Libertarians should stop insulting cops

[Mini-Me]

Post # 107 wasn't even for you either. Geeze what a lame and pathetic goober.

I think our conversation is over.

WAKE UP! GROW UP! GET REAL!

Perhaps you should wake up yourself and realize that your posts are sometimes ambiguous in terms of their intended recipients...mainly because you can't be bothered to formulate a real argument and you instead rely on generic insults and condescending linkage. Post count aside, your behavior for the last half of this thread was entirely troll behavior.

 

[The Moog Magician]

I'm sorry, but I am unable to accept nor believe your claimed position on the Nolan chart. Do you vote? If so, you are a statist.<IMHO>

What is your opinion of the Non Aggression Principle? Does the state aggress? Obvious answer, YES.

Of course cops ( AKA "law enforcement" officers ) are human and make mistakes. DUH!! ALL people are and do. That is precisely why they should not be given too much power. Most people can not handle too much power. It tends invariably to corrupt them.

Weak ideology? By what moral right and / or legitimate authority do some people get to rule other people against their will? Simple question, simple answer.<IMHO>

Aw go ahead, I can handle rude. I am here because I like Ron Paul and have now for decades. Also because I choose to be here. And yet Ron Paul also clearly supports LRC. As do I. Curious, no? Actually it will be necessary to pass through Ron Paul's world on the road to get to mine. Currently humanity is STILL being dragged in the exact opposite direction.

Ron has a campaign slogan of "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity". Sign me up. I'm a HUGE fan of all three of those. The state is NOT.

An anarchist is anyone that wants less government than you do.

Thanks!

"The system is corrupt, beyond redemption, and is not worthy of my support!"

Ok, I guess I'm a statist because I believe in the state existing and functioning. Of course the state is aggressive. In a Republic, however, this aggressive use of power is justified as long as it is in the confines of our constitution, which it is 99.99% of the time. You take a few you tube videos and decide you think cops are mechanisms of fascism. Come on, have some intellectual honesty--are you really that impressionable? Fascism has no legitimacy because it is neither democratic nor Republican. Citizens have absolutely NO power in resisting police power in a fascist state. In a republic, this police power is constantly checked by the people. In America, police are held accountable for what they do. Civil rights violations will get an officer disciplined, fired, and/or prosecuted very easily. And his case will be blown as well. It happens all the time. Cops are way more restricted than they have ever been. They can't go rambo like in the "old days." There is so much media scrutiny and brutal defense attorneys on every use of force incident.

People can absolutely force other people to do things. By living in your state, you are implicitly agreeing to follow its laws whether or not you agree with them because they were decided via majority rule. If you cannot handle that, either move or get over it. These are basic American and classical republican principles. Your vision of America is not one of peace, prosperity, or freedom because in your world, no one is there to protect life and property from the powerful and wealthy. AKA anarchism.

You say most people cannot handle a lot of power? Try NO ONE can handle power. That's the point of a republic. Your main problem is you blow police brutality and corruption up way beyond what it really is. Do you really trust the media that much, especially YOU TUBE??

You put way too much to blame for too much power on governmental actors. If this was a fascist state, you'd be right. Common people have power here; they just ignorantly, yet willingly give it up for a false sense of security. America once had a tiny government, but the American people, in our weakness, have failed to uphold it to its constitutional bounds. We are to blame for our own predicament.

The system is not corrupt. The Constitution is beautiful. It's our own damn fault the federal government is such a beast. I too am implicit. Cops are just doing their jobs--catching criminals the best they can. Think of it like a natural force. If a republican society believes this force is too strong, it would be foolish to not counteract it. Your beef is not with cops or with politicians, but with the American people.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Ok, I guess I'm a statist because I believe in the state existing and functioning

Honesty first, that's good.

In a Republic, however, this aggressive use of power is justified as long as it is in the confines of our constitution, which it is 99.99%

Tell that to the dead Iraqis.

You take a few you tube videos and decide you think cops are mechanisms of fascism

It is NOT a "few" videos.

