Mapping the Ideology of RPF Members

Please Choose One Term In Each Pair

  • anarchism

    Votes: 12 26.7%
  • minarchism

    Votes: 29 64.4%
  • cultural left

    Votes: 14 31.1%
  • cultural right

    Votes: 24 53.3%
  • democratic government

    Votes: 15 33.3%
  • non-democratic government

    Votes: 24 53.3%
  • universalism

    Votes: 8 17.8%
  • particularism

    Votes: 24 53.3%
  • atheism

    Votes: 16 35.6%
  • theism

    Votes: 20 44.4%
  • deontology

    Votes: 18 40.0%
  • consequentialism

    Votes: 11 24.4%

  • Total voters
    45
It has nothing to do with the state (am I not repeating myself from the previous thread?).

It's about the law, state-enforced or stateless makes no difference in this context.

Either you believe that there is a correct way to handle adoption or you don't.

If not, then, by definition, you're fine with whatever happens - which puts you in a bit of a moral pickle as my hyperbolic example was intended to illustrate.

If so, well then you cannot simply endorse "whatever the market produces."

Either/or

A is not not-A.

Choose


And I too will repeat myself, there are actions an individual can take that are deserving of coercive action. The disagreement was much more along the lines that I highlighted, that I could not prescribe which family member got the child should it lose its parents, or how a family must go about settling the matter. A far cry from endorsing whatever the market produces.
 
What I refused to do was dance around the mulberry bush for the umpteenth time with someone who insistently demanded disproof of his aprioristic "proof" of something that is aprioristically un(dis)provable.

For evidence of the ultimate futility of arguing with such mentalitites, lurkers & others have no need to look beyond the patronizingly contentless sneers and childishly petulant name-calling in the above reply - tt's barely a few levels above, "Oh, yeah? Well ... yer a big fat doody-head! So there!"

Yep, I think what R3v says is right, read the thread. I enjoying debating with r3v to much to STFU, but I should, as others have made points much better.

ETA: I should clarify, this is directed at individuals curious as to whether r3vs arguments for authoritarianism can be considered a compelling reason for force over those of non-authoritarians, in agreement with Occam.
 
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I didn't vote on the last two pairs. I'm a deist. It doesn't fit well enough into either basket of "theism" or "atheism" for me to justify clicking either one. For the last two terms, frankly I just didn't know what they meant. Otherwise I went:

Minarchism
Cultural Right
Non-democratic govt
Particularism (which I assume is somewhere in between relativism and absolutism, in that you have to examine the particulars of any situation before passing judgment?)
 
No it wouldn't.

The failure of any particular anarchic society would no more "settle" anything than the failure of some particular minarchy would "prove" the non-viability or "impossibility" of minarchism. The most that could be said about such a situation would be that that particular anarchy - or minarchy - did not endure (or produced nugatory or negative results) under the particular historical circumstances & events which were contingent upon that particular time & place.

That mitigates his statement somewhat...sure...you sound as though you think it completely negates it though. There would be value in seeing how such an experiment panned out.
 
That mitigates his statement somewhat...sure...you sound as though you think it completely negates it though.

I neither said nor implied anything about something being completely negated. In fact, the whole point is that such "experiments" cannot "completely negate" anything.

At absolute best, they are dispositive only with respect to the particular circumstances and conditions under which they occurred.

They will not and can not "settle the debate for good" (as was claimed in the post to which I was responding).

There would be value in seeing how such an experiment panned out.

Value, yes. Certainly it might be of great value in exposing and illuminating various aspects (strengths, weaknesses, virtues, vices, etc.) of some particular socio-political arrangement under some particular circumstances. But "proof" of anything? No. To assert that any such "experiment" could provide an I-told-you-so "proof" of anything beyond those historically contingent circumstances is to indulge one of the most elementary fallacies of induction.

For example, there is much that can be learned from the failure of the minarchic state attempted by and outlined in the US Constitution as that failure actually played itself out under the particular historical circumstances in which it occurred. None of that, however, would or could stand as any kind of settled-for-good "proof" that minarchism is not possible. And exactly the same would likewise apply with regard to any attempted-but-failed anarchic society.
 
Ah anarchy, ya just gotta love it. ^^^^^^^ LOL! :D

"Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. Chaos always defeats order because it is better organized." -- Terry Pratchett
 
For my part anyway, I don't plan to do any arguing.

I'm just curious about how the general population of the forum lines up on these issues.

They are not issues, they are labels. Cognitive distortions.

For example, the one label that would describe my position is not in the list. Constitutionalist, or more completely, framist, as in framing documents.

So in order to be accurate within the parameters of this threads intents, a word has to be made up.
 
They are not issues, they are labels. Cognitive distortions.

For example, the one label that would describe my position is not in the list. Constitutionalist, or more completely, framist, as in framing documents.

So in order to be accurate within the parameters of this threads intents, a word has to be made up.

Or perhaps they just really wanted to omit and ignore you.
 
If/when we get to anarchy, there'll be no need for us minarchists to do anything...

...other than sit back and wait to say "we told you so" as things go decidedly pear-shaped.

;)

In all seriousness, I'd be 100% supportive of an anarcho-capitalist experiment in some limited geographical area, as that would settle the debate for good.

Perhaps after we establish a properly minarchic government we'll give you fellas a reservation to play anarchy on.... :cool:

this was the founders intent Rev3.
the founders did not create the "state" they inherited them. a federation by definition is a league of states.
the founders intent was to corral the states, and unite them under a common bond.

it was the Bill of Rights that was used to defeat the plan.

look through the "amendments" and this becomes obvious. Hamilton called this one correctly in the federalist paper #84.

I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and, on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretense for claiming that power. They might urge with a semblance of reason, that the Constitution ought not to be charged with the absurdity of providing against the abuse of an authority which was not given, and that the provision against restraining the liberty of the press afforded a clear implication, that a power to prescribe proper regulations concerning it was intended to be vested in the national government. This may serve as a specimen of the numerous handles which would be given to the doctrine of constructive powers, by the indulgence of an injudicious zeal for bills of rights.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_84.html

as the 9th amendment makes clear. we are now fighting over table scrapes.

even the 10th did not hold water AFTER they broke the seal.

They might urge with a semblance of reason, that the Constitution ought not to be charged with the absurdity of providing against the abuse of an authority which was not given,

Hmmm, that sounds like a spoonerism!!
 
When we are on the road to anarchy, all of you minarchists can just feel free to jump off whenever and wherever it starts to get too uncomfortable for you.

the very first thing that is going to happen when we get there.

is that I am going to make you and your ilk my bitch. :D

(careful what you wish for)
 
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