Many Amazon Warehouse Workers are on Food Stamps

A Son of Liberty said:
You're breaking my heart, honey.

There is nothing immoral about paying for labor what you consider it to be worth, and at a rate that laborers are willing to work for.

Q. E. D.

But perch up there upon your righteous indignation. No one cares.
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I care, really. I'm quivering with remorse as I type this.
 
angelatc said:
Preaching about morality is pretty much the antithesis of libertarian.
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No. A libertarian can be whatever they want and preach whatever they want, that is the whole point. The question I have is why is there a movement that insists that Libertarians be immoral in business and their interactions? To me that sounds very much like it is an intentional establishment scam to deter adoption of the philosophy. A philosophy adopted by many charitable Christians and Christians sects with their own sects of the philosophy.

angelatc said:
Those poor people are the thieves - they're the ones who decided it was morally acceptable to take tax money instead of seek an employer to pay them higher wages.
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So we attack people that have little choice in that matter rather than the largest profitable company in the history of the world that could make a charitable difference with their own employees rather than the employees a burden to the taxpayers.

This is an imperfect world and people are imperfect. You expect poor people to stick to a philosophy to not take money from government when they are desperate? Amazon is not in a desperate situation and does have the ability to prevent more people added to the welfare rolls, but you give them a free pass?
 
kahless said:
This is an imperfect world and people are imperfect. You expect poor people to stick to a philosophy to not take money from government when they are desperate? Amazon is not in a desperate situation and does have the ability to prevent more people added to the welfare rolls, but you give them a free pass?
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The difference here is that I don't think that some people can and should be bullied and shamed for predictably acting in their own self-interests, while others should be coddled and forgiven for the same behavior.
 
VIDEODROME said:
Overlords... Or modern Robber Barons?

I think you make a good point on the morality of this type of business behavior.
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Big business used to be a check against government power but when government puts power up for sale big business becomes the government. I thought that was what the whole libertarian movement was about, stopping the government from selling power to business by all means, even if that means taking power we gave government away. I always that there could be a balance between anarchy and libertarianism and that is a government that is locally elected so that it is more accountable to the people.
 
angelatc said:
The difference here is that I don't think that some people can and should be bullied and shamed for predictably acting in their own self-interests, while others should be coddled and forgiven for the same behavior.
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That works both ways.
 
VIDEODROME said:
Overlords... Or modern Robber Barons?

I think you make a good point on the morality of this type of business behavior.
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Why is it immoral to pay the market price for labor? Doesn't management have a moral obligation to protect the interests of the investors and the customers as well? Who gets to decide which moral obligation is superior?
 
angelatc said:
Why is it immoral to pay the market price for labor? Doesn't management have a moral obligation to protect the interests of the investors and the customers as well? Who gets to decide which moral obligation is superior?
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My 2 cents. It is not immoral to pay the market price for labor and no one is advocating against protecting the interests of investors and customers. Amazon however is in a unique position to balance their interests so their employees are not a burden to the taxpayers. (Such as charitable credit to the grocery stores for their employees)

They could probably do it off the profit they make from the floating interest from internet tax collection. More so when the legislation they are promoting passes and it will unless Trump has a real backbone in standing up to Bezo's. That is if his opposition to him is not all talk. Oddly however Trump almost sounds like he is flirting exactly with what Bezo's wants.
 
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angelatc said:
Why is it immoral to pay the market price for labor? Doesn't management have a moral obligation to protect the interests of the investors and the customers as well? Who gets to decide which moral obligation is superior?
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John Mackey was/is a big proponent of the "conscious capitalism" theory that it isn't all about profit. And he was very successful with WF with that model for a long time. Still here we are in 2018 and he was forced to sell out his company to Amazon after coming under attack by the profits-only capitalists that were on the verge of snookering his company out from under him....
 
kahless said:
It is not immoral to pay the market price for labor and no one is advocating against protecting the interests of investors and customers. Amazon however is in a unique position to balance their interests so their employees are not a burden to the taxpayers. (Such as charitable credit to the grocery stores for their employees)
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Why should Amazon care about the taxpayers?
 
specsaregood said:
John Mackey was/is a big proponent of the "conscious capitalism" theory that it isn't all about profit. And he was very successful with WF with that model for a long time. Still here we are in 2018 and he was forced to sell out his company to Amazon after coming under attack by the profits-only capitalists that were on the verge of snookering his company out from under him....
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My husband was a regional director for Whole Foods. I can assure you they were 100% about profit. The things they did to their vendors were horrible, they didn't hesitate to accept food stamps, and he sold his company because organic was becoming less and less niche every year.
 
angelatc said:
My husband was a regional director for Whole Foods. I can assure you they were 100% about profit. The things they did to their vendors were horrible, they didn't hesitate to accept food stamps, and he sold his company because organic was becoming less and less niche every year.
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I'm sure you know more about it than I; I'm just saying the philosophy he promoted publically. And they he was under attack by activist investor groups trying to get WF to leave their niche more.
 
angelatc said:
Who gets to decide which moral obligation is superior?
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The people that get to write the regulations. They decide the m-f work week, the amount of ethanol in our gas and how long we stay a war with Afghanistan.
 
angelatc said:
The big difference here is that I'm advocating for free market labor prices and against subsidies. I have no need to impose my morality on others.
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In most cases I agree. We are however discussing the largest monopoly in the history of the world that is waging economic warfare by targeting specific sectors and selling at a loss until all their competitors are put out of business in that sector. This is elimination of the free market.

While they do so they are partnering with government to pass the internet tax which will be impossible for anyone other than a monopoly to manage. A policy that could subject a business to a tax audit from any of the 9600 US tax jurisdictions. It is a small/medium size business killer and no doubt will be used by some jurisdictions politically against out of state businesses that do not comply with their philosophy.

Amazon is more of a threat to individual liberty than any of the so called foreign policy threats.
 
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