Many Amazon Warehouse Workers are on Food Stamps

So you don't think the rise in the size of government has affected living standards?


Assuming a cheap area to live a guy with a high school diploma is probably $10 an hour * 40 = 1,600 a month - taxes about 1,200.


Government has negatively impacted living standards, but it has only slowed growth. The average person today lives multiples better than a person in the 1950s.

The average high school grad makes 37k/yr today. https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/h...-weekly-earnings-of-718-in-second-quarter.htm

The average income for all workers in the 1955 was 4k. We'll take 4k from 1955 and adjust for inflation and interestingly it comes out to be $37k in today's dollars. So yes. I think a high school grad can a raise a family just the same as someone in the 1950s.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
 
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be 'cured' against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” -- C.S. Lewis, "God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)"
 
To say that libertarians should defend Amazon because it's an enterprise is laughable. When the corporations are in bed with the politicians, you have fascism, and fascism is no more free market than socialism. And the more libertarians babble about how enterprises are good no matter what--even to the point of winking at obvious distortions of markets and turning a blind eye to fascism--the less people looking for the answers the media obviously isn't giving them will look to libertarians for those answers.

Insisting that evil Amazon should be forced into paying over a market wage means you're siding against the free market. We can agree that this isn't a free market, but moar force isn't the Libertarian solution.

Let the workers starve. When they reach a point where they can't pay their bills any longer, their children are hungry at night, they will seek employment elsewhere, or they will seek a way to make themselves more valuable . Or they'll vote for people who promise to force Amazon to pay them more even though they're not worth more.

Congratulations - you win.

I can't stand the appeal to emotion nonsense. My life is 10 times harder than that of some guy working at an Amazon warehouse. If I can do it, so can he.
 
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be 'cured' against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” -- C.S. Lewis, "God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)"

You just described the status quo.
 
Government has negatively impacted living standards, but it has only slowed growth. The average person today lives multiples better than a person in the 1950s.

The average high school grad makes 37k/yr today. https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/h...-weekly-earnings-of-718-in-second-quarter.htm

The average income for all workers in the 1955 was 4k. We'll take 4k from 1955 and adjust for inflation and interestingly it comes out to be $37k in today's dollars. So yes. I think a high school grad can a raise a family just the same as someone in the 1950s.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

The official inflation numbers are manipulated.
 
Insisting that evil Amazon should be forced into paying over a market wage means you're siding against the free market. We can agree that this isn't a free market, but moar force isn't the Libertarian solution.

Let the workers starve. When they reach a point where they can't pay their bills any longer, their children are hungry at night, they will seek employment elsewhere, or they will seek a way to make themselves more valuable . Or they'll vote for people who promise to force Amazon to pay them more even though they're not worth more.

Congratulations - you win.

I can't stand the appeal to emotion nonsense. My life is 10 times harder than that of some guy working at an Amazon warehouse. If I can do it, so can he.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to angelatc again.
Some shocking un-libertarian shenannigans going on in this thread, Angie. :eek:
 
Some shocking un-libertarian shenannigans going on in this thread, Angie. :eek:

Our simplistic rules no longer apply. I could always say FREE MARKET, even if there wasn't one in existence for a very long time, and people would be nodding. Now they also insinuating my blind faith in the free market is the reason I am being fucked! :eek:

 
Last edited:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be 'cured' against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” -- C.S. Lewis, "God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)"

Amen! Bravo!

Let's have some more relevant and truly thought-provoking quotes:

" 'The theory of the Communists,' write Marx and Engels, 'may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.' But here, private property remains untouched. The productive apparatuses are to be fully automated, removing workers as much as possible from every stage of the production process: who, then, will own them? Who will own the commodities that these apparatuses produce? And if humanity is unburdened from the need to work and left to produce freely in the pursuit of its own self-expression, who will own that? Without anything to oppose bourgeois property, the result could be fully monstrous: a bloated, gluttonous ruling class engaged in limitless production, and recapturing any losses when the new peons come to spend their universal basic pittance. The propertied classes would fuse with an automaton that requires no human parts except for ownership to form a single apparatus; Utopia as a cyborg dictatorship.


