Light bulb ban to take effect

[angelatc]

LED lifespans have actually increased from 1st to 4th generation, from 25,000 hours to 50,000 hours (some bulbs are even rated at 100,000 hours!)[/QUOTE]


Sure, the early CFL bulbs are probably still burning somewhere. But as the price point came down so did the hours they lasted. Planned obsolescence.

 

[angelatc]

It's easy to say "The evidence is all around us" to someone without really substantiating that claim and thinking you've won that debate. "It's a fact! There is no argument!"

Her next move will involve calling you a shill, and then posting some story that unrelated to the original topic, but has at least an undertone of corporate malfeasance.

 

[eduardo89]

Sure, the early CFL bulbs are probably still burning somewhere. But as the price point came down so did the hours they lasted. Planned obsolescence.

I wouldn't chalk it down to 'planned obsolescence' since CFL bulbs aren't obsolete. I'd say that the bulbs that aren't lasting as long are newer entrants into the sector, who to gain a foothold and market share, either are using lower quality materials or an inferior production process to produce bulbs at a cheaper price. In the end, you almost always get what you pay for. Go for the cheaper bulbs and you will get an inferior product.

 

[donnay]

It's easy to say "The evidence is all around us" to someone without really substantiating that claim and thinking you've won that debate. "It's a fact! There is no argument!"

You're going to have to do a little better than that. The collusion of government and corporations doesn't always result in this "corporatocracy" that you don't really describe. Like I said, the government is pulling the strings and handing out favors. Do companies pay for favors? Probably. Are they the be-all-and-end-all of US politics? Not in the slightest. The government's agenda goes far beyond making dirty money, and they have corporations as their willing accomplices.

I am not sitting here saying I won anything. I am saying "think..." who stands to gain with endless wars. Who stands to gain by discrediting alternative energy? Who stands to gain by making living off the grid illegal? How stands to gain by banning alternative medicine? Who stands to gain by making alternative food illegal? What major corporations have a monopoly on our media?

Our government has been hijacked--plain and simple. We, as consumers, are paying for the chains that are enslaving us. It's all about control.

 

[angelatc]

I wouldn't chalk it down to 'planned obsolescence' since CFL bulbs aren't obsolete.

No the phrase can also refer to making a product that is designed to fail. Broken windows marketing.

I'd say that the bulbs that aren't lasting as long are newer entrants into the sector, who to gain a foothold and market share, either are using lower quality materials or an inferior production process to produce bulbs at a cheaper price. In the end, you almost always get what you pay for. Go for the cheaper bulbs and you will get an inferior product.

You'd think, but the CFLs I got when they first hit the market cost me $1 (it was a promotional deal) and when I moved out of the house 3 years later they were all still burning.

These day, I buy the bulbs that they have at the grocery store, and they sometimes last a month. Incandescents even less. Decorative incandescents often burn out the 2nd time the switch is turned on. And they are made by GE and Sylvania.

 

[eduardo89]

No the phrase can also refer to making a product that is designed to fail. Broken windows marketing.

Well, obviously every light bulb will eventually fail

 

[donnay]

Well, obviously every light bulb will eventually fail

For a 112 years the one in the firehouse in Livermore, California only went out do to power failure for about 9 hours but went back on when the power was restored.

 

[angelatc]

Well, obviously every light bulb will eventually fail

Yes, but if I make one that fails once per month, I will sell a lot more light bulbs over the course of 10 years than I will if I make one that lasts 10 years. I think it's like the food that is packed in smaller sizes so the manufacturer can avoid the perception of having raised prices.

That's what frustrated me about incandescent bulbs. I would happily pay $10 for a single bulb if I could be assured that I didn't need to change it every 60 days, but that option wasn't available. No matter which bulbs I bought , they didn't last like they used to.

 

[Romulus]

Are CFL's safe or do they put out 'dirty electricity' that I hear about...

 

[angelatc]

Are CFL's safe or do they put out 'dirty electricity' that I hear about...

Well, that's only an issue if you take off the foil hat.

 

[donnay]

Are CFL's safe or do they put out 'dirty electricity' that I hear about...

I don't think there safe at all. Hold an EMF meter up against the CFL's and the meter goes off the charts. Some LED's as well.

Citizens for Safe Technology
http://citizensforsafetechnology.org/electrical--cfls-in-communities-governments,67,0



Electromagnetic hypersensitivity: biological effects of dirty electricity with emphasis on diabetes and multiple sclerosis.

Havas M.


Author information




Abstract


Dirty electricity is a ubiquitous pollutant. It flows along wires and radiates from them and involves both extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields and radio frequency radiation. Until recently, dirty electricity has been largely ignored by the scientific community. Recent inventions of metering and filter equipment provide scientists with the tools to measure and reduce dirty electricity on electrical wires. Several case studies and anecdotal reports are presented. Graham/Stetzer (GS) filters have been installed in schools with sick building syndrome and both staff and students reported improved health and more energy. The number of students needing inhalers for asthma was reduced in one school and student behavior associated with ADD/ADHD improved in another school. Blood sugar levels for some diabetics respond to the amount of dirty electricity in their environment. Type 1 diabetics require less insulin and Type 2 diabetics have lower blood sugar levels in an electromagnetically clean environment. Individuals diagnosed with multiple sclerosis have better balance and fewer tremors. Those requiring a cane walked unassisted within a few days to weeks after GS filters were installed in their home. Several disorders, including asthma, ADD/ADHD, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, are increasing at an alarming rate, as is electromagnetic pollution in the form of dirty electricity, ground current, and radio frequency radiation from wireless devices. The connection between electromagnetic pollution and these disorders needs to be investigated and the percentage of people sensitive to this form of energy needs to be determined.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17178585

 

[JK/SEA]

c'mon, we all know the REAL issue is not about quality, savings, or safety...