This is indicative of a system wide shift, orchestrated at the federal level. This is the new training dynamic. I've seen it first hand right in my own small town. The old 'force continuum" is out, the new model, "classified" for the most part, says any force, up to and including deadly force, can be used at any level of engagement, for whatever reason, or no reason whatsoever, and will be backed up the chain of the command.

Fascism has no legitimacy because it is neither democratic nor Republican

Correct, since fascism is an economic system. What we are talking about here is untrammeled "authoritarianism".

In America, police are held accountable for what they do. Civil rights violations will get an officer disciplined, fired, and/or prosecuted very easily

Yes, if any are prosecuted. Capital punishment cases are supposed to be the most rigorously reviewed and appealed criminal cases within the justice system. Since 2000, literally hundreds of people have been released from death row, and that is not including the cases where "technical errors" were made. These are cases were the alleged could not have possibly committed the crime, but was railroaded into a death sentence by corrupt and/or lazy prosecutors and cops.

They can't go rambo like in the "old days

This man is the mayor of Berwyn Heights, Maryland.

His home was raided by people like this.

They shot his dogs, vicious Black Labradors, and forced the family on the floor in the dog's blood for hours while harassing them.

Sounds like Rambo to me. And this happens every single day, many times to the wrong people in the wrong house.

By living in your state, you are implicitly agreeing to follow its laws whether or not you agree with them because they were decided via majority rule

So if the majority agrees and passes a law that say, all Jews must report for work camp assignment, that's OK?

So clichéd right? But it illustrates the concept of "unjust law". The people retain the right to resist unjust law and the enforcers of same.

You say most people cannot handle a lot of power? Try NO ONE can handle power. That's the point of a republic. Your main problem is you blow police brutality and corruption up way beyond what it really is. Do you really trust the media that much, especially YOU TUBE??

We longer have a republic, we haven't for a long time now.

No, I don't. 1 video or report...meh, just an anomaly. 5000 is a trend. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

The system is not corrupt. The Constitution is beautiful. It's our own damn fault the federal government is such a beast.

The system is not corrupt...The system is a beast. Which is it?

Are cops not citizens as well? They are on the front line of all this.

"Just following orders" and "just trying to make a living" are not excuses.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Videotape shows man beaten by Denver Police

DENVER - The Denver District Attorney's office has dropped its case against a man who was facing three years in prison for assault, after 9Wants to Know obtained and showed prosecutors a videotape of the man's arrest.

The Denver Police Department has also started an internal investigation.

On the video, which was shot outside Coors Field on the home opener of the Colorado Rockies game on April 4, undercover Denver Police detectives hit, kick and choke John Heaney.

"They both unloaded on me and I started seeing stars and the whole thing was just bam, bam, bam after that," said Heaney. "Someone had a chokehold and they were all on top of me and I couldn't breathe and I thought I was going to die."

After three detectives had Heaney facedown on the ground with his hands behind his back, the video shows undercover Det. Michael Cordova pull Heaney's hair, lift up his head and slam it into the ground, breaking two of his teeth on the cement.

Heaney says he had to have two teeth capped.

"I didn't know my teeth were broken until I was spitting out loose pieces," he said.

Heaney was charged with second-degree assault on a police officer and criminal mischief after one of the officer's sunglasses were broken during the arrest. The officers claim Heaney rode his bicycle through a red light at 20th and Blake Streets and then punched Cordova in the nose.

Heaney, who didn't know the men were undercover police officers, says he only flipped Cordova's Rockies hat off of his head.

Heaney says he was biking past Coors Field on April 4 to visit his terminally ill mother in a nursing home nearby.

Detectives Cordova and James Costigan, both on the Denver vice-narcotics squad, were working undercover in a scalping ring. Although 9NEWS is naming the officers, we have chosen not to show their faces to protect their undercover identities.

A local sports TV crew was videotaping the opening day of the Rockies when they saw and videotaped the arrest.

"The thing that kind of made everybody gasp was when the officer took the back of the guy's head and shoved it to the ground on his face," said TV producer Greg Prinkey. "He was not resisting. It was totally uncalled for."

