MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: Lawyers for Ron Paul Lawsuit NOTE: Having the lawsuit not up 4 debate

[PointsOfOrder]

The law is already on the books... why not just use it and then have the RNC try to take the RP supports to court?

 

[ChristopherShelley]

I'm not a lawyer. I can't speak to the law. But laws are supposed to be made to protect the truth and the rights of people. Any deviation from that, a law or the actions of an individual or group, is an attempt to suppress the truth and the process that defends our rights. That can be observed by anyone, legal expertise or not.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

The determination of truth and the defending of rights is a process. We either go all the way, or we don't.

 

[sailingaway]

The question is whether the case was framed in the best way. The thing is is, this is the only suit there was that addressed, at least under earlier complaints, the fraud and abuse across the nation.

Gilbert is going to do what he is going to do, and the plaintiffs are going to do what they are going to do.

 

[RonRules]

Do consider also that this is a very far reaching case, affecting all future elections, and the judge may want to get rid of this hot potato as fast as he can.

The judge calling the second amended complain a "press release" is disingenuous on his part. He clearly just wants to see this thing go.

Consider that.

 

[sailingaway]

Do consider also that this is a very far reaching case, affecting all future elections, and the judge may want to get rid of this hot potato as fast as he can.

The judge calling the second amended complain a "press release" is disingenuous on his part. He clearly just wants to see this thing go.

Consider that.

the judge gave a very detailed description of how the complaint could be ruled satisfactory, but Gilbert wanted to pursue only a different theory. I liked the judge's complaint better, but I didn't bring the suit. Since Gilbert put his time into it, Gilbert chose the strategy.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

The question is whether the case was framed in the best way. The thing is is, this is the only suit there was that addressed, at least under earlier complaints, the fraud and abuse across the nation.

Gilbert is going to do what he is going to do, and the plaintiffs are going to do what they are going to do.

Well that was kind of my point. He initiated this lawsuit and a lot of people criticized him for it, rightly or wrongly.

But if the point of a lawsuit is to find the truth and determine if anyone's rights have been violated, if that is the premise, then it should be judged on that basis.

If the lawsuit does not do that, and people's rights were violated, then they must still be defended.

All I'm saying is that there has been a lot of talk in this thread about what should have been done or what should be done, and I hope that those people who had so many opinions will pursue that, no matter what the result of this lawsuit is.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

Richard Gilbert

You may be very insightful Robert Werden We were left with no choice when the Judge refused to expedite the case with only 4 days left. By the way, the critics made much noise about the Order the Judge made for Tuesday to show cause why the case shouldn't be dismissed for filing the Appellate papers. The critics do not seem to wish to tell everyone the Judge ruled in our favor. The case, for the moment, survives again

4 hours ago

https://www.facebook.com/RichardAttorneyInUSA

from the comments section of this post:

Richard Gilbert

5 hours ago

We are waiting for a ruling from the Appellate Court where we seek an Order to require our Judge to rule prior to the convention.
Our Judge does not wish to rule upon the merits of the case at this time. Procedures are being used by the Judge to declare our claim a press release that he finds unintelligible. Our complaint can be readily understood by any reasonable person. It asks whether the Vot
ing Rights Act applies. Not even the RNC has agreed with the Judge's current position. In efffect the Judge is ordering the RNC to file papers to agree with the Judge. Our 2nd Amended Complaint is posted for you at electionfraudremedy.com
Take a look for yourself. Do you see a press release? Do you not understand what the claim is for?

 

[CPUd]

Do consider also that this is a very far reaching case, affecting all future elections, and the judge may want to get rid of this hot potato as fast as he can.

The judge calling the second amended complain a "press release" is disingenuous on his part. He clearly just wants to see this thing go.

Consider that.

Technically, he didn't directly call it a press release, he was quoting from case law, which used that language as a basis for tossing a complaint. Same difference, I suppose, as he was lumping it into that category.

 

[SteveT1736]

ChristopherShelley --

Mr. Gilbert's characterization is inaccurate and, frankly, deceptive.

He is facing dismissal because HE has not bothered to plead specific facts linking wrongs by the defendants to wrongs suffered by the plaintiffs. That is a pre-condition for every lawsuit. That is not some new burden on him.

The issue is NOT that the Judge cannot determine what he is asking. It is that the Judge has no specific wrongs to apply the law at issue to and craft a remedy for. That is Gilbert's job -- one at which he has utterly failed.

There is another issue that has not had much discussion. What Gilbert is asking the Court to do is determine whether or not the Voting Rights Act applies to a political convention -- without anyone being wronged (remember the lack of specific facts). That is called an advisory opinion and those in our court system are not allowed (mostly for constitutional reasons going back to the early days of the Republic). Courts do not address hypotheticals. They must handle actual wrongs.

