Libertarians

[Johncjackson]

there were 15,000 libertarians in iowa?

No.

 

[stevedasbach]

The original question about why libertarians will not vote for Ron Paul is interesting. It is a good question, and it goes to the heart of issues involved here.

There is no way in the world a hard-core Libertarian (an LP card carrying type of libertarian) would vote for Ron Paul. Let me share just a few examples with you ...

Ron Paul Campaign(the Evangelical Republicans who run his campaign):
1. Pray. At every campaign event.
2. Pledge of Allegiance. At every campaign event.
3. Flags and National Anthems. At every campaign event.
4. Is 'pro-life' even for rape & incest.


Here is what your average LP person is into:
1. Never praying in public. (plenty of religious people - but this is not something that carried over into the public arena)
2. Will recite the Pledge of Alliegiance if you hold a loaded gun to their head and threaten them with death. I suppose a few might say it, but a "pledge of alligiance" is pretty far removed from what libertarians are into.
3. Consider the US Flag to be a religious symbol - as in government worship. (a symbol of an occupation government, or symbol of the conquerer) On many occasions, I have seen the libertarians pick up any US flags in the room and remove them prior to conducting LP party business.
4. Is pro-choice. The official LP Platform is in fact, pro-choice. (but of course, no tax money for the topic)


In a nutshell:
Libertarians would find it diffucult to wade thru the prayers/pledges/flags provided by Evangelical Republicans.

Bunk! I'm a life member of the LP (since 1979) -- served 13 years on the LNC including five years as national chair -- ran for office seven times as a Libertarian -- have been a delegate to every national convention since 1981. I am also a maxed out donor to Ron Paul and proudly attended Paul's rally in Greenville. I recite the pledge every morning in my classroom (no, we're not required to recite it along with the announcements). Oh, and I'm an Eagle Scout, former Cubmaster, and have led numerous flag ceremonies, pledges, etc.

Libertarians are just as diverse as Ron Paul's supporters.

 

[Johncjackson]

Because a lot of people in the Libertarian party (not all, by far though) feel Dr. Paul is not pure enough for them.

And there are barely 15,000 LP members in the entire COUNTRY.

 

[LinearChaos]

Because a lot of people in the Libertarian party (not all, by far though) feel Dr. Paul is not pure enough for them.

Translation: The STATO strain of Beltway Libertarian dislike Ron Paul because Paul isn't a true believer when it comes to abortion and sodomy.

 

[loupeznik]

I'm a LP member and support Paul. Most LP members do support Paul. However, libertarian-minded voters are across the idealogical spectrum. It seems to me Paul's advertising in Iowa was targeting the Huckabee voter while the independents decidedly overhwelmingly to go over to the Dem side and vote for Obama. Paul did great for those independents who did decide to go to the Repub side and vote. Just not enough of Iowa independents decided to go the Repub route.

Indeed. We lost votes to Obama not Huckabee. We will never win evangelicals so long as we want people to own their own bodies. We can't win them without loosing our principles. We can however, win people who want change. We can win people who want to stop the war. There are many things we can win Obama supports with.

 

[loupeznik]

Bunk! I'm a life member of the LP (since 1979) -- served 13 years on the LNC including five years as national chair -- ran for office seven times as a Libertarian -- have been a delegate to every national convention since 1981. I am also a maxed out donor to Ron Paul and proudly attended Paul's rally in Greenville. I recite the pledge every morning in my classroom (no, we're not required to recite it along with the announcements). Oh, and I'm an Eagle Scout, former Cubmaster, and have led numerous flag ceremonies, pledges, etc.

Libertarians are just as diverse as Ron Paul's supporters.

+1

 

[familydog]

Translation: The STATO strain of Beltway Libertarian dislike Ron Paul because Paul isn't a true believer when it comes to abortion and sodomy.

Yes. And the people I was refering to feel the LP is too moderate. That says it all.

 

[DaddyO]

"I have never voted for a Presidential Candidate who got more than 0.4% of the vote."

lol, I'm right there with you. I've been a Libertarian party member for 25 years and RP is the best thing to happen to the Libertarian movement in a long time. I feel everyones pain about Iowa but I have to laugh a little bit because I grew up in the state and love it in general but it's politics on the Republican side are absolutely stacked against a candidate like RP winning. Forget Iowa it means very little.

Just my opinion but I think the campaign is doing the right thing on concentrating on NH. After that I would throw every scrap of money at the Western and Mountain West states. Just my opinion but the Libertarian message plays best out in the West better than anywhere else in the country except for maybe NH.

 

[Paul10]

....

 

[danberkeley]

Not really. Obviously no Republican is going to vote for a Libertarian candidate for the Senate and Paul was supposed to garner 8-11% of the Republican vote in Iowa. He only got 10% Where is all the rest of his "hidden" support?

it's still being counted by the Iowa GOP. many precints arent done reporting.