When Prinkey saw men beating Heaney, he ran in to stop the fight. The video shows that's when the officers yelled, "Hey, we're cops! Get the (expletive) out of here!"

Prinkey gave the videotape of the arrest to 9NEWS.

"Had I not been rolling the camera, and no one else was rolling the camera, it might have just been swept under the rug," Prinkey said.

Before the Denver detectives knew about the videotape, they wrote reports and were deposed in court about what happened. Both officers said Heaney was throwing "wild punches" at them, hit the officers in the face and chest and continued to attack them, even when they had him on the ground.

Under oath, Cordova and Costigan also denied knowing anything about Heaney's broken teeth.

Heaney's attorney Lonn Heymann asked Cordova in court, "Was there a point at which somebody slammed his face into the ground?"

Cordova answered, "Absolutely not."

"How did Mr. Heaney's front teeth get broken," asked Heymann.

Cordova replied, "I have not a clue."

"When you start seeing that the officers are making arguments that are directly contradicted by this videotape, it raises questions about how believable the police officers are," Heymann told 9NEWS.

The Denver Police Department did not interview any civilian witnesses in their investigation of Heaney's arrest. However, 9NEWS interviewed three witnesses who all say Heaney did not hit the officers.

"I never saw the bicyclist make any sort of swing at either of the officers," said videographer Jason Jewett.

"He definitely didn't start it, that's for sure," said Nick Heckman, a still photographer for MileHigh Sports Magazine, who took four pictures of the arrest.

A hospital report and X-rays of Cordova's nose show it was not bleeding or broken after the arrest. Cordova claims it was red and swollen.

The Denver Police Department said Monday it is conducting an internal investigation of the arrest.

"The investigation is underway, and no conclusions should be drawn until all of the facts are available and the totality of the circumstances can be considered," said Division Chief of Investigations Dave Fisher. "Everyone in our country is initially entitled to a presumption of innocence, even police officers."

In addition to the injuries to his teeth, Heaney says he suffered neck and shoulder injuries.

Cordova and Costigan are still on duty while the investigation is underway. Once the police investigation is complete, it will be sent to the Denver District Attorney's office for review.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=97466&catid=339

Watch here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eIlr0UGcI0

Listen closely at about 5:20 and you can hear this man's teeth break as he gets slammed, in handcuffs, face first in the concrete.

Happens every day.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Ok, I guess I'm a statist because I believe in the state existing and functioning. Of course the state is aggressive. In a Republic, however, this aggressive use of power is justified as long as it is in the confines of our constitution, which it is 99.99% of the time. You take a few you tube videos and decide you think cops are mechanisms of fascism. Come on, have some intellectual honesty--are you really that impressionable? Fascism has no legitimacy because it is neither democratic nor Republican. Citizens have absolutely NO power in resisting police power in a fascist state. In a republic, this police power is constantly checked by the people. In America, police are held accountable for what they do. Civil rights violations will get an officer disciplined, fired, and/or prosecuted very easily. And his case will be blown as well. It happens all the time. Cops are way more restricted than they have ever been. They can't go rambo like in the "old days." There is so much media scrutiny and brutal defense attorneys on every use of force incident.

Bullshit dude. You have no clue or idea of who you are talking to. I've been libertarian for 36 years now. How about you?

People can absolutely force other people to do things. By living in your state, you are implicitly agreeing to follow its laws whether or not you agree with them because they were decided via majority rule. If you cannot handle that, either move or get over it. These are basic American and classical republican principles. Your vision of America is not one of peace, prosperity, or freedom because in your world, no one is there to protect life and property from the powerful and wealthy. AKA anarchism.

Screw it. Sure they can, at gunpoint and under other means of force, coercion and violence or the threat of same. Oh you mean like the system we've got now? When was the last time that a cop or other government agent "protected" your life and / or property from the powerful and wealthy? Our system is a plutocratic oligarchy and it always has been. You may call it a republic if you choose and wish. That doesn't make it one. BTW, how'd you become such an expert on anarchism? Learned all about it in your statist "government" school, did you?

