MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: Lawyers for Ron Paul Lawsuit NOTE: Having the lawsuit not up 4 debate

[sailingaway]

Pretty much called it like this from the beginning. Was pleading for an effort to hire a serious lawyer with a record of success to handle this case. I would have paid any amount of money because I think it would be a slam dunk if the individual handling it wasn't an idiot.

What a damned shame.

so file a new suit, then. If you are willing to pay any amount of money, an attorney can be hired immediately. THAT suit couldn't be stopped because the guy was going ahead, but see my post to steve above, it may still be possible if the court sees in front of him someone is trying to address his points that the court will try to help. He DID try.

I would rather not wait to see if Gilbert's complaint is found to be sufficient because then a more fact based on won't be in the judge's hands so he knows it wouldn't be a futile effort to just give another chance to amend.

 

[sailingaway]

must be way back, three 20 post pages back and no see.

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D150257_4054156_6414717

 

[rockandrollsouls]

I can donate some more, but reaching the bottom of my wallet and cannot hire the attorney by myself. If someone wants to set up a chip-in as a contingency, I'd be happy to put the little I have left into it and I'd hope others would do the same.

And while I know a fair bit about many things, the level of detail in this is beyond me. But I could see from the start Gilbert was questionable. If someone has a reputable lawyer in mind, lets get the name, get the info, start the chip in, and see if we can pump enough money into this to get something legitimate in place in the event Gilbert fails.

This would need to be a serious community effort, though. More so than anything we've done in the past.

so file a new suit, then. If you are willing to pay any amount of money, an attorney can be hired immediately. THAT suit couldn't be stopped because the guy was going ahead, but see my post to steve above, it may still be possible if the court sees in front of him someone is trying to address his points that the court will try to help. He DID try.

I would rather not wait to see if Gilbert's complaint is found to be sufficient because then a more fact based on won't be in the judge's hands so he knows it wouldn't be a futile effort to just give another chance to amend.

 

[rb3b3]

I don't get it, we get this dude in here saying he worked many federal cases, that he read Gilbert's new complaint, said its garbage, posted a link on what it's supposed to look like, and can't help us at all... Wow wtf is going on here???? There should be nothing holding him back from helping with this lawsuit!!!!!! This lawsuit gives some power back to we the people!!!!! What the fuhk can be more important then that!??!??? your fukn full of sht my man!!!!! There is no reason what so ever you can't do good for America!!! This is a lawsuit for America land of the free!!!! And you can't help???? Give me a fuhhkn break you ******!!!

 

[sailingaway]

I can donate some more, but reaching the bottom of my wallet and cannot hire the attorney by myself. If someone wants to set up a chip-in as a contingency, I'd be happy to put the little I have left into it and I'd hope others would do the same.

And while I know a fair bit about many things, the level of detail in this is beyond me. But I could see from the start Gilbert was questionable. If someone has a reputable lawyer in mind, lets get the name, get the info, start the chip in, and see if we can pump enough money into this to get something legitimate in place in the event Gilbert fails.

This would need to be a serious community effort, though. More so than anything we've done in the past.

What I want to do is have anyone who wants to get into 'oh no, we should have known' go to the Vent and talk about that. I want to keep the threads here constructive. If there is sufficient support to hire an attorney I think that is something we should at least consider, or putting together a fact based statement and sending it to Gilbert so he has it all set out and can file it as a 'this is what I would like to amend it to say' in response to the next motion to dismiss. Because the judge MIGHT be willing to allow an amendment if the amendment was in his hands already and he knew it wouldn't be futile.

But I think we should keep both possibilities open.

I re read the complaint and there ARE facts on the single issue now placed before the court. What I don't like is how little is placed before the court, and of course I can always second guess something someone else does.

 

[sailingaway]

I don't get it, we get this dude in here saying he worked many federal cases, that he read Gilbert's new complaint, said its garbage, posted a link on what it's supposed to look like, and can't help us at all... Wow wtf is going on here???? There should be nothing holding him back from helping with this lawsuit!!!!!! This lawsuit gives some power back to we the people!!!!! What the fuhk can be more important then that!??!??? your fukn full of sht my man!!!!! There is no reason what so ever you can't do good for America!!! This is a lawsuit for America land of the free!!!! And you can't help???? Give me a fuhhkn break you ******!!!

there could be any number of reasons. He might simply work for a firm or company that does not allow even pro bono outside work without special clearances.

And I am not saying he is right as to what Gilbert DID file, I don't know, and we will find out. But there is a lot that no longer IS in the complaint that I would like to see there if there is a way to get it there.

I also feel like our delegates who are plaintiffs because it was the only suit doing something about the fraud are in the middle of this, and I would like us to support them if there is a way to do it.

I also don't think the time that passed meant that they had a chance to read the new complaint and it is very different from prior ones. Did they want to say the RNC rules are irrelevant or that once there, and people joined and participated they couldn't be changed after the fact? Because there is a difference.

I really don't understand why he rushed to file today when the court gave him until August 20 to file, but since the court DID give him that long, I wonder if a different complaint filed by him or someone else by that date, would get the court's eyes. It would be entirely up to whether the judge WANTED to see it, but he put in a lot of work late at night on this, and I think it is a decent shot if we can come up with a way to do it.

