Longtime RP supporter, 1st time poster: GET SOME PERSPECTIVE
- Thread starter josh24601
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I never said no mistakes were made. I said to untwist your collective panties. Do you think Romney is screaming and yelling that he dumped millions of dollars to get beat by an ex-preacher? (Ok maybe). Or Rudy having panic attacks that he edged out Duncan Hunter? Is McCain thrilled about having to say that it's win NW or quit?
The way to react to setbacks - perceived or real - is not panic, not indignation. That's all I'm saying. We're better and smarter than that.
derdy
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Welcome to the forums!
With all due respect, while some of the emotions may run deep for some people, maybe some are crazed, who knows, but we're up against some very big and powerful people/corporations/organizations etc.
It's very possible that the mass hysteria and negativity was caused and/or exploited by some outside sources with ill intent for the campaign. We're a soft target, open to the public, and definitely susceptible to social engineering.
Think about it. How many threads did you see people go completely overboard and absolutely negative before ALL precincts had even reported?
I saw people QUITTING these forums because of Dr. Paul having low numbers! How ridiculous is that? Is characteristic of a REAL suppoter? I think not.
Not only that, but with so much traffic on these forums sometimes the initial flood of 1st responses to an OP's post can bury a troll's first response as well. I had to report a troll tonight who had posted probably 10 negative and obnoxious posts and glossed over by others before he was banned.
We are in a battle for our country and ideas. Nationalism vs. globalism and most of our leaders are globalists so it's helpful to understand to understand the psy-op war that is being waged against us.
Here's the US strategy for fighting Psy-Ops on the Internet from Donald Rumsfeld.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4655196.stm
Here's the DoD report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/27_01_06_psyops.pdf
With all due respect, while some of the emotions may run deep for some people, maybe some are crazed, who knows, but we're up against some very big and powerful people/corporations/organizations etc.
It's very possible that the mass hysteria and negativity was caused and/or exploited by some outside sources with ill intent for the campaign. We're a soft target, open to the public, and definitely susceptible to social engineering.
Think about it. How many threads did you see people go completely overboard and absolutely negative before ALL precincts had even reported?
I saw people QUITTING these forums because of Dr. Paul having low numbers! How ridiculous is that? Is characteristic of a REAL suppoter? I think not.
Not only that, but with so much traffic on these forums sometimes the initial flood of 1st responses to an OP's post can bury a troll's first response as well. I had to report a troll tonight who had posted probably 10 negative and obnoxious posts and glossed over by others before he was banned.
We are in a battle for our country and ideas. Nationalism vs. globalism and most of our leaders are globalists so it's helpful to understand to understand the psy-op war that is being waged against us.
Here's the US strategy for fighting Psy-Ops on the Internet from Donald Rumsfeld.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4655196.stm
Here's the DoD report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/27_01_06_psyops.pdf
eric_cartman
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good post... i agree that this thing probably wasn't rigged, and that the results were legitimate ... but you don't really believe that Bush won the 2000 and 2004 elections do you? clearly Gore won Florida (mainly because black voters were disenfranchised) and Kerry won Ohio (electronic voting machine fraud). So even though these results appear to be legitimate, it's not like election fraud hasn't happened in the past, and it's not like it wont happen again in the future.
hells_unicorn
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Welcome to the forum, unfortunately we have a very large collection of trolls and novices on here, they represent a sizable and noisy minority on here.
I admire your enthusiasm and I share it, but we should be careful not to become Rumsfelds in the process of fighting him.
Again.... you win no support for Paul and you diminish his credibilty when you even bring something like that up, especially when you are trying to win REPUBLICANS to the cause. The guy who voted for Fred Thompson will not change his vote to Ron Paul because of your compelling case for Al Gore or John Kerry.
I only feel compelled to say this to you because I want to give the campaign every chance it can get, and stuff like this harms it.
Wow!!
Absolutely great post!! Sure, I was slightly disappointed we didn't place or show, but that sentiment has quickly evaporated. Actually, I am more motivated than ever. Dr Paul's performance in Iowa is, in my opinion, exceptional! Just look at the margin. Visualize in your mind for a second-- 10,000 brothers (and sisters) in arms deep in enemy territory put up their best fight and did damn good. Thank you to all Iowans!!
I am still holding out hope that we're the silent majority (that is, we rational ones), and that this very vocal minority will come to their senses by tomorrow morning. We need unity, solidarity, and, at least at this point, sobriety. Attacks towards the campaign and Iowan caucus-goers only serve to spread dissent in the ranks and decrease morale, undermining the very movement we are fighting for. Let's stick with the real positive: we exceeded expectations. We are no longer fringe supporters.