 

[RonPaulCult]

Here is a detailed post I had before Iowa that breaks down the Libertarians in that state:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=72353

They did NOT come through for us. Or if they did then the campaign did an HORRIBLE job of spreading the message.

 

[jabrownie]

You're assuming that all the votes for Badnarik and/or Peroutka came from Libertarians. Personally, I am a Republican, but I voted for Peroutka in 2004 b/c I was sick of Bush and couldn't bring myself to support Kerry.

 

[Akus]

Those are delusional individuals if that is the case. There is no single issue to vote on with Paul. The benefits our political process will receive under his Presidency would be amazing for the Libertarians. They can only hope someone will rise again in four years on a national platform like Paul has. And if this happens it will be on the backs of this grassroots movement not their own.

I would call into question any true "big L" who did not recognize this.

you're preaching to the choir

 

[Psyclone]

I am on the Executive Committee of the Libertarian Party of Iowa, and our entire membership list is less than 150 people. With one exception, every member of the Libertarian Party of Iowa I know caucused for Dr. Paul last night. Thus, I would say that the 15,000 number is totally crazy and also the assertion that Libertarian Party members are too "pure" to vote for Dr. Paul is also totally crazy.

 

[loupeznik]

This whole thread is fighting straw men. Show us this Libertarian and we will debate them, but otherwise you are putting words in their mouths.

I am a Libertarian and I plan to be a delegate for Ron Paul in the RP.

 

[LFOD]

I am on the Executive Committee of the Libertarian Party of Iowa, and our entire membership list is less than 150 people. With one exception, every member of the Libertarian Party of Iowa I know caucused for Dr. Paul last night. Thus, I would say that the 15,000 number is totally crazy and also the assertion that Libertarian Party members are too "pure" to vote for Dr. Paul is also totally crazy.

Doh! More reality-based reporting. You're messing with people's taste for wild baseless speculative threads, man. (keep it up)

 

[weary]

I am one of the 150. I did caucus for Ron Paul.

Ron Paul in 1988 was pro-choice & never discussed his religion.

How 20 years later he became intertwined with the evengelical christians is a mystery, and it was unfortunate for his campaign in Iowa. Many independent minded secular types listened to those "god & abortion" advertisements produced by the evangelical leaders of Ron Paul's campaign and RAN THE OTHER WAY.

 

[stevedasbach]

I am one of the 150. I did caucus for Ron Paul.

Ron Paul in 1988 was pro-choice & never discussed his religion.

How 20 years later he became intertwined with the evengelical christians is a mystery, and it was unfortunate for his campaign in Iowa. Many independent minded secular types listened to those "god & abortion" advertisements produced by the evangelical leaders of Ron Paul's campaign and RAN THE OTHER WAY.

Ron Paul was not pro-choice in 1988. His view then was the same as it is now. He agreed not to promote his views on abortion in the campaign because they contradicted the LP Platform. When asked, he gave his position and stated that it differed from the party's pro-choice position.

He still rarely discusses his religion.

I agree that leading with abortion was a mistake. If for no other reason, it doesn't provide contrast with the other candidates.

 

[mtmedlin]

The original question about why libertarians will not vote for Ron Paul is interesting. It is a good question, and it goes to the heart of issues involved here.

There is no way in the world a hard-core Libertarian (an LP card carrying type of libertarian) would vote for Ron Paul. Let me share just a few examples with you ...

Ron Paul Campaign(the Evangelical Republicans who run his campaign):
1. Pray. At every campaign event.
2. Pledge of Allegiance. At every campaign event.
3. Flags and National Anthems. At every campaign event.
4. Is 'pro-life' even for rape & incest.


Here is what your average LP person is into:
1. Never praying in public. (plenty of religious people - but this is not something that carried over into the public arena)
2. Will recite the Pledge of Alliegiance if you hold a loaded gun to their head and threaten them with death. I suppose a few might say it, but a "pledge of alligiance" is pretty far removed from what libertarians are into.
3. Consider the US Flag to be a religious symbol - as in government worship. (a symbol of an occupation government, or symbol of the conquerer) On many occasions, I have seen the libertarians pick up any US flags in the room and remove them prior to conducting LP party business.
4. Is pro-choice. The official LP Platform is in fact, pro-choice. (but of course, no tax money for the topic)


In a nutshell:
Libertarians would find it diffucult to wade thru the prayers/pledges/flags provided by Evangelical Republicans.

I am not certain that you know many Liberatarians. I have been a dues paying member since '94 and I have no problem if they want to pray. I will say the pledge ANYTIME that ANYBODY wants to say it because I LOVE this country and am loyal to her. I have never considered the US flag to be a religious symbol but as a symbol of the country that I would give my life to defend. Lastly, the LP isnt Pro Choice and neither am I. In a nutshell, you do not know what the fuck you are talking about.

 

[weary]

mtmedlin -

Read the LP platform so you can have a clue. And I would like for you to pray for me.

Cut & pasted from LP Platform:
"... we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."