 

[Tiso0770]

I don't get it, we get this dude in here saying he worked many federal cases, that he read Gilbert's new complaint, said its garbage, posted a link on what it's supposed to look like, and can't help us at all... Wow wtf is going on here???? There should be nothing holding him back from helping with this lawsuit!!!!!! This lawsuit gives some power back to we the people!!!!! What the fuhk can be more important then that!??!??? your fukn full of sht my man!!!!! There is no reason what so ever you can't do good for America!!! This is a lawsuit for America land of the free!!!! And you can't help???? Give me a fuhhkn break you ******!!!

Hmmmmm, who is this mystery man......

 

[RonRules]

Let me clarify a point. A complaint MUST lay out sufficient fact to support the claims.

Sorry, you may be a big time lawyer nice guy and I'm not, but the way I see it is there is no NEED for facts the way this case is set up.

It's not a complaint, it's just a question: Is the Civil Rights Voting Act pertinent to caucuses and conventions for the purposes of electing someone to a Federal office?

A very important question that may have never been asked from a judge.

In the affirmative, then we can file a slew of Civil Rights violations that will keep lawyers like you busy for the next 5 years.

 

[sailingaway]

I don't see any need to be insulting. From what I see Steve is trying to help. He may be wrong on the way that one cause of action is written, but that would be a separate issue.

I don't mind belt and suspenders but we have to figure out how to create the suspenders and how to get them attached to the pants, and if that is doable.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

And, so far, from what I'm reading, that's exactly what Gilbert is attempting to do with this amended version.
He appears to be heading where he said he was, using Federal Law to unbind the delegates.
It looks good to me so far, I'm on page 33.

 

[JK/SEA]

I don't see the point in Steve interjecting. I have to assume he's not on our side. Thanks for nothing Steve.

Meanwhile, Rome burns.

 

[Tiso0770]

I will give steve the benefit of a doubt, but he must also understand that we get many trolls on here.

 

[lawdida]

I don't know.

 

[sailingaway]

I don't see the point in Steve interjecting. I have to assume he's not on our side. Thanks for nothing Steve.

Meanwhile, Rome burns.

I don't look at it that way. Either he is wrong, and the complaint is fine, and the court says so, or he is right and there are possibilities it can be fixed if we can get something done fast enough. IF he was RIGHT and nothing was done before the judge rendered a verdict on the NEXT motion to dismiss, so the judge does dismiss, the judge at this point might not give leave to amend again. If he is wrong, again, no issue, the judge won't dismiss. But if he is right, it might be possible, which is what needs to be considered, to write up and get in place one way or another the draft of exactly what a new complaint would look like if the court it its discretion allowed another amendment. And the judge who already put a lot of work into this would be more likely to allow a THIRD amended complaint if the draft were in front of him and he could see that it satisfied his concerns.

So the way I look at it, either Steve did no harm, (if he is wrong) or gave us a heads up while it is possible something might be done.

 

[sailingaway]

There is a big assumption here that this strategy (one suit in federal court) is a good idea, or that it is at least better than nothing.

I've had legal training. I'm committed to the cause. Why so quick to call me a troll or eve say I'm being unhelpful? Lawyers are often paid good money for looking over a strategy and advising "Don't" or "Stop."

I have not merely mocked this suit. I've given reasons. What I'm doing is being helpful even if I'm not helping to draft the complaint.

no it isn't because we can't stop what Gilbert is doing. All we would be able to MAYBE do is influence it or join in. From YOUR point of view I would think you would like the new complaint less than the last because of the greater rock the boat intent.

 

[JK/SEA]

There is a big assumption here that this strategy (one suit in federal court) is a good idea, or that it is at least better than nothing.

I've had legal training. I'm committed to the cause. Why so quick to call me a troll or eve say I'm being unhelpful? Lawyers are often paid good money for looking over a strategy and advising "Don't" or "Stop."

I have not merely mocked this suit. I've given reasons. What I'm doing is being helpful even if I'm not helping to draft the complaint.

Yeah, George Washington would've loved you in his army, yelling at other soldiers they can't shoot and they're going to lose.

Help out this country or go fuck yourself. Steve too.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

He's also entered into the record that in 2008 the RNC recognized a delegate to vote his concience (for McCain) per the Voting Rights Act. And he wants all delegates served with notice that they are free at all times to vote their concience per the VRA (page 34(1-4)).

 

[lawdida]

I don't know.

 

[sailingaway]

It just doesn't address the fraud and abuse at the conventions and putting that in, just as why we need the question clarified, even might be helpful. But frankly, I just miss it because to ME that was what the case was mostly about.

 

[sailingaway]

Plaintiffs can withdraw.

do you know all of them? We sure don't and if ONE plaintiff stays on, the case goes forward. [edit, well, ok, two, one from a couple of different states]

Now if we had an ALTERNATE complaint through some amicus or intervening process (and I don't know how to do that) plaintiffs might switch over, but those who are plaintiffs don't understand the law, they just feel abused and want redress and feel nothing is being done.

Frankly, a lot of us feel that way.