You say most people cannot handle a lot of power? Try NO ONE can handle power. That's the point of a republic. Your main problem is you blow police brutality and corruption up way beyond what it really is. Do you really trust the media that much, especially YOU TUBE??

Trust MSM - ZIP. You Tube - ZIP. Nope it's just the institutionalized barbarism that really pisses me off. That and the other barbarians that merely support and perpetuate it.

You put way too much to blame for too much power on governmental actors. If this was a fascist state, you'd be right. Common people have power here; they just ignorantly, yet willingly give it up for a false sense of security. America once had a tiny government, but the American people, in our weakness, have failed to uphold it to its constitutional bounds. We are to blame for our own predicament.

They get their power from somewhere. And it's not from me. You are to blame. I have NO government. I do just have the TYRANNY and other assorted miscellaneous barbarities from your governments though. Thanks for nothing.

The system is not corrupt. The Constitution is beautiful. It's our own damn fault the federal government is such a beast. I too am implicit. Cops are just doing their jobs--catching criminals the best they can. Think of it like a natural force. If a republican society believes this force is too strong, it would be foolish to not counteract it. Your beef is not with cops or with politicians, but with the American people.

The US Constitution is DEAD. Haven't you heard? Your guys killed it. Nope, my beef is just with the voters. Other than them the vast MAJORITY of the American people are just fine.

BTW, not that you'll even bother to read them, because they just might interfere with your instilled ongoing statist "brainwash" programming:

The Illegality, Immorality, and Violence of All Political Action
http://users.aol.com/xeqtr1/voluntaryist/vopa.html

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]You're an Anarchist[/FONT]
Me too, says Butler Shaffer. So are all civilized men, in practice.


"We shall get nowhere until we start by recognizing that political behavior is largely non-rational, that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed before it can be cured. " -- George Orwell

 

[DamianTV]

Beef with the voters? Are you serious? You mean when we stand up with 2/3rds of the Nevada GOP and they close the convention to prevent RP from getting any delegates, thats the VOTERS fault?

Oh, and side note, for all of those youtube videos of cops being dicks to people, how many of you have experienced it first hand? Here, I'll just list a couple of mine...

----

Lets see. I was arrested in my front yard on Christmas Eve when I was 15 years old when me and my friend who was staying the night went outside and had a snowball fight at 2am, and stayed in the yard. Yeah, I was really breaking the law then. Cop comes up starts giving us shit, then has the nerve to go up and knock on the door (like I dont live there) and my dad opens the door and tells the cop to go fuck himself because I was on my property. We still had to get a lawyer.

16: Arrested for stealing car stereos that I was hiding in my belly button. Again I was innocent and again had to go to court. Walking to school. Never made it to school. No backpack, no books, just walkin to school. They couldnt even find a victim to press charges.

16: Driving home. Got a flat. Tried to limp home half a mile so I could change the tire. I got pulled over for going 5 miles an hour on the side of the road with my hazards on for obstructing traffic. My spare was flat. Got away with only a fix it ticket, reckless driving, failure to obey the posted speed limit, and nearly arrested for vehicular assault even though there was no one on the side of the road becaues I MIGHT have run someone over. Drivers License: REVOKED.

18 years old, fresh out of boot camp and on leave. Car wont start after I fill it up with gas at the gas station. 9:30 or so. Cop pulls up behind me also to get gas. I ask him if he can give me a jump start, my car is dead. He says no. I called my dad again since it was his car. Cop stays behind me until 10PM then gives both of my friends that were 17 curfew tickets and ARRESTS ME for contributing to the delinquency of a minor, 2 counts.

19. NASNI. Riding a bike from NASNI back to my barracks. Arrested and charged by the military for "drunk and disorderly". At the time, it was legal to serve military persons on base over 18 years old beer but no hard alcohol. And I wasnt drunk. Charged. Convicted. Im now an alcoholic as far as the military is concerned.