Stick to your guns people. Channel your emotions into productive activities. If Iowa gets you down, go out there and make sure your state does better! Remember, we knew this would be a hard fight and unlike most other candidates we've still got money in the bank!
Absolutely great post!! Sure, I was slightly disappointed we didn't place or show, but that sentiment has quickly evaporated. Actually, I am more motivated than ever. Dr Paul's performance in Iowa is, in my opinion, exceptional! Just look at the margin. Visualize in your mind for a second-- 10,000 brothers (and sisters) in arms deep in enemy territory put up their best fight and did damn good. Thank you to all Iowans!!
I am still holding out hope that we're the silent majority (that is, we rational ones), and that this very vocal minority will come to their senses by tomorrow morning. We need unity, solidarity, and, at least at this point, sobriety. Attacks towards the campaign and Iowan caucus-goers only serve to spread dissent in the ranks and decrease morale, undermining the very movement we are fighting for. Let's stick with the real positive: we exceeded expectations. We are no longer fringe supporters.
Stick to your guns people. Channel your emotions into productive activities. If Iowa gets you down, go out there and make sure your state does better! Remember, we knew this would be a hard fight and unlike most other candidates we've still got money in the bank!
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derdy
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And actually, now that I read the OP's whole post....
To say that we wear tinfoil hats due to our concern about the legitimacy of an election is absurd!
Counting the votes is the most crucial point of any election and there WAS vote rigging in 2000 and 2004.
Vote counting transparency = no tin foil hats
To say that we wear tinfoil hats due to our concern about the legitimacy of an election is absurd!
Counting the votes is the most crucial point of any election and there WAS vote rigging in 2000 and 2004.
Vote counting transparency = no tin foil hats
derdy
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I'm not susceptible to that type of corruption nor was I encouraging it.
Paulitician
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I agree a lot with what you said.
However, I must disagree about the campaign not needing to fire people. Some of the campaign is just completely incompetent. Instead of seasoned professionals, Ron Paul has his loyal friends running the show. That is just stupid if you ask me. Loyal friends are great, but we need people who actually have experience running a PRESIDENTIAL campaign, and winning. Anyway, yesterday wasn't all that horrible. We did get 10k, but it could have been so much better. Ron was saying he was going to disprove the polls and pundits, but instead he just proved them to be absolutely correct. I'm sure all of us thought they weren't polling all our support, and that we'd have huge voter enthusiams/turn out. That was hardly the case. Ron Paul better start rising in the polls, and he can only do that by targeting the right demograpic (Republicans over 40 years old) and by emphasizing specific parts of the message.
However, I must disagree about the campaign not needing to fire people. Some of the campaign is just completely incompetent. Instead of seasoned professionals, Ron Paul has his loyal friends running the show. That is just stupid if you ask me. Loyal friends are great, but we need people who actually have experience running a PRESIDENTIAL campaign, and winning. Anyway, yesterday wasn't all that horrible. We did get 10k, but it could have been so much better. Ron was saying he was going to disprove the polls and pundits, but instead he just proved them to be absolutely correct. I'm sure all of us thought they weren't polling all our support, and that we'd have huge voter enthusiams/turn out. That was hardly the case. Ron Paul better start rising in the polls, and he can only do that by targeting the right demograpic (Republicans over 40 years old) and by emphasizing specific parts of the message.
eric_cartman
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i agree that it might diminish his credibility... but it is true none the less. it's not like there are people on these forums who are on the fence about voting for ron paul. once you're a ron paul supporter, you don't ever change your mind and vote for giuliani or something? i wouldn't worry about a random person coming on these forums, reading some random response, then deciding not to vote for ron paul. there's nothing that could be posted in these forums that could turn these people away... forum people are hardcore ron paul supporters. ya... if the official campaign started crying about election fraud, that might not help things (though i think any publicity is good publicity) ... but election fraud is real... it's not some "conspiracy" ... and the ron paul rEVOLution needs to be on the lookout. it looks like the results in Iowa may have been legitimate, but these are issues that we need to be mindful of in the future.
I gotta get sleep, but I'm very nervous about this impulse within the RP community to call for centralized authoritarian direction at the first sign of panic.
This campaign is about personal liberty and individual accountability. The nanny state will not fix our education problems and a nanny campaign will not yield a 20% surge. Stop looking to a Great Leader to make everything okay.
