MAGA now wants "democracy" over a repubic.

[jmdrake]

 

[TheTexan]

But muh republic

 

[jmdrake]

But muh republic

 

[Occam's Banana]

Here's something else the "America is a republic, not a democracy" types should probably consider:

The Roman Republic (which is often held up as the epitome of what a republic is or ought to be) had elected tribunes. Tribunes had absolute veto power over legislation passed by the assemblies (the "legislative" branch of the Republic), as well as over the actions/policies of the consuls (the "executive" branch of the Republic). The office of tribune was established when Rome eliminated the office of kingship and went from being a kingdom to being a republic. The office of tribune in particular was established especially in order to prevent anyone in Rome from ever becoming (or exercising the power of) a king again.

In contrast to Musk's quote ("If any judge anywhere can block every presidential order everywhere, we do not have democracy - we have tyranny of the judiciary."), any Roman tribune anywhere could block every assembly law or consular order everywhere. Yet, Rome was a republic (with some democratic elements). So would Musk, et al. call the Roman Republic a "tyranny of the tribunes", when the whole point and purpose of the office and its power of veto was to prevent tyrannical kings?

 

[jmdrake]

Here's something else the "America is a republic, not a democracy" types should probably consider:

The Roman Republic (which is often held up as the epitome of what a republic is or should be) had elected tribunes. Tribunes had absolute veto power over legislation passed by the assemblies (the "legislative" branch of the Republic), as well as over the actions/policies of the consuls (the "executive" branch of the Republic). The office of tribune was established when Rome eliminated the kingship and went from being a kingdom to being a republic. The office of tribune in particular was established especially in order to prevent anyone in Rome from ever becoming a king again.

In contrast to Musk's quote ("If any judge anywhere can block every presidential order everywhere, we do not have democracy - we have tyranny of the judiciary."), any Roman tribune anywhere could block every assembly or consular order everywhere. Yet, Rome was a republic (with some democratic elements). So would Musk, et al. call the Roman Republic a "tyranny of the tribunes"?

Good point! And how is blocking government action "tyranny?" When the president vetos a bill is that "tyranny" or is it just the system acting the way it's supposed to act?

 

[Occam's Banana]

Good point! And how is blocking government action "tyranny?" When the president vetos a bill is that "tyranny" or is it just the system acting the way it's supposed to act?

There is a reason why courts and judges are sometimes referred to as "tribunals" (though Musk and others seem to have forgotten it, if they ever knew).

 

[nikcers]

It is indeed a type of democracy. Its just not a "direct democracy"

There are a lot of people advocating for a direct democracy and a more direct democracy.

This would be like eliminating the electoral college.

We used to have an even more indirect democracy before we changed the law we couldnt even vote for the president.

You could only vote if you weren't dependent on other people and you could only vote for the person who gets to choose who to vote for.

The names on the ballot when you voted were the names of the people who were chosen to vote on your behalf.

So the Founders didnt even think common people were qualified to even vote for the president.

Now everyone can vote for the president. Whether they are dependent on other people or not.

MAGA of course likes and I would argue even loves the idea of American democracy.

The one that we have championed for the last 100 years where we vote for the president.

Its an indirect democracy in which we elect people to rule on our behalf instead of the American people ruling directly.

If an unelected judge grabs power away from our president that does destroy our idea of American democracy and makes the judge more of a king.