Majority of Americans want Ed Snowden charged

No one I know does and I talk to hundreds of folks about this.....wait one guy did he was a Sonoma county deputy.
 
AngryCanadian said:
Rand Paul is sounding like an RINO.
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Nope, this is typical Republican BS. I'm definitely not registering GOP to vote for him now (I probably wasn't going to anyway) and I'm seriously questioning whether I could vote for him in a general election. Is it time to throw Rand Paul in the woods?

Oh, and any idiots who defend Rand on this (I suspect there will be a few "law and order" moderates who agree with Rand) I will neg rep. I'm just saying that in advance. I hope any of you who love liberty will do the same thing.
 
FreedomFanatic said:
Nope, this is typical Republican BS. I'm definitely not registering GOP to vote for him now (I probably wasn't going to anyway) and I'm seriously questioning whether I could vote for him in a general election. Is it time to throw Rand Paul in the woods?

Oh, and any idiots who defend Rand on this (I suspect there will be a few "law and order" moderates who agree with Rand) I will neg rep. I'm just saying that in advance. I hope any of you who love liberty will do the same thing.
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That's dumb. He's the most liberty minded prospective candidate at the moment.

Aside from that, I think that the entire chicken dick attitude about everyone spying on them is over done. What we have is a society that are products of Industrial Age logic and know nothing of the Information Age. I think they are fearful of evolution of civilization. For many reasons. Of course, I think differently than most around here so take it with a grain of salt, I suppose.

There's no such thing as anonymity or privacy in the Information Age. So get out of the way already. If you don't you'll just get stepped on as change passes by.

If we want to complain about NSA then it's more practical do take the more relevant approach and seek to understand it's function in money manipulation. Go back to 2010 for example when everything crashed and then suddenly recovered. Proctor & Gamble for instance. This was external to the system. One that that big old building in Utah was advertised to deal with before hand but didn't. You think maybe that's what is still on some powerful minds in DC? I do.
 
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@AF- http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-Rand-Paul-in-the-woods&p=5364039#post5364039

@Natural Citizen- I understand your point, but I don't agree with you.

I don't care so much about being on video on private property, and this would be doubly the case if the government didn't exist. If I go into Target and they put me on video, I suspect the primary reason is to prevent me from stealing from them. With the government... not so much.

That's not even really the point here though. Snowden EXPOSING the spying of the NSA wouldn't be an act of aggression even if the NSA itself weren't evil (Which it is.)
 
Natural Citizen said:
Well, heck. That's beside the point. Come on, man.
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No, that's exactly the point. Rand may say he opposes warrantless spying, but not enough so to condone those who expose it. He opposes some interventions, but not all of them, he's promised to defend Israel if they attack Iran (Yes, you read that statement right, shows you how much of an idiot Rand is at least pretending to be.) Rand says he opposes big government, yet he's fine with drug laws and social security. I've read "The Tea Party goes to Washington" and that Rand was exciting, albeit flawed. 2013 Rand really isn't. Is he better than the establishment on some issues? Sure. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think its really much. If 20% better is enough for you, go nuts, but for me its not. We need a serious paradigm shift in political opinions in this country before we can get anywhere, but frankly, playing to win means not trying to do that. Best of luck to those of you who support Rand, but I think I'm done unless any of you can give me a better argument than the whole "lesser of two evils" that I've also heard from the establishment.
 
FreedomFanatic said:
No, that's exactly the point. Rand may say he opposes warrantless spying, but not enough so to condone those who expose it. He opposes some interventions, but not all of them, he's promised to defend Israel if they attack Iran (Yes, you read that statement right, shows you how much of an idiot Rand is at least pretending to be.) Rand says he opposes big government, yet he's fine with drug laws and social security. I've read "The Tea Party goes to Washington" and that Rand was exciting, albeit flawed. 2013 Rand really isn't. Is he better than the establishment on some issues? Sure. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think its really much. If 20% better is enough for you, go nuts, but for me its not. We need a serious paradigm shift in political opinions in this country before we can get anywhere, but frankly, playing to win means not trying to do that. Best of luck to those of you who support Rand, but I think I'm done unless any of you can give me a better argument than the whole "lesser of two evils" that I've also heard from the establishment.
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He played to the Tea Party and paleocons while winking to his dad's supporters to get elected, and now he's calculated that going after evangelicals and the establishment will get him elected president, when both groups have better options.

In the end, he'll have mostly cult of personality supporters after alienating everyone else. I just don't see his strategy paying off.
 
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FreedomFanatic said:
No, that's exactly the point. Rand may say he opposes warrantless spying, but not enough so to condone those who expose it. He opposes some interventions, but not all of them, he's promised to defend Israel if they attack Iran (Yes, you read that statement right, shows you how much of an idiot Rand is at least pretending to be.) Rand says he opposes big government, yet he's fine with drug laws and social security. I've read "The Tea Party goes to Washington" and that Rand was exciting, albeit flawed. 2013 Rand really isn't. Is he better than the establishment on some issues? Sure. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think its really much. If 20% better is enough for you, go nuts, but for me its not. We need a serious paradigm shift in political opinions in this country before we can get anywhere, but frankly, playing to win means not trying to do that. Best of luck to those of you who support Rand, but I think I'm done unless any of you can give me a better argument than the whole "lesser of two evils" that I've also heard from the establishment.
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Well. First...nobody is going to just walk in and attack Iran. These are the Persians. They have been around for a very long time and are almost 80 million people deep the last I checked. The entire narrative regarding Iran is fear porn in my opinion.