Dr. Paul purposely has a decentralized type of campaign because the market (us) will always be more powerful and effective than any one group of people.
Channel your angst into positive tangible action and, if everybody else follows the message they seem to be supporting and does likewise, you'll see what you want come better, faster and more efficient than if you leave it up to some group of people in a room somewhere.
That's the great thing about a free market and personal accountability, or didn't you see the Youtube?
This campaign is about personal liberty and individual accountability. The nanny state will not fix our education problems and a nanny campaign will not yield a 20% surge. Stop looking to a Great Leader to make everything okay.
Dr. Paul purposely has a decentralized type of campaign because the market (us) will always be more powerful and effective than any one group of people.
Channel your angst into positive tangible action and, if everybody else follows the message they seem to be supporting and does likewise, you'll see what you want come better, faster and more efficient than if you leave it up to some group of people in a room somewhere.
That's the great thing about a free market and personal accountability, or didn't you see the Youtube?
Paulitician
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We not asking for a nanny campaign or a centralized campaign, we're asking for a competent campaign that can do the job well.
free.alive
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I'm glad this was the first post I read today after watching the results come in.
People, just a little bit better here, a little better there, a little more here and there as well, and we could have swayed those who went to Thompson and achieved the coveted third place.
Iowa campaign and volunteers - phenomenal job. The odds are against us (understatement of the year) and we're surging slowly and measuredly.
We all want to win first in every state. But we'll be in this thing until the convention, and that plus the grassroots brushfire is going to make us the strongest, and the campaign that wins.
Also, aren't these figures similar to the Iowa straw poll? Well, if straw polls are ant indicator...
People, just a little bit better here, a little better there, a little more here and there as well, and we could have swayed those who went to Thompson and achieved the coveted third place.
Iowa campaign and volunteers - phenomenal job. The odds are against us (understatement of the year) and we're surging slowly and measuredly.
We all want to win first in every state. But we'll be in this thing until the convention, and that plus the grassroots brushfire is going to make us the strongest, and the campaign that wins.
Also, aren't these figures similar to the Iowa straw poll? Well, if straw polls are ant indicator...
Although the idea of free-market thinking and decentralized action is what attracted me to the movement (no big brother looking over me), I'm beginning to feel as though some of us are not really experienced or confident yet with this approach to totally trust in it. It's like the nanny state that hovers over us has still conditioned us a bit, no matter how hard we tried to resist it.
I think there are many in the movement that still need a guide or mentor to lead them toward a proper course of action. Someone to give them confidence that they're heading in the right direction.
That's the correction I think the campaign needs to make. They need to communicate with us more often as to what we should be doing, as well as listen to what we have to say.
If they had a spokesman who worked specifically with the internet forums, reading our suggestions, sending us updates through emails or video podcasts, giving us their opinions and listening to ours, I think we would feel much more energized and confident that everybody is on the same track - the track leading to victory.
I'm not too keen on the idea of the forum having a committee to represent us because we are all so different in philosophies and backgrounds that I doubt we would come to an acceptable consensus on who would be on such a committee.
But dealing with the communication issue is very important. I think a lot of us feel as though the campaign is not listening to us enough and are missing some good ideas or issues that many here feel are important to address. And I for one would feel a hell of a lot better if someone from the campaign would let us in on what they are doing and what they think we should be doing. The campaign needs a forum spokesman.
I think there are many in the movement that still need a guide or mentor to lead them toward a proper course of action. Someone to give them confidence that they're heading in the right direction.
That's the correction I think the campaign needs to make. They need to communicate with us more often as to what we should be doing, as well as listen to what we have to say.
If they had a spokesman who worked specifically with the internet forums, reading our suggestions, sending us updates through emails or video podcasts, giving us their opinions and listening to ours, I think we would feel much more energized and confident that everybody is on the same track - the track leading to victory.
I'm not too keen on the idea of the forum having a committee to represent us because we are all so different in philosophies and backgrounds that I doubt we would come to an acceptable consensus on who would be on such a committee.
But dealing with the communication issue is very important. I think a lot of us feel as though the campaign is not listening to us enough and are missing some good ideas or issues that many here feel are important to address. And I for one would feel a hell of a lot better if someone from the campaign would let us in on what they are doing and what they think we should be doing. The campaign needs a forum spokesman.