19. NASNI (NASNI is Naval Air Station North Island in San Diego, CA). Brought up on charges of sexual harassment and verbal abuse of females for referring to the little room where you fly an airplane with a stick and all the dials guages and buttons as a "COCKPIT".

19: RAPE: Charged with rape of a fellow enlisted female personnel. She got pregnant. My defense: Kind of hard to rape someone when you've been in the brig for the last 3 weeks for the drunk bike riding incident. Investigated further, released from the brig, then charges were dropped. Fuck the military, I quit.

20: I get out of the military and start working at KRNV-TV. I wont explain the rest of the circumstances of how or why I got out of the military but lets just say it was shot down before it even started.

21: Arrested for Aggravated Felony Arson, 4 counts, 1 count drunk and disorderly, 1 count DUI. While still working at the TV station, our station manager invited us all to a business party after work. I went. I had ONE beer. Party was over, I walk back to my car which was at a mall that happened to catch fire. My car was surrounded by 4 fire trucks so I had to drive over one of their hoses to get out. I tried to ask how I could get out of there without damaging any equipment before I even got in my car. Cop standing there. Oh and the General Manager of KRNV, and my boss also standing right there. Cop arrests me on the spot because I was "suspicious" and charged me with the felony arson for "trying to burn down Park Lane Mall". I was at the party the whole time just chatting with everyone I worked with. My boss and the station manager came over and asked what the hell I was under arrest for. Cop basically told him. Station manager got two reporters and a newscrew there to record the entire incident and they both give the cop the viable credible alibi. Cop grows a brain and decides to let me go but Im still a suspect. Ok fine, fire is out and fire trucks have wrapped up their hoses so I can leave, cop orders me not to drive. Dude I've had one beer. Says dont do it. Well Im going home, I've had only one. I get in the car, start the car, and dont even bother to put it in drive so he can run over to his car, pull up behind me, and THEN give me a breathalyzer. Oh look, 0.01 or ONE beer. Station Manager and my boss still standing there, and one newscrew still shooting the event. Cop decides to try to arrest me for DRUNK DRIVING and Drunk and Disorderly, dont forget Im now also the prime supsect in this whole arson thing. Drunk Driving even though I just blew the breathalyzer and PASSED. Station Manager calls the owner of Sunbelt Communications, who happens to be a Lawyer. Cop tries to order the station manager to order the news crew to stop recording. My boss calls the other 3 TV stations. They were on the other side of the building, so now this asshole of a cop has 4 TV crews filming him. They get a quick recap while Im cuffed again with my ass planted firmly on the ground. After about 45 minutes, cop comes over and "lets me off with a warning". Months later, Investigators found that faulty wiring was the cause of the fire in Park Lane Mall. Yeah, that was my fault because of where I parked my car before the fire started and the fire trucks had me trapped with all their hoses.

After 3 months, the GM decided to press harassment charges against the police and launched a full scale investigative report on Reno PD because they had consistently demanded my work schedule and for them to fill out more police reports of what happened that night.

24: Left a bar with my friend. Driving his car and he was plastered, I didnt drink anything that night. I was driving his car and WE were arrested, he was arrested for DUI and I was arrested for Obstruction of Justice because we "switched" seats. Additional charges: failure to provide valid insurance and registration. He was completely passed out and I didnt know where his insurance and registration were at in his car. Ended up being in his pocket. But the charge of switching seats as Obstruction of Justice? Bullshit. I was the god damn designated driver. Friend was still in the military at the time and had to get a Military Lawyer to defend him. If you get a DUI while youre in the military, if you are off base, you can get charged by both civil and military court, double jeopardy. Military dropped the charges finding they were "unreasonable and illogical" and eventually got both of our civil charges dropped. It didnt really help that my buddy puked on the cop. Twice.