The bit about the RNC not agreeing with the Judge's position or being ordered to do this or that is flat-out false. The Defendants' attorneys have sat on the side while Gilbert himself blew the case apart. They have not filed a thing since the Motion to Dismiss was granted. The Judge's order this week didn't require them to do anything -- if gave them the right to file a document if they felt compelled (which so far they have not).

I get the strong impression that Mr. Gilbert is trying to provide cover for his own failings by blaming the Judge. This Judge has done everything to give Mr. Gilbert the chance to fix his errors. Instead, each time he has compounded them. The responsibility for this disaster rests clearly on one set of shoulders and it is not Judge Carter's.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

ChristopherShelley --

Mr. Gilbert's characterization is inaccurate and, frankly, deceptive.

He is facing dismissal because HE has not bothered to plead specific facts linking wrongs by the defendants to wrongs suffered by the plaintiffs. That is a pre-condition for every lawsuit. That is not some new burden on him.

The issue is NOT that the Judge cannot determine what he is asking. It is that the Judge has no specific wrongs to apply the law at issue to and craft a remedy for. That is Gilbert's job -- one at which he has utterly failed.

There is another issue that has not had much discussion. What Gilbert is asking the Court to do is determine whether or not the Voting Rights Act applies to a political convention -- without anyone being wronged (remember the lack of specific facts). That is called an advisory opinion and those in our court system are not allowed (mostly for constitutional reasons going back to the early days of the Republic). Courts do not address hypotheticals. They must handle actual wrongs.

The bit about the RNC not agreeing with the Judge's position or being ordered to do this or that is flat-out false. The Defendants' attorneys have sat on the side while Gilbert himself blew the case apart. They have not filed a thing since the Motion to Dismiss was granted. The Judge's order this week didn't require them to do anything -- if gave them the right to file a document if they felt compelled (which so far they have not).

I get the strong impression that Mr. Gilbert is trying to provide cover for his own failings by blaming the Judge. This Judge has done everything to give Mr. Gilbert the chance to fix his errors. Instead, each time he has compounded them. The responsibility for this disaster rests clearly on one set of shoulders and it is not Judge Carter's.

Declaratory speech signifies, to me, either knowledge or manipulation. That's why I like facts.

I have seen a whole lot of the former here on RPF.

I am going to try to stick with the latter.

So, your point is, that he blew the case because he did not provide sufficient facts to back his complaint?

That seems like a reasonable argument. I would think that one could not win a court case by going in there with only an accusation and a theory.

But you, sir, imo are No. 1 at the moment for the person around here who needs to start putting something together in the real world instead of just posting here in this thread. I hope you will.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

USA_Patriot_Press ‏@USA_Free_Press

96% of all Appellate Writs are denied. Our Appellate Writ survives at least until Friday

5:22 PM - 23 Aug 12 via web

USA_Patriot_Press ‏@USA_Free_Press

We successfully quashed The ability of the RNC to file a Motion To dismiss. So the Judge ordered the RNC to do it. I file papers in morning

5:32 PM - 23 Aug 12 via web

 

[sailingaway]

Sounds like he doesn't see a lot of future in it. But he went with the theory he said he would. I still have the jury out on that guy's motives but he always wanted a different case than I did. And he did what he said he planned to do.

I just STILL really would like to see that multistate fraud suit, but even if he wins on appeal, he isn't addressing that.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Sounds like he doesn't see a lot of future in it. But he went with the theory he said he would. I still have the jury out on that guy's motives but he always wanted a different case than I did. And he did what he said he planned to do.

I just STILL really would like to see that multistate fraud suit, but even if he wins on appeal, he isn't addressing that.

I hope this isn't dropped after the convention.

 

[RonRules]

We successfully quashed The ability of the RNC to file a Motion To dismiss.

I'd sure like to know how he did that.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

If it happened we should be able to find that out.

 

[sailingaway]

NOw that it seems unlikely to be a win media is running it as Ron's 'last chance' and ignoring the suit in Maine for an injunction to seat the Maine delegates, etc.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/23/paul-backers-pressing-to-seat-more-delegates-suit-/

 

[devil21]

This court has a clear policy on it's web page that loser pay all court cost, regardless of RG not charging.. it was said also that the RNC lawyer was pro bono.. but the cost for his research and time??? Could he submit costs?

Link to this source that loser automatically pays other side's legal costs? That's NOT a federal rule and I have a very hard believing that would stand up to legal scutiny.

 

[sailingaway]

Link to this source that loser automatically pays other side's legal costs? That's NOT a federal rule and I have a very hard believing that would stand up to legal scutiny.

ditto.

 

[ChristopherShelley]

I have no idea about that.