is the clear and obvious intent of the Founders (and is backed up by their other writings), you don't have to be a "constitutional scholar" to figure it out, you only have to know how to read and understand words.

The president has deployed troops hundreds of times without a declaration of war what do you call the Korean war? The one where we saved the people of South Korea. Thats just one example out of literally hundreds.

You can't go changing the presidents power without a constitutional amendment.

 

[Invisible Man]

what do you call the Korean war?

Unconstitutional.

ETA: That said, as has been pointed out by others, it doesn't really matter if it's constitutional or not. Few people care about that. And those who do have no say over anything.

 

[nikcers]

Unconstitutional.

Yeah well thats funny I dont remember anyone saying that ever.

I have read all the history books on the Korean war.

My favorite is The General Vs. the President: MacArthur and Truman at the Brink of Nuclear War

 

[Invisible Man]

Yeah well thats funny I dont remember anyone saying that ever.

So you didn't read the OP, or ever have any exposure to a single thing Ron Paul ever said about any wars, ever?

 

[nikcers]

So you didn't read the OP, or ever have any exposure to a single thing Ron Paul ever said about any wars, ever?

How could I not know who Ron Paul is.

He isnt a supreme court judge though.

The supreme court has consistently ruled that its the presidents job to do national security not the congress and national security entails defense.

The president defends not only America's borders but our economic interests.

Thats why the USA bombed Yemen for over 20 months because they were attacking our shipping which is our economic interests.

It's more than that though. The US has economic interests in the region of the Middle east.

The US economy is dependent on the global economy.

We cant sit back and let Israel be genocided because we depend on the millions of barrels of oil that reach all areas of the world from that region being able to securely transit to other countries and Israel helps us as a security partner in the region.

Thats why troops are deployed in Israel an active war zone and they are shooting down missles.

 

[Invisible Man]

I have read all the history books on the Korean war.

No you haven't.

But also, you said we had been fighting wars without declarations for centuries. Funny how now the precedent (with a "t") you point to is one that was considerably less than one century ago.

And if you really want to hold that up as a great precedent (with a "t"), it would be good to dig a bit into the role the UN played in moving our foreign policy away from one in which declarations of war would ever be used and into one in which the US was increasingly to act as the world's policeman on behalf of global and foreign interests. The US Constitution had nothing to do with any of this.