"This future has, in fact, already been described – it’s E.M. Forster’s 1909 science-fiction story The Machine Stops. Here, all of humanity lives in tiny cells within the body of the vast subterranean Machine. The Machine produces all their consumer goods, it provides them with anything they might want or need at a moment’s notice, it speaks to them, and allows them to speak to each other through video-messaging. People tend not to leave their cells; it’s not forbidden, but it’s certainly not encouraged. Full automation. Universal basic income. A networked society. In the end the Machine starts to slowly disintegrate. Billions die, and Forster, who had something of a reactionary streak, can only see this as a good thing. Who owns the Machine? The Machine does." – The Future Has Already Happened, Sam Kriss

And a delicious word stew:

"Ever since it became theoretically evident that our precious personal identities were just brand-tags for trading crumbs of labour-power on the libidino-economic junk circuit, the vestiges of authorial theatricality [have been wearing] thinner"
 
Last edited:
"Ever since it became theoretically evident that our precious personal identities were just brand-tags for trading crumbs of labour-power on the libidino-economic junk circuit, the vestiges of authorial theatricality [have been wearing] thinner"

Same source:

“Suffering must be obviously futile if it is to be 'educational'. It is for this reason that our history is so unintelligible, and indeed, nothing that was true has ever made sense. 'Why was so much pain necessary?' we foolishly ask. But it is precisely because history has made no sense that we have learnt from it, and the lesson remains a brutal one.”
 
Same source:

“Suffering must be obviously futile if it is to be 'educational'. It is for this reason that our history is so unintelligible, and indeed, nothing that was true has ever made sense. 'Why was so much pain necessary?' we foolishly ask. But it is precisely because history has made no sense that we have learnt from it, and the lesson remains a brutal one.”

Pain is the Messenger. The Lesson will continue until it is Learnt.
 
Insisting that evil Amazon should be forced into paying over a market wage means you're siding against the free market. We can agree that this isn't a free market, but moar force isn't the Libertarian solution.

Can you please point to the post in this thread where someone advocated that since I do not see it acptula's post you quoted?

Some shocking un-libertarian shenannigans going on in this thread, Angie. :eek:

Maybe you two should spend time reading what Libertarians like Ron Paul believe about monopolies. What Ron said here applies to Amazon.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...31/blame-government-not-markets-for-monopoly/
Ron Paul said:
Monopolies and cartels are creations of government, not markets.
....
Legislation forcing consumers to pay out-of-state sales tax on their online purchases is a classic case of business seeking to use government to harm less politically-powerful competitors. This legislation is being pushed by large brick-and-mortar stores and Internet retailers who are seeking a government-granted advantage over smaller competitors.
...
Monopolies only exist when government tilts the playing field in favor of well-connected crony capitalists.
 
Some shocking un-libertarian shenannigans going on in this thread, Angie. :eek:

Liberals and Libertarians agree that public/private collusion is a bad thing. It's just the solutions we disagree on. Human nature is human nature...Amazon isn't going to pay .01 more than they have to. Workers aren't ever going to go home at night and say, "Yes, that's a perfectly fair wage for this job that requires very little special skills." And politicians are going to use tax money to buy votes.
 
Can you please point to the post in this thread where someone advocated that since I do not see it acptula's post you quoted?



Maybe you two should spend time reading what Libertarians like Ron Paul believe about monopolies. What Ron said here applies to Amazon.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...31/blame-government-not-markets-for-monopoly/

Maybe you should fucking look up the definition of monopoly. But allow me to quote from the same article you oddly decided would be good fodder:
When Time-Warner announced it planned to merge with another major communications firm, many feared the new company would exercise near-total monopoly power. These concerns led some to call for government action to block the merger in order to protect both Time-Warner's competitors and consumers.

No, I am not talking about Time-Warner’s recent announced plan to merge with AT&T, but the reaction to Time-Warner’s merger with (then) Internet giant AOL in 2000. Far from creating an untouchable leviathan crushing all competitors, the AOL-Time-Warner merger fell apart in under a decade.

The failure of AOL-Time-Warner demonstrates that even the biggest companies are vulnerable to competition if there is open entry into the marketplace. AOL-Time-Warner failed because consumers left them for competitors offering lower prices and/or better quality.
 
Last edited:
When Time-Warner announced it planned to merge with another major communications firm, many feared the new company would exercise near-total monopoly power. These concerns led some to call for government action to block the merger in order to protect both Time-Warner's competitors and consumers.

You are such a dupe. Everybody knew they were being set up. The calls for blocking the deal were orchestrated so the dupes at TW would have an excuse to go for it. Looks like you never seen a merger or an acquisition in real life. :cool:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top