ITS ABOUT MY FUCKIN CHOICE BEING TAKEN AWAY...GOD DAMMIT I HATE THIS SHIT...

i think i might go out and burn some rubber, or dump my used crank case oil in the river.

 

[Anti Federalist]

That's that line voltage fluctuation that I was speaking of in another post.

Course it'll be pooh-poohed off and nothing but conspiracy rambling.

Guess I'll have to take a picture of my multimeter as reads 132 volts plugged into a wall socket.

Yes, but if I make one that fails once per month, I will sell a lot more light bulbs over the course of 10 years than I will if I make one that lasts 10 years. I think it's like the food that is packed in smaller sizes so the manufacturer can avoid the perception of having raised prices.

That's what frustrated me about incandescent bulbs. I would happily pay $10 for a single bulb if I could be assured that I didn't need to change it every 60 days, but that option wasn't available. No matter which bulbs I bought , they didn't last like they used to.

 

[Anti Federalist]

c'mon, we all know the REAL issue is not about quality, savings, or safety...

ITS ABOUT MY FUCKIN CHOICE BEING TAKEN AWAY...GOD DAMMIT I HATE THIS SHIT...

i think i might go out and burn some rubber, or dump my used crank case oil in the river.

I'll join you.

 

[angelatc]

I don't think there safe at all. Hold an EMF meter up against the CFL's and the meter goes off the charts. Some LED's as well.

Citizens for Safe Technology
http://citizensforsafetechnology.org/electrical--cfls-in-communities-governments,67,0



Electromagnetic hypersensitivity: biological effects of dirty electricity with emphasis on diabetes and multiple sclerosis.

Havas M.


Author information




Abstract


Dirty electricity is a ubiquitous pollutant. It flows along wires and radiates from them and involves both extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields and radio frequency radiation. Until recently, dirty electricity has been largely ignored by the scientific community. Recent inventions of metering and filter equipment provide scientists with the tools to measure and reduce dirty electricity on electrical wires. Several case studies and anecdotal reports are presented. Graham/Stetzer (GS) filters have been installed in schools with sick building syndrome and both staff and students reported improved health and more energy. The number of students needing inhalers for asthma was reduced in one school and student behavior associated with ADD/ADHD improved in another school. Blood sugar levels for some diabetics respond to the amount of dirty electricity in their environment. Type 1 diabetics require less insulin and Type 2 diabetics have lower blood sugar levels in an electromagnetically clean environment. Individuals diagnosed with multiple sclerosis have better balance and fewer tremors. Those requiring a cane walked unassisted within a few days to weeks after GS filters were installed in their home. Several disorders, including asthma, ADD/ADHD, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, are increasing at an alarming rate, as is electromagnetic pollution in the form of dirty electricity, ground current, and radio frequency radiation from wireless devices. The connection between electromagnetic pollution and these disorders needs to be investigated and the percentage of people sensitive to this form of energy needs to be determined.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17178585

It's a miracle!!!!


It isn't even a study. It's just anecdotal evidence from a single person calling for studies. And it isn't like she has a Nobel Prize or anything that might grant her special publishing privileges. I'm not really familiar with the criteria they use to pick items they publish, but I'd like to know why they picked this one. Her previous publications have been roundly criticized. Here's one:

http://www.emfandhealth.com/EMF&Health%20EHS%20Poor%20Studies%206.html

And here's another:

http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/bmj-column-why-dont-journalists-mention-the-data/

There have now been 37 such double blind “provocation studies” [that discredit the theory] published in the peer reviewed academic literature, and they are almost all negative, although you could argue that the evidence is unanimous. There are, to be clear, seven studies that did find some statistically significant effect for electromagnetic signals: but for two of those, even the original authors have been unable to replicate the results; for the next three, the results seem to be statistical artefacts (one tailed t-tests—presumptuous, you might say—and problems with multiple comparisons); and for the final two, the positive results are mutually inconsistent (one shows worsened mood with provocation, and the other shows improved mood: still sure a one tailed t-test is reasonable?).

 

[Anti Federalist]

Corporate greed exists, sure, but it's still a cop-out. I've seen you around here long enough to know you'll agree that corporations aren't evil for being greedy. They're doing what corporations do. Ultimately, however, "corporate greed" is cheap rhetoric by liberals who don't understand how the economy works. Things are priced according to the market, not "corporate greed". Corporate greed is not responsible for the decline in your standard of living; government is.

There is no "market".

Not when things are banned or restricted by force of law.

 

[angelatc]

There is no "market".

Not when things are banned or restricted by force of law.

Exactly right. If LEDs and CFLs are better choices for any or all reasons, the incandescent bulb would have died eventually. They didn't need to outlaw horses to get people to start buying cars.

 

[angelatc]

c'mon, we all know the REAL issue is not about quality, savings, or safety...

ITS ABOUT MY FUCKIN CHOICE BEING TAKEN AWAY...GOD DAMMIT I HATE THIS SHIT...

i think i might go out and burn some rubber, or dump my used crank case oil in the river.

You can throw your CFLs in the garbage. They'll teach them!

 

[angelatc]

That's that line voltage fluctuation that I was speaking of in another post.

Course it'll be pooh-poohed off and nothing but conspiracy rambling.

Guess I'll have to take a picture of my multimeter as reads 132 volts plugged into a wall socket.

Well, it might not hurt to have your meter calibrated. But in our old house we had surges you could see. Al the lights would brighten and /or dim. I don't get that so much here, but the bulbs don't last any longer.

 

[PRB]

Exactly right. If LEDs and CFLs are better choices for any or all reasons, the incandescent bulb would have died eventually. They didn't need to outlaw horses to get people to start buying cars.

but horses and bicycles ARE outlawed on most roads, aren't they?