27: Civil Charges: Sexual Harassment. I replaced the ballast in 4 or 5 burned out fluorescent lights while in the same room as a bunch of female teachers were doing Pilates. Laughed out of court. Well, I kind of lost my temper and went off on this supreme bitch and told her that if she wasnt so fucking fat I would have just hit on her instead of competely ignoring her. Judge was kind of pissed I blew my lid at the lady but couldnt contain her case of the giggles. Called a recess, came back and just dismissed the case as being frivilous and she was trying to extrort money from my employer. Not exactly the way youre supposed to win a court case but hey it worked.

28: Cop blows a red light and damn near hits me. No lights. I honked at him before I realized he was a cop. He slammed on his breaks, comes back around and pulls me over. I was cited for reckless driving and failure to yeild to an emergency vehicle. Again, dismissed. Talked to the DA, was offered a charge of a lesser sentence, told them to kiss my ass and demanded to see the video, politely, she just said forget it and dropped the charges on the spot, never even went to trial.

29: Changing lanes on the freeway. Tried to merge right and a cop goes flying passed me with his breaks on. He had to have been going about a hundred because when I checked, he was still a very safe distance behind me. So after I go a bit passed him, yep you guessed it, right up on my ass, pull the fuck over. Cited for failure to yeild while changing lanes, failure to use a turn signal, failure to yeild to an emergency vehicle during an emergency en route (again, this is starting to become very familiar, he hits me its MY fault because he is an emergency vehicle) oh and if he was "EN ROUTE" he wouldnt have bothered to have pulled my ass over. I fought the ticket and tried to press charges against him for reckless driving. They wouldnt go for it. Civil court wouldnt even accept the charge that I tried to press against him. So when I went to court, I made damn sure not to waive a single one of my rights. Come back a couple weeks later, extended, few more weeks and finally get my TRIAL date and I made him show the video. I was offered a "lesser offense" by the DA but I had to politely refuse the fuck out of that. Oh and here comes the video. Cop gets on the freeway. Hits the gas as I started changing lanes, swerves around me, with NO LIGHTS, and I DID use my fucking blinker as the video provided undeniable proof that I did, he was going 105 and just got on the freeway and was trying to "get around me". Case dismissed and all charges dropped. The cop was given a warning by the judge in the courtroom to basically not drive recklessly and try to blame it on someone else. I tried again to press charges against this fucking piece of shit cop. Denied.

30: Mothers boyfriend blows his brains out in her house. I get there, bunch of cops, she's in complete hysteria, and they want to arrest her and charge her with murder, so teh very first thing the cops did was to run a test on her hands for POWDER BURNS. Nope she doesnt have any so she didnt pull the trigger. Uh, no shit. Then they ran a test on MY HANDS for powder burns because I didnt get along real well with her boyfriend. Bingo, wow my life just gets better and better. Now I am the prime suspect in a MURDER investigation, even though I dont have any powder burns. Oh wait, they found his suicide note. Suicide occured approximately 3 hours before either of us arrived. Viable alibi's provided. Investigation against my mother and I for MURDER and conspiracy to commit murder were dropped. I again attempted to press charges. Denied. Yeah. Im a fucking murderer now as well as a sex offender and a sexual harasser cuz I said cockpit to a girl and a delinquent, oh and saw some girls doing pilates with my head stuck in a ceiling looking at wires.

2 months ago. Pulled over for going 90 in a 70. Took a photo of my GPS's reported MAX speed for the last 900 miles.

Im in the process of fighting this, as usual, because of typical police lying out their fucking asses.

----

End of stories. Well, so far that I've experienced. Now that I come to think of it, every single time I have ever had to deal with a cop at all, in any way shape or form, they were ALL OF THEM EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM FUCKING COMPLETE AND TOTAL LYING ASSHOLES. My sister works as a programmer for the DA here. She got transferred to lead developer at the Jail. She has apparently found out the hard way that every cop she has met is a complete and total ass, and also says that every computer there has to be locked to keep the cops from stealing parts out of the computers. Boy that made me feel so much better. My confidence in the police has been restored.