I've never been much on the two party system myself so tend to find it more practical to approach the issues outside of their platforms. I'm not going to support or attack him from within mainstream boundaries though. It's a loaded waste of time. Outside of that where the relevant things are regularly on the minds of prospective voters and discussed outside of mainstream narrative, that's a different story. But if I were a supporter of the two party system I'd most likely vote for him...assuming he ran.

Alternatively, I think we live in very special times where politics won't necessarily dictate change. These people are just kind of tagging along.
 
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Feeding the Abscess said:
He played to the Tea Party and paleocons while winking to his dad's supporters to get elected, and now he's calculated that going after evangelicals and the establishment will get him elected president, when both groups have better options.

In the end, he'll have mostly cult of personality supporters after alienating everyone else. I just don't see his strategy paying off.
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I get your point about Evangelicals, but that stereotype is a pet peeve of mine. I'm an evangelical, as is Ron Paul, as is Laurence Vance. That said, I mostly agree with you though. He's alienated me. Its possible that I'll be living in Virginia during the 2016 elections if I actually go to PHC, and if its a very swingy state, I might cut him a little slack and vote for him. But even then, I'm not sure, and I'm definitely not going to waste my time trying to convince people to vote for him anymore. I've decided its just not worth it. I don't demand perfection, but I'm not playing the "lesser of evils" game either. As much as I hope Rand is just playing the game and is really a Ron Paul in waiting, I don't think that's true. And even if its true intellectually, I don't see him saying "screw it" to his more moderate supporters and starting to use the presidential pardon for every victimless criminal. He's going to rule based on the platform he's running on. And if this is it, it ain't much.

Either way, I don't see Rand's middle of the road course working for anything useful. He could moderate, and win, but then it wouldn't really matter anyway. He could act more like his dad, and not win, but he could further educate people (To be honest, I'd love to run for congress some day just for that reason despite being unelectable.) But frankly, I think all this will accomplish is ticking off the standard Republicans AND the libertarians. The standard Republicans will be calling for Snowden's head, and supporting the guy who will give them the blood they want. libertarians and real conservatives are going to be annoyed that he's supporting the imprisonment of a national hero. Either way, it ain't gonna work.

Natural Citizen said:
Well. First...nobody is going to just walk in and attack Iran. These are the Persians. They have been around for a very long time and are almost 80 million people deep the last I checked.
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That stopped the neocons since when?
I've never been much on the two party system myself so tend to find it more practical to approach the issues outside of their platforms. I'm not going to support or attack him from within mainstream boundaries though. It's a loaded waste of time. Outside of that where the relevant things are regularly on the minds of prospective voters and discussed outside of mainstream narrative, that's a different story. But if I were a supporter of the two party system I'd most likely vote for him...assuming he ran.
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I'm no fan of the two party system either. I just thought Rand was an exception. I don't really think so anymore. I'm glad to see at least one person mostly agrees with me. I suspect most people won't. Oh well.
 
As much as I admire Ron, I really hope someone presses him into actually saying something about this. Can he really make the "99%" comment with a straight face after this? I don't see how he could. Someone should press him on it.
 
Natural Citizen said:
There's no such thing as anonymity or privacy in the Information Age. So get out of the way already. If you don't you'll just get stepped on as change passes by.
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Then there is no such thing as liberty anymore...which is pretty much true.

If you do not have a way in which to live your life without being under the watchful eyes of a thousand government spooks, if every single thing you do is subject to recording and review, then you are in no way, shape or form a "free" man.

Well, good, glad that's over with...FFS, I'm tired.

Enjoy your brave new world kids...I'm done.

When's the ball game on?
 
FreedomFanatic said:
As much as I admire Ron, I really hope someone presses him into actually saying something about this. Can he really make the "99%" comment with a straight face after this? I don't see how he could. Someone should press him on it.
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He won't. It's not that he doesn't see it your way, but he's not going to do anything to compromise Rand's chances now.
 
Anti Federalist said:
Then there is no such thing as liberty anymore...which is pretty much true.

If you do not have a way in which to live your life without being under the watchful eyes of a thousand government spooks, if every single thing you do is subject to recording and review, then you are in no way, shape or form a "free" man.

Well, good, glad that's over with...FFS, I'm tired.

Enjoy your brave new world kids...I'm done.

When's the ball game on?
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Yeah, I probably shouldn't have made it sound like I was excusing the government. I'm not. If they weren't in the mix and using technology in the manner in which they do against the people the world would be just fine with living in the information age as far as I can tell though.
 
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cajuncocoa said:
He won't. It's not that he doesn't see it your way, but he's not going to do anything to compromise Rand's chances now.
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There are a couple people in my family who would probably (they aren't really informed enough to actually know) prosecute Snowden if they know what he did. Their ignorance frustrates me as a layperson, but if any of them ran for SENATE, let alone the white house, I would disown them on TV, refuse to ever have anything to do with them, and publicly tell them to repent. Ron is too nice to do that. Don't know if that makes him a better man than me, or just too generous. At any rate, if Ron is reading this, he needs to realize that getting someone with the name "Paul" in the White House is not in and of itself a valid goal.
 
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