Great thread and very encouraging. I, too, get very disappointed when I see conspiracy theorists rant and rave on Digg and YouTube, completely painting a negative picture of Paul's support. We are, imho, very competent and rational, and I personally don't subscribe to any conspiracies in such early primaries. I think Paul placed fairly and reasonably; a great showing that he indeed has a base that can affect the race. Note there was only a roughly ~5k difference between 3/4 and 5th. Instead of turning potential voters AWAY on social networks with irrational conspiracy theories, why not communicate logic and reason? Why not let people know there is more to Paul than the candidate they support and perhaps entertain his positions?
I must, however, agree with some that the campaign staff has been very unproductive. Paul himself has stressed they are having a hard time finding ways to spend the money. Granted, they most likely had a hard time landing air time in Iowa, but there are MANY ways to spend that money. For one, you could be setting up more headquarters across key and early primary states. They could hire more staff (perhaps to move orders quicker -- I've been waiting almost 2 weeks for my order of Ron Paul merchandise). They could be getting more radio and TV ad rotation. They could be hiring individuals to canvass neighborhoods for, if anything, placing fliers in mailboxes. I think they are handling this campaign in a very "hands-off" manner. Their mentality is very laissez-faire in nature. Paul also claims he feels grateful to be a part of the revolution; but, is he and his staff as active as they should be? Are they capitalizing on this grassroots support or just hoping it does all the work for them? A 5th place finish in NH would confirm all the doubt that has been circulating in the media. I pray they have been doing more campaign work there because, frankly, not being able to keep pace with Thompson isn't promising. I also feel that cheering his triumph over Giuliani is misplaced enthusiasm: Giuliani pulled out of Iowa long ago! It was simply not a priority.
But I digress; what's important to keep in mind is that we as a group need to convey calm and sensible logic. Spread this message to others you see crossing the line and leaving a bad impression of our revolution in the eyes of potential converts/voters.
I must, however, agree with some that the campaign staff has been very unproductive. Paul himself has stressed they are having a hard time finding ways to spend the money. Granted, they most likely had a hard time landing air time in Iowa, but there are MANY ways to spend that money. For one, you could be setting up more headquarters across key and early primary states. They could hire more staff (perhaps to move orders quicker -- I've been waiting almost 2 weeks for my order of Ron Paul merchandise). They could be getting more radio and TV ad rotation. They could be hiring individuals to canvass neighborhoods for, if anything, placing fliers in mailboxes. I think they are handling this campaign in a very "hands-off" manner. Their mentality is very laissez-faire in nature. Paul also claims he feels grateful to be a part of the revolution; but, is he and his staff as active as they should be? Are they capitalizing on this grassroots support or just hoping it does all the work for them? A 5th place finish in NH would confirm all the doubt that has been circulating in the media. I pray they have been doing more campaign work there because, frankly, not being able to keep pace with Thompson isn't promising. I also feel that cheering his triumph over Giuliani is misplaced enthusiasm: Giuliani pulled out of Iowa long ago! It was simply not a priority.
But I digress; what's important to keep in mind is that we as a group need to convey calm and sensible logic. Spread this message to others you see crossing the line and leaving a bad impression of our revolution in the eyes of potential converts/voters.
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BrettCates
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Donkey Punch all of the bunch
We're not looking at the big picture here. Ron Paul just earned two delegates!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#IA
REPUBLICAN CAUCUSES January 03, 2008
Race
Status
Candidate
Votes
%
Del*
Precincts
Iowa
Updated 10:05 p.m. EDT, Jan 3, 2008
County Results
Entrance Poll
Huckabee
39,814
34%
17
95%
reporting
Romney
29,405
25%
12
Thompson
15,521
13%
3
McCain
15,248
13%
3
Paul
11,598
10%
2
Giuliani
4,013
4%
0
Hunter
515
1%
0
• Del* - The delegate column shows the most recent estimated number of pledged delegates from this state
We're not looking at the big picture here. Ron Paul just earned two delegates!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#IA
REPUBLICAN CAUCUSES January 03, 2008
Race
Status
Candidate
Votes
%
Del*
Precincts
Iowa
Updated 10:05 p.m. EDT, Jan 3, 2008
County Results
Entrance Poll
Huckabee
39,814
34%
17
95%
reporting
Romney
29,405
25%
12
Thompson
15,521
13%
3
McCain
15,248
13%
3
Paul
11,598
10%
2
Giuliani
4,013
4%
0
Hunter
515
1%
0
• Del* - The delegate column shows the most recent estimated number of pledged delegates from this state
