Liberty Dollar to close on 08/05/08?

[salinaspaul]

i just saw this:

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm

Has this already been discussed here?

 

[salinaspaul]

forgot to keep track of responses... doing that now...

 

[pacelli]

The problem on my end is that they are charging $50.00 for an ounce of silver. Current spot price is $16.51.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

I agree..and I dont' even think it is ethical to charge so much over spot. tones

 

[theoakman]

it's not unethical. I'm sure the market for people willing to pay 50 bucks for an oz of silver is very small. If anyone was willing to do so, that's their choice. No one is forcing them to buy it. Now, if someone forced all silver dealers to sell at that price, that's a different story.

 

[tmosley]

Well, you can't sell at that price and then complain when no-one buys it. If they can't make them for a competitive rate, then they shouldn't have gotten into that business in the first place.

 

[sratiug]

I agree..and I dont' even think it is ethical to charge so much over spot. tones

Then how do you justify a 50 dollar bill?

 

[tmosley]

Then how do you justify a 50 dollar bill?

With a rifle.

Take it or else.

 

[muzzled dogg]

^touche

 

[Sarge]

The CFL needs to come up with a mint that will make coins at a small mark up over spot.

Once that happens the coins will be sucked up. Why pay 50 bucks for what one can buy for 16 some dollars for the US. Liberty coin, silver round or ingot.

Free market would say, do it on volume and a little less then the rest. Then one corners the market. Make the right coins at the right price and they will be bought.

Have them do coppers, nickels and silver and gold coins at the right price and see what happens. Better to get rich on billions of coins then 100K coins.

 

[Gideon]

Good idea...

I have given this a great deal of thought, and I have even gone so far as to create the first set of dies, which hopefully we will begin minting this fall.

Obverse will be a 3D depiction of the state flag (name of currency to be announced later).
Reverse will be a Panoramic Scene of a state landmark, as well as the metal type, weight and purity.

Our tentative plan is to price in metal value, such as:

Item A costs 1 ounce Ag, or $20.

This way, as the value of the commodities rises, the only price changes needed will be those in FRNs, thus demonstrating fiat devaluation.

By the way, for those detractors of the Liberty Dollar, please let me remind you of some numbers:

1998 - 1 troy ounce .999 silver Liberty face value: $10

2006 - 1 troy ounce .999 silver Liberty face value: $20

2008 - 1 troy ounce .999 silver Liberty face value: $50

Now, which of those prices in FRNs is closest to the manufactured price of a 1 ounce Silver Liberty today? The $20 SLD (actual cost $22 each).

Folks have been red in the face arguing since 1998 that the Liberty Dollar was overpriced, and I hope that many of those same folks can finally admit that, at the very least, the Liberty Dollar demonstrates the de-valuation of the FRN, and at the same time enables folks to voluntarily acquire silver, gold and copper for use in private barter.

I have been quite heavily involved in the Liberty Dollar, significantly impoverished through FBI asset forfeiture, victimized in the form of a 90% loss of business credibility, and all by the same U.S. Mint officials who, in accordance with the Rule of Law as delineated in the Coinage Act of 1792, should actually be executed for monetary debasement.

Flak over target and all that...

The Liberty Dollar, like the Ron Paul Revolution, will never "close," because the people involved with the Liberty Dollar today, have dedicated sufficient time and invested a great deal of personal energy towards our common goal of returning to a Consitututional, metal money standard of currency.

We the People will continue the course of bartering through the use of private, monetary-metal, money.

If you still don't like the Liberty Dollar, go make your own money!

The CFL needs to come up with a mint that will make coins at a small mark up over spot.

Once that happens the coins will be sucked up. Why pay 50 bucks for what one can buy for 16 some dollars for the US. Liberty coin, silver round or ingot.

Free market would say, do it on volume and a little less then the rest. Then one corners the market. Make the right coins at the right price and they will be bought.

Have them do coppers, nickels and silver and gold coins at the right price and see what happens. Better to get rich on billions of coins then 100K coins.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

That Liberty Dollar guy has jacked up the price to pay for his lawsuit...i read that s why it's so high. tones

 

[Sarge]

I was not trying to slam Liberty dollar. I agree having the coins confiscated was bad and I feel for all involved.