So, let me ask the cops this, with treatment like this, every single fucking time, why is it that even when I try to cooperate, keep my mouth shut, dont say anything, obey the fucking laws, use my god damn blinkers, go the speed limit, and not MURDER people, why are the cops such complete and total assholes to us? And fuck the youtube videos cuz thats just the shit that we have caught on tape. What do you assholes get away with when you are not on camera? And most importantly, why the fuck should I show any cop an ounce of respect when they try to slap the cuffs on me walking out the door for some over the top beyond ridiculus charge? Why do you deserve one iota of respect from us? Cops are the bullies in high school that took it to a whole new fucking level. They are corrupt. They are liars. They make shit up to make themselves look good. They try to bury evidence. They are out to make your lives as miserable as humanly possible. Is it a wonder why we have more people in jail than any other country, ever? Do they sincerely believe that any extra powers that are granted to them will not immediately be completely and utterly abused? Have you ever seen a cop actually doing his job? Hey look, that guy just smashed out a car window and got in, oh shit there goes a speeder, 2 miles an hour over, wooh wooh pull the fuck over! RENO 911 at your service! Yes I live in Reno.

WHY SHOULD I HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR THE POLICE?

Anyone else got any nasty stories about how a cop tried to railroad them that they would like to share?

 

[Truth Warrior]

Yep, serious as hell. Your system, your problems. You really should have known and understood that the game is "rigged", even BEFORE you chose to play.<IMHO> Just go ahead now and "fix" it.

 

[Mini-Me]

Beef with the voters? Are you serious? You mean when we stand up with 2/3rds of the Nevada GOP and they close the convention to prevent RP from getting any delegates, thats the VOTERS fault?

Oh, and side note, for all of those youtube videos of cops being dicks to people, how many of you have experienced it first hand? Here, I'll just list a couple of mine...

----

<snipped out all the good parts for space reasons>

I just have to say...that was one of the most intense posts I've ever read. The sheer number of run-ins you've had with cops strains credulity for a person like me, but I'm not in any position to cast doubt on your story. Either you're a supremely unlucky person, the cops are particularly bad in your area, or you're the scariest-looking dude on the planet.

I've never had any particularly horrible experiences with cops, but I definitely try to avoid them wherever I go. I do regularly see them driving recklessly, and occasionally they'll tail me on the highway and ride my ass in the right lane, presumably trying to scare me into speeding to get away from them, so they can nail me with a ticket. One time I was sitting at a red light in the left-most left turn lane at an intersection, and a cop comes flying up two lanes to my right, in the right turn lane, and runs the red light turning left from the wrong lane...no lights or sirens. Of course, he's a cop, so nobody will ever call him on risky shit like that, and if there's any accident, he can always blame it on someone else. In high school, an English teacher once told us that a cop had backed into her at a light and made it out like she rear-ended him. These kind of stories seem exceedingly common.

I've had some minor run-ins with cops in person, but I've never been arrested for anything and those particular cops were never unusually nasty like the ones in Reno apparently are...I imagine the problem might stem from your police chief, who's probably a supreme asshole who purposely hires people like him.

Maybe if I got out more, I'd run into more trouble. Who knows? Still, I'm shocked by just how many bad experiences you've had.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

bad experiences is what we are calling it then? lol...

I have a few other ways to word those "Experiences"

Maybe if I got out more, I'd run into more trouble. Who knows? Still, I'm shocked by just how many bad experiences you've had.

 

[IRO-bot]

My god DamianTV, that is....well...there are no words for that!!!

 

[pcosmar]

Reading through this thread is highly disgusting,,, Both from the actions of Police and those that would justify the abuse.
The continued abuses will have the affect of eliminating respect for all LEO, the good along with the bad.

I feel sorry for those few good Officers.

For those that would defend these Authoritarian animals, I offer a reality check.

Some stuff I found and collected.

Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest

�Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting
officer's life if necessary.� Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This
premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the
case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: �Where the
officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally
accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with
very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right
to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What
may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter
in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been
committed.�

�An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without
affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction,
and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the
arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will
be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.� Housh v. People, 75 111.
491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v.
Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau,
241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

�When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right
to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by
force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense,
his assailant is killed, he is justified.� Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80;
Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

�These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an
arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by
the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private
individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.� Jones v. State,
26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State,
43 Tex. 93, 903.