The point I was making was if one buys substantial supplies of silver while down, like now, the coins could be sold much closer to what one pays for a silver coin at the local shop. The minter would also gain as the value of silver etc. goes up having bought adequate supplies at the lower prices.

I don't like to go to the local shop due to gas, having to wait in line etc. On the other hand, I would go to the local shop before paying double or more the price.

 

[Dr.3D]

I was not trying to slam Liberty dollar. I agree having the coins confiscated was bad and I feel for all involved.

The point I was making was if one buys substantial supplies of silver while down, like now, the coins could be sold much closer to what one pays for a silver coin at the local shop. The minter would also gain as the value of silver etc. goes up having bought adequate supplies at the lower prices.

I don't like to go to the local shop due to gas, having to wait in line etc. On the other hand, I would go to the local shop before paying double or more the price.

The problem with buying substantial supplies of silver is that it takes capital. The same capital might be used for other purposes and thus someone would not consider putting that much money into silver as it may in fact go down rather than up.

In the long run, of course silver it will go up, but tying up that much capital in something is not what people usually want to do just to benefit others who might want to buy it later at slightly above spot. After fabrication costs, it would be a losing proposition. The person who would buy a substantial supply of silver would be farther ahead just selling the silver when the spot price went up.

 

[cbc58]

Gedion - are you saying that you are going to be minting coins for sale?

Wouldn't it be easier to contract with a place like the Franklin mint or some other mint to have coins made?

 

[porcupine]

The problem on my end is that they are charging $50.00 for an ounce of silver. Current spot price is $16.51.

Exactly. That's ridiculous.

 

[porcupine]

I agree..and I dont' even think it is ethical to charge so much over spot. tones

Ethical? If both buyer and seller agree, what's unethical about it? If I see $50 of value in a LD (maybe because I want to support them or maybe because I think it's a nice collectors piece or maybe because I think the LD brand adds $30 of value to a $17 piece of silver), who is anyone else to judge? Ethical??!

 

[porcupine]

Gedion - are you saying that you are going to be minting coins for sale?

Wouldn't it be easier to contract with a place like the Franklin mint or some other mint to have coins made?

In New Hampshire, we're making a system of "backyard mints" where anyone can cheaply buy what's needed to mint their own "shire silver." The design is made to be clearly distinguishable from any Federal Reserve currency (Shire Silver is actually square) and, with the critical mass of libertarians amassing with the Free State Project, we're hoping to have the critical mass necessary to achieve some kind of a silver economy (if businesses know that there are those that will accept shire silver as change, they'll be more likely to accept it in payment). The backyard mint will make it impossible to raid one location and shut down the whole operation. It's decentralizing what Liberty Dollar started.

Shire Silver will have no monetary markings. Just its weight in grams (ounces are too big). The added value of the minting will come from the smaller mint denominations and the fact that it's easily recognizable.

Easy and cheap ways to check the weight and purity are being developed as we speak and may be given freely to businesses.


Anyway, that's what us members of the Free State Project are doing in New Hampshire. What are you doing?!

 

[cbc58]

i may be wrong here... but I see a fundamental flaw in issuing currency in silver.... which is that if you issue it when silver is $15/oz. and the price drops to $10/oz. .. then the value is diminished.

i understand that the coins will have face values... but what consumer would (or retailer) would take the risk unless the system was universal?

 

[porcupine]

i may be wrong here... but I see a fundamental flaw in issuing currency in silver.... which is that if you issue it when silver is $15/oz. and the price drops to $10/oz. .. then the value is diminished.

i understand that the coins will have face values... but what consumer would (or retailer) would take the risk unless the system was universal?

Money didn't used to have "face values." That's a new development that came from fiat currency and I think any alternative currencies should get away from it.

Silver may go up or down. The value of paper never changes. It's always zero. In addition, even if you go on the fiat value printed on the dollar, it almost always goes down. Silver, on the other hand, usually goes up in relation to the dollar (not because the silver is worth more but because the dollar is worth less).

In the end, the fact that silver can be used industrially to make needed things means it always has some worth.