�An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to
be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in
defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and
battery.� (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

�Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case,
the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer
and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.� (State v.
Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

�One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as
he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus
it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an
officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without
resistance.� (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

�Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In
his own writings, he had admitted that �a situation could arise in which
the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various
branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.� There would be
no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the
Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded,
�If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by
human institutions.� That was the �ultimate right of all human beings in
extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous
injustice.�� (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford
University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the
case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.

As for grounds for arrest: �The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable,
and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of
the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the
peace.� (Wharton�s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy
v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)

 

[acptulsa]

Wow, pcosmar, what a great set of precedents! I'm keeping this info somewhere safe. Thanks!

 

[Anti Federalist]

Reading through this thread is highly disgusting,,, Both from the actions of Police and those that would justify the abuse.
The continued abuses will have the affect of eliminating respect for all LEO, the good along with the bad.

I feel sorry for those few good Officers.

For those that would defend these Authoritarian animals, I offer a reality check.

Some stuff I found and collected.

+1776!

Good job Pete.

 

[DamianTV]

What I think we are running into is a War of Escalation. I get a bigger gun, you get a bigger gun than mine, so I get an even bigger gun, and so on.

Now despite my post of most of my history, I dont believe I am a bad person. And yes I did ask why I should have any respect for cops, but Im not doing anything to antagonize them to begin with. Once I find myself in a situation with a cop, I just tell them the truth, hey sir, my tire is flat and I live right around the corner there, does that warrant me getting my drivers license revoked at 16? Im just driving my friend home, he is competely wasted and Im the designated driver, so I havent been drinking, I'll take a breathalyzer test if you'd feel better about everyones safety if you'd like. Is being a DD a crime now? Am I somehow approaching the cops wrong? I dont think so. That is one of the reasons Im so pissed about being told that I shouldnt mouth off about cops being jackasses. I believe Im a pretty good person. If I see that you need help, I'll stop and help you. I pay my taxes (regardless if the taxes are lawful or not, that isnt the way to fight and overpower the IRS and win), I have a job, I pay my bills on time. Officer, my battery is dead, do you think I could get a jump start from you? Maybe he mis interpreted that as Sir youre a fucking dick please Rodney King my ass because my car wont start.

And you know, I cant honestly believe that Im the only half way honest decent hard working person in this country and that other people dont get the same rations of shit from the cops over BS reasons. Im sure most everyone here is decent and doesnt even try to not break laws, its just something that doesnt even cross our minds. I cant be unique, and its just insane to think that everyone else in the country with the exclusion of the youtube videos have good run ins with cops. If we didnt have a constitution, I swear I'd be in prison for life several times over for MURDER, RAPE, ARSON, you name it!

As much as I like PCOS's quote there, I think Im better off not reading it as the next time I get in some situation with a cop Im going to be that much more likely to play The War of Escalation and blow it way out of proportion. I mean jesus, is it really too much to ask of a cop, hey I have 3 employees who call all vouge that I have been here at work all day, how could I possibly be a murderer? Look! Im even on camera! And theres the phone call from my mother (if you didnt read my rap sheet, her boyfriend shot himself in the head in her house and she called me).

And for the cops that are good cops, I would normally say something like I'd like to see one, but no, what I'd really like is for every cop to not give ordinary people shit for doing nothing wrong, getting everyone all pissed off and taking it out on the very few good cops in the world.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

insulting any guy carrying a gun, not a real good idea.

lmao!!

 

[Truth Warrior]

lmao!!

Thanks! Yep, that's my general rule of thumb AND guiding principle.

I most usually seek to peacefully terminate our interaction ASAP. So far, so good. I'm still here.

 

[andrewh817]

I wouldn't call a policeman names but I will let him know honestly what I'm feeling if I'm getting shit from him for no reason especially if I have nothing illegal on me. Like a "routine traffic stop" sorry but that's just bullshit.